Protection Paladins "unable to die?"

[Khiyone]

I've seen this sentiment among many extremely good players; why are protection paladins always chosen for solo tanking in raids? Are they simply an overpowered flavor of the month specialization?


I don't know too much about paladins personally, so please don't use class-specific acronyms.

[Cairhiin]

They can solo tank because they can effectively remove three debuffs with Clemency, and Divine Shield. Plus the fact that solo tanking leads to insane vengeance which in turn leads to very high DPS, and more importantly very high HPS. They're basically half a healer. They don't really take less damage than other tanks however.

[Temp name]

They can solo tank because they can effectively remove three debuffs with Clemency, and Divine Shield. Plus the fact that solo tanking leads to insane vengeance which in turn leads to very high DPS, and more importantly very high HPS. They're basically half a healer. They don't really take less damage than other tanks however.

Depending on the vengeance, they can be more than a healer.

[pld]

They can solo tank because they can effectively remove three debuffs with Clemency, and Divine Shield. Plus the fact that solo tanking leads to insane vengeance which in turn leads to very high DPS, and more importantly very high HPS. They're basically half a healer. They don't really take less damage than other tanks however.

In many solo-tank/high vengeance fights, paladin heals (in terms of raw healing done) are on par/better than healers.

I would point out however, there's a very noticeable gap in DPS/HPS between a solid prot paladin and a "bad" prot paladin. It's not a hard class to play, but it'll definitely reward someone who does their research and plays their class well significantly.

[Deleted]

Yeah but try to miss Shield when boss hits that "hard hitting ability". It's very easy to die as a paladin if it is played wrong.

[Nuckels]

Depending on the vengeance, they can be more than a healer.

This really needs to stop, almost all our healing is just sacred shield absorb, especially after the battle healers nerf.

[Temp name]

This really needs to stop, almost all our healing is just sacred shield absorb, especially after the battle healers nerf.

If you do more healing than a healer, you're still better. ESPECIALLY if it's absorbs.

[Nuckels]

If you do more healing than a healer, you're still better. ESPECIALLY if it's absorbs.

I don't think you get it at all. It's just a constant absorb application with haste that inflates nr's like crazy. It's nice but we dont really replace a healer.

[Cairhiin]

Depending on the vengeance, they can be more than a healer.

Never seen that happen in my raids, the resto druid, and I (Holy Paladin) always beat the Protection Paladin but I definitely believe you.

[Deja Thoris]

If you do more healing than a healer, you're still better. ESPECIALLY if it's absorbs.

It's all bullshit anyway. I'm going to use an example, I'm not trying to prove bears are good or bad, just different:

Pally gets hit and absorbs it, shows as healing on recount. Bear avoids attack altogether, doesn't show on recount. Using this most people just look at recount and shout "nerf palas!"

[Enosh]

Yeah but try to miss Shield when boss hits that "hard hitting ability". It's very easy to die as a paladin if it is played wrong.

as opposed to every other tanking class in this game who can just stand there and take that hard hitting ability while afk?

[Sakki]

Yeah but try to miss Shield when boss hits that "hard hitting ability". It's very easy to die as a paladin if it is played wrong.

Even if you miss it, you still have same mitigation as other tank classes, so it is not even more punishing, it is just better.

[fangless]

They die a lot on Ra-den.

It's sort of like Illidan's Shear, but 100% less forgiving and harder to time :P

[Khiyone]

Never seen that happen in my raids, the resto druid, and I (Holy Paladin) always beat the Protection Paladin but I definitely believe you.

As a healer, this shouldn't even be a question, lol. I guess this is why they're changing Vengeance next patch?

[Bloodydemize]

The heroic ra den kill videos are some of the best examples, I remember watching one where the prot pally tank in the end had 300 something thousand dps and around 110k hps. on my prot pally I've solo tanked encounters and as people say, the vengeance is crazy...

[Nuckels]

The heroic ra den kill videos are some of the best examples, I remember watching one where the prot pally tank in the end had 300 something thousand dps and around 110k hps. on my prot pally I've solo tanked encounters and as people say, the vengeance is crazy...

Brewmasters do more dps on that then prot paladin's and that fight is like the worst example due to the aoe nova counting as vengeance and fatal strike hitting for a 550k avg.

[Tarazet]

It's all bullshit anyway. I'm going to use an example, I'm not trying to prove bears are good or bad, just different:

Pally gets hit and absorbs it, shows as healing on recount. Bear avoids attack altogether, doesn't show on recount. Using this most people just look at recount and shout "nerf palas!"

Also, Tooth & Claw absorbs don't show on WoL or Recount.

[Ninotchka]

I am very much able to die, thank you. I proved it numerous times last night.

It's the debuff removal and the healing splash that makes people think we're overpowered. You can replicate the debuff removal with any other tank if you have a ret or holy paladin in the raid throwing bops on them, but it's more convenient for the prot paladin to remove their own buffs and not lose aggro at inappropriate times.

Paladins are good right now, yes, but I'm living in daily fear of what will happen on the PTR. It seems unlikely that they're going to let us stay the way we are.

[Deleted]

It's all bullshit anyway. I'm going to use an example, I'm not trying to prove bears are good or bad, just different:

Pally gets hit and absorbs it, shows as healing on recount. Bear avoids attack altogether, doesn't show on recount. Using this most people just look at recount and shout "nerf palas!"

Bears T&C damage reduction doesnt show on recount. Warriors safe guard reduction doesnt show on recount, etc.

[Orion Antares]

I think it's mostly that they let Sacred Shield scale too well. It should have only been set to scale with AP or haste, not both. Or at least not a severally with both.