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  1. #1

    Level 90's for sale at the Blizz Store is a major step towards "pay to win."

    Does selling level 90's at the Blizz Store compromise Wow's integrity? Is the starting line of a pay to Win format being drawn in the sand?

    Every major feature of every single xpac created a snowball effect and impacted the game in unforeseen ways in future xpacs. From frost badges in heroic dungeons to watch TV while I sort of go afk in LFR to looting epics on the Timeless Isle, trends in Wow compound into monsters with the epic abilities of a Raid Boss .

    What kind of monster does selling level 90's at the Blizz Store create, watch the video and let me know your thoughts.


  2. #2
    Why care? leveling takes 0 skill, just time grind. It isn't pay to win

  3. #3
    Again with the slippery slope argument. Please.

    There's already been handfuls of threads arguing this and it's always been wrong. As it will always be wrong.
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  4. #4
    Pit Lord
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    i dont see the connection from badges in Wrath to LFR as you claim. badges lead to VP. thats the end. leveling thru the same vanilla and even worse, BC content, is just a drag when its some people's 8-10 or even 12th time. you could ask for a prerequisite of at least one max level toon before being allowed to buy others and id be ok with that. but as it is now.. i just dont care if a new player can buy a 90 as long as i can. its a side effect that im willing to accept.

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer Kathranis's Avatar
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    If World of Warcraft is pay to win for selling level boosts (largely to people who already have alts), then so is pretty much every MMO on the market. I can't think of a cash shop supported MMO that doesn't have some sort of leveling enhancer.

    Hell, EverQuest 2 recently added purchasable level 85 "heroic character" boosts, and the response was actually quite positive after it was implemented.

  6. #6
    Eh...I could see it being maybe considered "pay to win" if this was vanilla and they sold level 50's or 55's or something like that. I think the reasoning behind selling level 90s is that for a new player you need to level through all of vanilla, tbc, wotlk, cata, and mop JUST to get to the most recent xpac. I think they're trying to let people who want to play WoD be able to play it off the start.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Karosene View Post
    Again with the slippery slope argument. Please.

    There's already been handfuls of threads arguing this and it's always been wrong. As it will always be wrong.
    What color is the sky in your world? Blizzard is and always has been very methodical with everything they do. This can very possibly be a major step towards a pay to win format along with a sub based format, that kind of greed makes Gordon Geco look like mother Theresa.

  8. #8
    If they were selling level 100 characters on the day WOD released i'd have a problem with it... Selling max level characters during the last tier of an xpac doesn't seem like pay to win to me.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Paula Deen's Avatar
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    We have literally 3 other threads of the exact same thing already. Really this is ridiculous.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    If World of Warcraft is pay to win for selling level boosts (largely to people who already have alts), then so is pretty much every MMO on the market. I can't think of a cash shop supported MMO that doesn't have some sort of leveling enhancer.

    Hell, EverQuest 2 recently added purchasable level 85 "heroic character" boosts, and the response was actually quite positive after it was implemented.
    A notable point and worthy contribution. However, EverQuest 2 is a F2P format, WOW is not. Big difference

  11. #11
    Mechagnome Dooney's Avatar
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    A very simple solution to a major issue - forcing folks thru old content just to play new content. The only thing you miss out on by not leveling is earning gold!!!
    -I lost 6 million of my best friends because of Cataclysm. I will NEVER forgive Blizz for that.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Luxeley View Post
    What color is the sky in your world? Blizzard is and always has been very methodical with everything they do. This can very possibly be a major step towards a pay to win format along with a sub based format, that kind of greed makes Gordon Geco look like mother Theresa.
    Slippery slope and hyperbole....

    It's convenience at a premium. Everyone who buys WoD gets a free 90 boost anyways, if someone wants a few extra then why not give them that option?
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  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Paula Deen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karosene View Post
    Slippery slope and hyperbole....

