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  1. #441
    Stood in the Fire Crumpet's Avatar
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    if my Raid Leader screamed at me like a child having a tantrum... well he wouldn't be my raid leader. There's telling people they're not doing something right, and working through it.. then there's behaving like a immature self-entitled arsehole. A good raid leader doesn't lose their cool like that

    And the RL should know the mechanics. Don't move out of Attenuation, you die, as others have noticed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuke1096 View Post
    Personally, I think it would be hilarious if Troll Druids turned into walking cannabis plants.

  2. #442
    I absolutely dont think anyone who loses their cool after a 4th wipe on current-expansion heroic raid is fit to be raid leader. Especially the fact it's a game, yet don't even do it in real life.
    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." -Hunter S. Thompson

  3. #443
    Quote Originally Posted by bigfootbigd View Post
    I absolutely dont think anyone who loses their cool after a 4th wipe on current-expansion heroic raid is fit to be raid leader. Especially the fact it's a game, yet don't even do it in real life.
    A game that is very easy just like nerfed old content. It is funny to think that a adult is incapable of using a few buttons,cds and move out of crap. Wow is a simple game but I guess some people are real real slow. If you make mistakes expect a reaction and if you dont like then gtfo. Raiding hardcore has always been this way, they should have a bench to simply remove the baddie and replace her.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Crumpet View Post
    if my Raid Leader screamed at me like a child having a tantrum... well he wouldn't be my raid leader. There's telling people they're not doing something right, and working through it.. then there's behaving like a immature self-entitled arsehole. A good raid leader doesn't lose their cool like that

    And the RL should know the mechanics. Don't move out of Attenuation, you die, as others have noticed.
    A good raid leader tells it like it is. If you are a baddie you are told that you are bad and to get on the bench or leave the guild. This is one of the many thing that seperate the white knight fail guilds and progression oriented guilds that have been done with content.

  4. #444
    The Lightbringer prwraith's Avatar
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    That actually seems kind of normal.

    When you have the same people fucking up over and over and over every single night but you can't find a replacement, the only way left to get through to these people is shout at them. Because as bad as they are, not having someone there for the 25th slot would be even worse.

    Good raiders make great raid leaders.
    Bad raiders make pissed off raid leaders.
    Hate people who read https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ and immediately think they're debate kings.

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by glo View Post
    EDIT: To everyone preaching that friendly, laid back and kind leaders are what people should look for, that's fine if you want to be consistently mediocre (or casual). If you want to be competitive, your leader needs to be strict and to the point. Friendliness doesn't get you anywhere in moderate to bleeding edge progression.
    There is difference between being strict and acting liek a little douchebag with a small junk who has to pour his whining on raid team -_-

    i would like to bring back that OP was talking about team preparing to go to normal ToT not being a bleeding edge hardcore guild - this seem to got lost in those 23 pages.
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2013-07-25 at 09:38 PM.

  6. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    That actually seems kind of normal.

    When you have the same people fucking up over and over and over every single night but you can't find a replacement, the only way left to get through to these people is shout at them. Because as bad as they are, not having someone there for the 25th slot would be even worse.

    Good raiders make great raid leaders.
    Bad raiders make pissed off raid leaders.
    Shouting at an 18 year old with a buzzcut for doing boot camp wrong is one thing. Shouting at an Internet acquaintance on your team for playing a game wrong is another thing.

    Humiliating people from a position of authority is an important step in brainwashing/deprogramming. But hopefully that's not what you're trying to achieve when you log onto WoW.

  7. #447
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    raid leaders who scream and yell at people cause high turnover in their guilds.

  8. #448
    The Lightbringer prwraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    Shouting at an 18 year old with a buzzcut for doing boot camp wrong is one thing. Shouting at an Internet acquaintance on your team for playing a game wrong is another thing.

    Humiliating people from a position of authority is an important step in brainwashing/deprogramming. But hopefully that's not what you're trying to achieve when you log onto WoW.
    It's worth looking into to be honest. Brainwashing people to obey commands without question would really help some raids out. Because frankly some "raiders" shouldn't be thinking on their own. At least at the starter tier anyway. The higher you go the less likely extreme measures would be needed.
    Hate people who read https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ and immediately think they're debate kings.

  9. #449
    I think that back in TBC when progression was harder and more linear raid leaders could get away with the screaming thing, because it wasn't as easy to jump from group to group as it is now. There weren't multiple difficulties so all raiding was HM basically. Now a days, maybe in a real hardcore guild that's okay, but for normal modes, fuck it jump ship and find another group, you'll still clear normals.

    during TBC, during SWP on Twins I wiped our raid by not getting out of our group in time for a conflag, and I got a lecture so brutal and intense from my raid leader that I felt sick and sunk into my chair and wanted to die. I felt that way because it would have been a nightmare to find another guild that was 4/6 SWP at the time, and taking a set back in progression is a nightmare.

