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  1. #381
    Brewmaster Kiry's Avatar
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    I have found raid groups will generally be forgiving a raid leader that is an ass, if he/she knows the classes and boss strat very well. That said, even that lasts only so long before the stress of both the encounter and the yelling get to people.

    I work with a guild that's pretty chill. My only constructive criticism of the group, is more need to speak up when they screw up so we can fix it and move on. but....I would guess that comes from years of being bit at when speaking up.

    Reading these posts, I would be curious how many quit not due to the dynamics of the boss, or the cycle of progression each tier, but how they were treated in guild raiding.
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  2. #382
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    As a raid leader/coleader/captain over the years, I've only ever made one person cry but unfortunately it was on multiple occasions. She had a lot of performance issues and every time I had to deliver criticism or ask her to do something (like gem a piece of armor), there would be tears. There was no yelling or screaming on my part (if anything, I probably sugarcoated out of fear of the meltdown) and my critiques were always in private rather than in front of the raid. I think the fact I even spent months and months trying to help her shows that, if anything, I am too nice, and she was just way too sensitive. She also told her boyfriend once that she was "terrified" of me.

    The absolute worst was when we finally benched her after months and months of ongoing problems. I had already filled her spot her with a more reliable player when she showed up a half an hour late looking for her invite. When told we'd filled the spot already, she stayed on vent ("in case we needed her later") and cried with her PTT while we raided. I think we were all too uncomfortable to boot her from channel when she was already so upset so we just pretended like the game had a new sobbingwoman soundtrack.

    I feel a little guilty even posting this in public but man it was fuckin' weird and uncomfortable.
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  3. #383
    Attenuation on nerfed Heroic hits like a wet noodle now. Last week I pugged H HoF I forgot how to do the dance and just popped some coolies through it.

  4. #384
    Warchief Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rexighar View Post
    I dont raid for this very reason. People getting so worked up when a group fails sucks.
    Again, not all raid teams are like this, actually they are few and far between.

  5. #385
    I am Murloc! roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    Having been in the leader position in the work place for several years. Yelling, is not how to boost productivity, the way to do that is to be blunt, honest, and earn the respect of those you are leading. Yelling might get you short-term gains, but in the end, people will hate you and only try when you are watching. The whole, rule through fear thing. It doesn't work in the long term
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players
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  6. #386
    Mechagnome
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    Simple: Find a guild not run by a couple, and just a group of people who like to raid to avoid all this drama. Heres some examples of experience: I was in a guild which was run by a couple (raiding tho), the other raiders liked when I raided with them, the couple not so much. Once the couple broke up I was allowed to raid whenever I wanted. Now with the guild my guild formed from a result of a big guild (was best on the server) as a result of drama so the guys who I now raid know what drama can do to people.

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiry View Post
    Reading these posts, I would be curious how many quit not due to the dynamics of the boss, or the cycle of progression each tier, but how they were treated in guild raiding.
    I had a great leader, but I have to admit that the stress of trying to scrounge together 3 people every week to fill ongoing deficiencies in the raid roster was a major factor in my quitting the game. Raiding is a real pain on low progression servers.

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by Hogmanlolz View Post
    So last night me and my guild are prepping to do some normal ToT, but first we voted we should do a heroic HoF first to "get a feel" of raiding because it's the first time we all raided together.
    My first reaction: "Ok, sure, let them go warmup on a few bosses and get the hang of raiding with each other."

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogmanlolz View Post
    So we get to Imperial Vizier Zor'lok
    My second reaction: Face. Palm.

    Vizier was easily the hardest heroic in HoF. We had more wipes to him than we did to Empress.. when it was current. (we finished US 17th 10)

    Why you decided to warm up with content harder than Jin'Rohk is beyond me.. but whatever floats your boat lol.

  9. #389
    Gm and yeah made multiple people cry 2 in vanilla 1 in tbc 1 in wotlk and 2 in MOP sadly Cata was to many crybabies and baby sitting so missed out a full house
    and thoose crying was MAINLY from Constructive honest comments only one was cause of wiping us due to a cat had a Fur bal ( was a realm first illidan that cat made us get 2nd so i lost it and told her to stragle the damn thing)



    ^ my forum sig for guild forums
    Last edited by Crabby; 2013-07-05 at 10:25 PM.

