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  1. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    Hopefully in the "numbers tuning" will do something about BBoY really not being able to stack to 10 in its duration for affliction...at least not functionally. Right now my impression of the trinkets is as follows:

    Amp: obv bis but since the crit rate buff doesn't impact pet crits locks get less out of it.
    Cleave: sleeper so far but since pets and guardians can't proc it the trinket is weaker for locks than other classes
    Damage duplication: possible second bis simply for lack of other options BUT again pets/guardians get nothing from it.
    Haste w' stacking int: locks can't really stack this in its duration while others can....channel ticks are good for others but not for locks.
    Int w' crit proc: works for our pets and us, no RPPM randomness, just not a raid drop so no heroic ilvl (last I checked its an island piece)

    At the same time UVLS and the other T15 trinkets get a nerf due to the RPPM change.
    I don't agree at all.

    How is Bindings (amp) ''obviously bis'' when it has a 115s ICD? True, you it lines up somewhat nicely with cooldowns, but that is far fewer procs than the T16 RPPM trinkets as well as Wushoolay/Breath. The passive at 7% is really not that impressive, it's barely more valuable than 2k passive stats found on other trinkets.

    I think KTT (multi-strike) is looking more solid than that. The passive turns out to be around 4% damage gain vs the 5% of Bindings, but 0,92 RPPM is so many more procs than 115s ICD. The expected time to proc is 70s vs 120s.

    ''At the same time UVLS and the other T15 trinkets get a nerf due to the RPPM change.'' Ehm, no? UVLS is nerfed, but Wushoolay/Breath are not. Wushoolay has 10s proc duration with a proc per second, with 1,21 RPPM. That means on average every 50s you're getting a proc up to 17k intellect... That's just insane uptime on the best intellect proc in the game. Breath is also not bad at all at 1,1 RPPM, though it seems the bigger proc and better passive on KTT or Bindings should be able to replace it.

  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by strmstrike View Post
    ''At the same time UVLS and the other T15 trinkets get a nerf due to the RPPM change.'' Ehm, no? UVLS is nerfed, but Wushoolay/Breath are not. Wushoolay has 10s proc duration with a proc per second, with 1,21 RPPM. That means on average every 50s you're getting a proc up to 17k intellect... That's just insane uptime on the best intellect proc in the game. Breath is also not bad at all at 1,1 RPPM, though it seems the bigger proc and better passive on KTT or Bindings should be able to replace it.
    The RPPM no longer scaling with haste change is a nerf to the uptime of the t15 trinkets. Due to the half duration and increased RPPM, however, we'll still see great use of them as Pandemic will be used more often. This is mainly good news to affliction.

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by rables View Post
    The RPPM no longer scaling with haste change is a nerf to the uptime of the t15 trinkets. Due to the half duration and increased RPPM, however, we'll still see great use of them as Pandemic will be used more often. This is mainly good news to affliction.
    well, for me with about 39% haste raidbuffed, means it will got from about 27% in uptime on live with haste scaling and to about 20% on the ptr without haste scaling for wush atleast.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    Hopefully in the "numbers tuning" will do something about BBoY really not being able to stack to 10 in its duration for affliction...at least not functionally. Right now my impression of the trinkets is as follows:

    Amp: obv bis but since the crit rate buff doesn't impact pet crits locks get less out of it.
    Cleave: sleeper so far but since pets and guardians can't proc it the trinket is weaker for locks than other classes
    Damage duplication: possible second bis simply for lack of other options BUT again pets/guardians get nothing from it.
    Haste w' stacking int: locks can't really stack this in its duration while others can....channel ticks are good for others but not for locks.
    Int w' crit proc: works for our pets and us, no RPPM randomness, just not a raid drop so no heroic ilvl (last I checked its an island piece)

    At the same time UVLS and the other T15 trinkets get a nerf due to the RPPM change.
    i wouldnt exactly say its a nerf to other t15 trinkets, for heavy haste stackers it will be a slight nerf in their uptime, but with pandemic it should even out. for destro and demo it will be a definate buff assuming they dont stack haste to afflic levels. you certainly wont replace wush any time soon. and the amplification trinket is only bis bcoz of the critdmg it gives passively, atleast pre-ilvl 550 gear, so for those that are below ilvl 550 it wont really be better than say the BBoY(ofc it is inferior since you wont be able to use the proc optimally) bcoz you will get more static stats atleast in my ilvl 540 gear as for me it will give me about 964 haste and 800 mastery and +7% crit dmg and 11,7k int proc, thats barely better than wush, i dont think i would change my wush out until i could get atleast a hc version of the amplification trink. to me atleast the t16 trinkets are looking rather weak when you consider its the next tier.
    Last edited by almara2512; 2013-08-11 at 02:38 PM.