    It's convenience at a premium. Everyone who buys WoD gets a free 90 boost anyways, if someone wants a few extra then why not give them that option?
    Because thats P2W!11!1!!1!!!!! (notice how I have no argument and just yell loudly? Its the cornerstone of these debates)

  14. #14
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    If the max level cap was level 90, sure. But it's level 100. Not relaly winning anything ten levels behind max level content, are ya.

  15. #15
    Pandaren Monk Mukki's Avatar
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    ITT: People who don't understand what pay to win is.

  16. #16
    Erm maybe they could take the $15 a month we already pay a to make the leveling process something people don't want to pay extra to avoid? Paying extra to play less seems such an odd concept.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Luxeley View Post
    What color is the sky in your world? Blizzard is and always has been very methodical with everything they do. This can very possibly be a major step towards a pay to win format along with a sub based format, that kind of greed makes Gordon Geco look like mother Theresa.
    The amount of tinfoil present in this post is truly astounding. Allowing purchase of a lvl 90 char simply allows someone to start current content with other s who are coming back to the game, or allows people with alts the ability to remove 2 weeks of baseless grinding.

    Pay to win would involve a lvl 100 with current max iLvl gear. Until it is this, your simply grasping at straws.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Marleycat View Post
    Erm maybe they could take the $15 a month we already pay a to make the leveling process something people don't want to pay extra to avoid? Paying extra to play less seems such an odd concept.
    No amount of changes will make the current 1-80 grind anything better for people who have done it on multiple races/classes/factions. I have easily 50 characters across 3 accounts worth of characters who have done the 1-80 grind, and as much as I like lvling/questing, even I have been reduced to dungeon spamming, due to how much I have tired of the same things.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyraena View Post
    The amount of tinfoil present in this post is truly astounding. Allowing purchase of a lvl 90 char simply allows someone to start current content with other s who are coming back to the game, or allows people with alts the ability to remove 2 weeks of baseless grinding.

    Pay to win would involve a lvl 100 with current max iLvl gear. Until it is this, your simply grasping at straws.
    No it isnt. There are iterations of "pay to win" that are not as extreme as you are thinking. The world isnt black and white. Something can be pay to win without the "OMGAWSH FREE CURRENT HEROIC TIER ARMOR" argument thrown around in every thread. You are the people grasping at straws and turning every thread discussion into pure garbage.

    Removing grinding can in fact be considered P2W. Looking at games that have in leveling systems to unlock things from skills and weapons that take months of continual grinding to attain, selling a gun that takes 3 months to grind out would be considered P2W. Even though you can technically unlock it yourself, the instant gratification far outweighs anything else, almost as if it would be stupid to waste 3 months of your life for that said gun.

    If we were still playing vanilla wow, where it took a long time to level. Selling a free level 60 would have been P2W.

    Leveling is one thing in terms of speeding it up. But outright removing it with the click of a button and credit card does seem pretty powerful.
    It would have been pay to win if WOD did not come with the free 90, and if leveling was extremely tedious like in a Korean mmo. But at the moment, it is at the border, and is cutting it really close.
    Last edited by cityguy193; 2014-01-19 at 03:51 AM.

  19. #19
    the person who made this video is just silly like chicken little the sky is falling the sky is falling. come get a grip. even if they were selling max level toons which they are not you still have to know how to play the class and gear the class so its still work you dont just get to win cause you buy a toon.

  20. #20
    I find nothing wrong with getting a level 90 character with the purchase of WoD, Blizzard is a business, businesses like money. They did the same thing with the Scroll of Resurrection and to a lesser extent they did it with RaF.

    If you want to talk about ACTUALLY paying to win then please take aim at all of the various guilds and websites that advertise paid carries through Challenge Modes or even the most up to date raid content. Hell, you can even buy Scarab Lord (plus any other realm first title/mount achievements that exist) accounts or accounts that are decked out in full BiS gear for that certain class or more than one class. Sure this may not be Blizzard that are selling these account or achievements or gear but the Pay to Win model has been active in WoW for some time.

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