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahraa View Post
    Why you decided to warm up with content harder than Jin'Rohk is beyond me.. but whatever floats your boat lol.
    Because the raid leader is a complete and total moron.

    Its not the healers' job to heal people through AVOIDABLE damage, and the raidleader showed how clueless he was by blaming them instead of the idiots that wouldn't move out of fire.

  11. #391
    Raid leaders need to be stern and do what's needed to progress the guild.

    But I never understood the whole verbal abuse and thrashing bit. How does that help? All you're doing is getting someone that was probably already beating themselves up over the wipe even more mottled and demoralized. Then you have to take time to let the person get their composure or potentially replace the person and waste even more raid time.

    Been in guilds where people did that type of crap and it's just not a comfortable environment. Anyone who willingly takes that kind of abuse is equally as pathetic. This is the video game, not the military.

    I've had the option to jump into very high tier guilds but simply haven't because I don't find that type of environment very comfortable to play in. I'll take slower progression to raid with people I enjoy more than go somewhere where I'm walking on egg shells to keep some 28 year old manchild from going ballistic over a game.

  12. #392
    Was back during Ulduar, i was in this guild where the GM, Syn (later on Synti when he went horde and joined Paragon) was raging on one of our mages that were failing on General Vezax, i think it was Shadow Crash he was getting hit by.. now 100% sure by now, been so long, either way he ended up removing him from the raid, while yelling: GTFO my instance, i kinda still feel abit bad for him now, even after all that time. Because while he did fail, surely it could had been handle better ><.
    Last edited by Rasjar; 2013-07-06 at 01:35 AM.

  13. #393
    I have definitely seen my share of drama, whining and bitching from raid leaders.

    But I always avoided playing with massive nerdragers, because I always played for fun.

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by Maeryn View Post
    If you're wasting the time of everyone else by wiping to simple mechanics then yes, you're going to get told off. Be it varying degrees of anger from different strokes of people, not a single one will pat you on the back and try to sympathise with you because that's not solving the issue.
    Also I think its laughable that people support the GM's decision to kick the raid leader because he insulted his other half, this is the reason why couples are hugely frowned upon. A guy is taking his time to fully organized 9/24 other people, which is no easy task within itself and is for the most part a thankless job - But yeah, kick him because you're annoyed over someone close to you getting told off for being a less than stellar player. - But to counterargue my own point this raidleader in question was a fucking moron for taking them to one of the harder bosses during when it was current to practice for what is, a bunch of pretty easy flow normal bosses.
    What's laughable are people who think the RL's behavior was in any way acceptable. And seriously, you're expecting people to have empathy for people who choose to be raid leaders? How about... NO. If someone can't act rationally and hold their temper in difficult circumstances, the shouldn't be a raid leader and I hope to hell they're not in charge of people in the real world.

    The fact that you're calling people "fucking morons" says a lot about your attitude toward other players.

    And to the people constantly spouting nonsense like "This is why I avoid raiding people are so mean!!!1!!" I doubt anyone would WANT you in there guild because you'd be such a over-sensitive baby, despite enjoying the company of most of my guildmates thoroughly I was told upon joining that if I fucked up, people will most likely get annoyed, and there fully within there right to. Thats not to say their going off there nut screaming like some prat, you come across people like that once in a blue moon.
    Nice assumptions there, Sparky.
    Stating an opinion as fact does not make it fact. Opinions are not fact. So don't be stupid and make a fool of yourself by trying to pass off your opinion as fact.