  4. #464
    Don't forget normal mode new trinkets are almost the same ilvl as HC TF Wushoolay, it should be no surprise they are about even.

    I don't think Bindings is BiS at any gear level for affliction, because the proc rate is so low and we benefit a lot from buffing dots with procs. 7% amplification is at most ~2800 secondary stats, roughly 2-2,5k mastery and the rest crit, assuming you go for a certain haste cap and can reforge into mastery hard once you get the Bindings. That is equal to or only slightly better than the KTT passive, and the proc on that is just so much better.

    Maybe it's better for our other specs, they have more benefit from long procs with longer cooldown I guess.

  5. #465
    One thing of note is that Affi will need its damage tuned down because of the trinkets working as 10 second buffs but more often, now seen as you arent going to use wush forever that could actually hurt the spec in the long run, im interested to see how that plays out because its the exact same thing with Gosac and Fire mages with what they allow to be OP based on what the majority have.

    In this case the HCTF Wush is literally absurd for affi, but its counterpart BBoY is no where near as strong.
    Heroic SoO progress 14/14
    Warlock armory - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...C3%AD/advanced

  6. #466
    Currently it's not a concern, as Wushoolay in its current state wouldn't be replaced until progress is over. The logical move would be to tone down the trinket, not the spec.

  7. #467
    Ofc that would be the logical thing to do, but assuming it isint toned down then Affi would need to be nerfed accordingly (note why i made the statement in the first place)

    Edit - Just because ive heard this a few times on posts ive read this weekend, 'Progress' is exactly what that says, no where does that mean that it counts only the world first race.

    The majority dont actually have access to a HCTF Wush and therefore that puts the crowd that do in the minority. Now seen as blizzard balance around the majority that would lead you to the assumption that blizzard will let Affi run rampant with the trinket because eventually due to higher item level the trinket will be replaced. Except that we are about to come into a number pass and blizzard know full how well how retarded affi was with t14 trinkets.
    Last edited by AjayxD; 2013-08-11 at 05:11 PM.
    Heroic SoO progress 14/14
    Warlock armory - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...C3%AD/advanced

  8. #468
    what two are looking best for demo atm not had much time on ptr to test them out

  9. #469
    For Destruction, doesn't Bindings increase the value of the Non-legendary meta gem? (+3% crit strike damage).

    Are their effects multiplicative or additive?
    Magnificence personified

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by qu1rex View Post
    For Destruction, doesn't Bindings increase the value of the Non-legendary meta gem? (+3% crit strike damage).

    Are their effects multiplicative or additive?
    Even if it did, that would be 0,20% crit damage. Hardly worth mentioning.

  11. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by strmstrike View Post
    Even if it did, that would be 0,20% crit damage. Hardly worth mentioning.
    If additive, it makes it 110% critical strike damage. That's not something to laugh at when Chaosbolt is guaranteed crit.

    Hence I ask, is it additive or multiplicative.
    Magnificence personified

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by qu1rex View Post
    If additive, it makes it 110% critical strike damage. That's not something to laugh at when Chaosbolt is guaranteed crit.

    Hence I ask, is it additive or multiplicative.
    Eh, not really? Unbuffed is 200%. Meta is 203%. Bindings is 207%. Additive they would be 210%, multiplicative they would be ~210,2%. Seems like a negligible difference to me.

    I think Skull Banner stacks multiplicatively with all other crit damage increases, so I would expect this to do the same.

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by strmstrike View Post
    Eh, not really? Unbuffed is 200%. Meta is 203%. Bindings is 207%. Additive they would be 210%, multiplicative they would be ~210,2%. Seems like a negligible difference to me.

    I think Skull Banner stacks multiplicatively with all other crit damage increases, so I would expect this to do the same.
    Isn't meta = 206% crit damage? I could be wrong, but that what i have seen said many times.

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by esatikkane View Post
    Isn't meta = 206% crit damage? I could be wrong, but that what i have seen said many times.
    You are right actually. Binding is definitely 207% though, and multiplicative stacking still has almost no effect.