    During WotLK, during a 25ToGC run, we wiped to valk twins (lolbad) and my raid leader started shouting at the mages for not ice blocking like the two of us being the only ones a live would have mattered. I got mouthy, told him to fuck off, that I didn't need his shit. Difference was that by that point an expansion later it was so easy to guild hop, and I just found another guild that was at the same exact road block as us at the time, and decided to progress with them and not get yelled at.

    I think its an outdated way to motivate a raid party nowadays.
    Last edited by Meredi; 2013-07-25 at 10:13 PM.

  10. #450
    I have never witnessed something like making somebody cry. Sounds sad and fun at the same time.

  11. #451
    Stood in the Fire Crumpet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unholyness View Post
    A game that is very easy just like nerfed old content. It is funny to think that a adult is incapable of using a few buttons,cds and move out of crap. Wow is a simple game but I guess some people are real real slow. If you make mistakes expect a reaction and if you dont like then gtfo. Raiding hardcore has always been this way, they should have a bench to simply remove the baddie and replace her.

    - - - Updated - - -



    A good raid leader tells it like it is. If you are a baddie you are told that you are bad and to get on the bench or leave the guild. This is one of the many thing that seperate the white knight fail guilds and progression oriented guilds that have been done with content.

    Oh yes, our raid leader tells it like he is. He benches people, but he does it properly, firmly, and like an adult. He doesn't yell at people and call them bloody names like an angry child, he keeps his cool. He tells people clearly and firmly what went wrong, and to make sure it doesn't happen again. And people respect him for that, and play better. act like a mature adult and actually know what you're doing, and people will be happy to follow your instructions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuke1096 View Post
    Personally, I think it would be hilarious if Troll Druids turned into walking cannabis plants.

  12. #452
    last raid leader i had didn't make anyone cry i think. but he intimidated the shit out of new tanks. i thought it was hilarious.
    Quote Originally Posted by inboundpaper View Post
    The short answer is nope, the long answer is noooooooooooooooope.

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by Crumpet View Post
    Oh yes, our raid leader tells it like he is. He benches people, but he does it properly, firmly, and like an adult. He doesn't yell at people and call them bloody names like an angry child, he keeps his cool. He tells people clearly and firmly what went wrong, and to make sure it doesn't happen again. And people respect him for that, and play better. act like a mature adult and actually know what you're doing, and people will be happy to follow your instructions.
    I don't know what your guild progression is, but as far as I know, most of the time, if you want a fast progression, you will need at least one guy who is willing to tell people that they are terrible when they do without sugarcoating his words.

    I've been sitting on 13/13H for a while, so while my guild certainly isn't the best out there, I believe our raiders aren't too terrible either. Yet, during Lei Shen progression, there were mistakes. Despite there were people who like your raid leader, "tell people clearly and firmly what went wrong", and give instruction what to do, there were still people kept making mistakes over and over. Only when our so-called "mean officer" started yelling on vent - how these people are retarded, that even an elementary school kid could have played better, and if the raid leader didn't hold him back some of these bads would have had to kiss their guild tag goodbye already - these guys start being more focused and played better. Lesson learned - there are people who can't learn fast enough without getting scolded. People are happy to follow an instruction doesn't necessarily mean they are capable of doing those instructions properly. Sure, we could have spent another 100 wipes, by then these people might have improved w/o the need to be yelled at, but if we do that, it's the one who were doing their best would be unhappy.

    And to be frank, whoever cry over getting scolded in raid need thicker skin. How would they make it through life happily if they can't take a little hardship?

  14. #454
    Stood in the Fire Crumpet's Avatar
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    I'm glad we have a mature adult-only guild then. Maybe it's our personalities, our where we're from, but there has never been any need to yell. Heated words, yes, but no yelling like that video somebody posted, and no name-calling. It works for us, if yelling works for you lot, that's fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuke1096 View Post
    Personally, I think it would be hilarious if Troll Druids turned into walking cannabis plants.

  15. #455
    If your raid is dying to attenuation, its more of the raid's fault for not dodging them then the healers needing to heal them. I think the raid leader took it a bit out of hand by putting the blame on the healers.

  16. #456
    Stood in the Fire Weightlifter's Avatar
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    The raid leader was a clueless moron if he raged at healers and thinks Vizier HC is easier than Jin'rokh Normal. But to be honest, if people are dying to something as simple as Attenuation, they would have a hell of a time in ToT, especially when they aren't even overgeared. On bosses like Jin'rokh and Durumu, one player failing to move will cause a wipe.

  17. #457
    Warchief Flutterguy's Avatar
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    The worst my old raid leader would get was repeating "You're breaking my balls [insert name of whoever is screwing up]."

    Or my all-time favorite from ToC for Twin Valkyr. "Nobody likes balls to the face."

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