  15. #395
    During Cata we were on Cho'gall and it was right before the raid was almost over. Some guy was talking badly about police officers or something, and one guy in our guild was an ex cop who got shot and had to retire or something. Anyway, I was the last person to talk after this guy was saying stuff about cops (I hadn't really said anything about it though), so the ex cop started chewing me out and yelling at me in Mumble, and his wife started doing the same. It was pretty bad. I started crying as I'm a little bit of a sensitive girl, and I just said in chat "I have to go". They got really mad at me and told me it was the last boss and they were almost finished, so I just sucked it up and cried while healing on Cho'gall, it was awful. After we finished, they found out I had been crying and the ex cop and his wife apologized to me because I guess they were just mad and exploded at me since I was the last one to talk, and the raid leader felt really bad and apologized and stuff too, and everything was fine after that, but I have to tell you, healing while crying can be pretty difficult, but in a weird way, I'm kind of glad I stayed because it was easier to resolve it later and no one was mad at me or anything.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Das View Post
    As a raid leader myself, i've never made anyone cry, and that's because everyone in my raid knows exactly why i yell at them. It's because i want them to improve, and i'm trying to push them to play at 110%, simple as that, and if your epeen dick is so big that when you get called out in raid you start crying, you don't belong in heroic raiding.
    This is how I've always felt about yelling during raids. Usually it is needed to get people to focus from what I've seen. Just as long as it doesn't turn into personal insults, and stays game related, I see nothing wrong with it. I can take being yelled at over screwing up in game, I will take full responsibility for that. But once they make it personal, that is crossing the line and not proactive in a raid.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PetersenIII View Post
    Sensitive people. I know one; she's a very dear friend and it ENRAGES me that she lets no-count fuck-wits upset her so badly.
    http://i.imgur.com/nDqT2HS.png

    I'm just gonna leave this here.
    Last edited by pixelgnomes; 2013-07-06 at 07:36 AM.

  16. #396
    And thats why you dont have little rage kiddies as raid leader or any spot in the leadership of a guild.

  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Apathy - View Post
    Hahahaha oh man as being a former top tier raider yeah I've heard people cry hell even cry to me on skype / vent from time to time. You wanna know how my raid life was life in Woltk? Here I'll give you all a just of it

    Yeah people will cry if they are treated like this.


    Having actually raided with the particular GM in the video for most of Cata, it actually wasn't too bad. Y'know, if you never really messed up. Got to sit back and watch (hear) and laugh to yourself as someone got torn a new one.

  18. #398
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sre View Post
    Having actually raided with the particular GM in the video for most of Cata, it actually wasn't too bad. Y'know, if you never really messed up. Got to sit back and watch (hear) and laugh to yourself as someone got torn a new one.
    Yeah within that era I never really fucked up hence I was given rewards realm first w/e ever like I remember one time the guy went off on this hunter for 2 mins before he talked back and BOOM insta-gkicked

    *shakes head

    Well except this one time on Yogg zero where I blamed going Insane on RNG well that was just me being terrible and deserved to get raged at hahahaha oh good times.

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by Hogmanlolz View Post
    So last night me and my guild are prepping to do some normal ToT, but first we voted we should do a heroic HoF first to "get a feel" of raiding because it's the first time we all raided together. So we get to Imperial Vizier Zor'lok and people are dying to attenuation. I don't know if it was a lack of healer or just badness.
    If people are too stupid to dodge the discs it's not the healers fault at all. he should have talked to those dying from the discs, not to the healers.

  20. #400
    Moderator Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogmanlolz View Post
    So last night me and my guild are prepping to do some normal ToT, but first we voted we should do a heroic HoF first to "get a feel" of raiding because it's the first time we all raided together. So we get to Imperial Vizier Zor'lok and people are dying to attenuation. I don't know if it was a lack of healer or just badness.

    So after the 4th wipe on heroic, he just goes berserk on the healers, which are mostly females, calling them names etc. And then we hear someone crying and its a girl. Anyways someone comes on vent and cusses our raid leader out and kicked him out the guild. It was the GM and the girl was his fiancee nd they were engaged. So personal story out the way, has your raid leader ever made someone cry?

    "Our" sorry can't change title
    Nope, luckily not. And if that were to happen, then one is not fit to lead and should be kicked from the team until he grows up (else, destroy his hopes and remove them from the guild). It's just a game, and people enjoy playing together.
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