    The question remains if a Burning meta might actually be better for Destruction. If haste is close to useless, it might be.

  15. #475
    I'd put amp (heroic) ahead of KTT for demo for sure since both KTT and the cleave trinket do nothing for pets/guardians which is a huge chunk of demo regardless of grimoire choice. Stacking amp procs w' darksoul is going to be semi standard. BBoY is strong but you don't get a heroic version till progression is done so that's out unless you are comparing a normal vs heroic of others. For non demo KTT heroic will be strong as will amp. Wush will be strong if you can get a HTF in the next week...certainly strong enough to use through normal mode. KTT tends to be what...3-5% of dmg done on a non demo spec? Compared to the value of haste/mastery and better crit damage scaling...I would anticipate amp to win in the end. Especially since it allows offspec'ing demo w/o a trinket change.

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    I'd put amp (heroic) ahead of KTT for demo for sure since both KTT and the cleave trinket do nothing for pets/guardians which is a huge chunk of demo regardless of grimoire choice. Stacking amp procs w' darksoul is going to be semi standard. BBoY is strong but you don't get a heroic version till progression is done so that's out unless you are comparing a normal vs heroic of others. For non demo KTT heroic will be strong as will amp. Wush will be strong if you can get a HTF in the next week...certainly strong enough to use through normal mode. KTT tends to be what...3-5% of dmg done on a non demo spec? Compared to the value of haste/mastery and better crit damage scaling...I would anticipate amp to win in the end. Especially since it allows offspec'ing demo w/o a trinket change.
    I agree for Demo, but KTT is far better than Bindings for Affliction IMO. The passives are very close, and the proc is way better. It's a 10s proc on 0,92 RPPM vs 20s proc with 115s ICD. That means you get about 1,75x the procs from KTT. The duration matters very little to Affliction, since you can buff your dots with it either way.

    For the same reason, I think FCoR (cleave trinket) is pretty good too. It has a 15s duration with 85s ICD, almost as many procs as KTT. The cleave proc is pretty powerful if you are doing any AoE. I would strongly consider it on Immerseus, Sha, Galakras, Spoils, and very importantly Garrosh. I think we will be a very good AoE class, MF Affliction is no joke at all and Demo/Destro obviously have good area damage as well. I was topping damage on AoE adds easily with MF Affliction on Immerseus testing, if done properly I don't think any other class can beat that.

  17. #477
    The cleave trinket is going to be situationally powerful for sure. Not something I'd use outside of its niche at least when lock aoe is pretty good. Amp having a 20 sec proc to match w' darksoul is a big CD stacked. The second trinket (ktt/wush/etc) should be something often proc'ing to snapshot buffed dots. Double snapshotting is possible but probably not as powerful as CD stacking ultimately. Also since its looking like an aff/demo MS/OS I'd want to use a setup that works for both. At least till progression is done since our guild has unbelievably horrible luck re trinkets.

  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by strmstrike View Post
    I agree for Demo, but KTT is far better than Bindings for Affliction IMO. The passives are very close, and the proc is way better. It's a 10s proc on 0,92 RPPM vs 20s proc with 115s ICD. That means you get about 1,75x the procs from KTT. The duration matters very little to Affliction, since you can buff your dots with it either way.
    well, you're not taking into account that during those extra 10 sec you'd channel MG, its not much but it might be enough for bindings to pull ahead. also your pet benefits from the haste from the amplification trinket and pets wont benefit from the multistrike so that is a pro for bindings albeit a small one and you'd have a bigger chance for additional procs during a 20 sec window than a 10 sec window, maybe im just overthinking things.

  19. #479
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    well, you're not taking into account that during those extra 10 sec you'd channel MG, its not much but it might be enough for bindings to pull ahead. also your pet benefits from the haste from the amplification trinket and pets wont benefit from the multistrike so that is a pro for bindings albeit a small one and you'd have a bigger chance for additional procs during a 20 sec window than a 10 sec window, maybe im just overthinking things.
    Well I think more procs equals more fun in the end. I know pets benefit less from it, but your other point is not as valid. The uptime on KTT is almost as much as Bindings overall (10s per ~65s on average, vs 20s per ~120s), so the odds of having procs on top is the same for both. However you do have a point that a 20s proc is a lot better than it would be if you had a 10s proc with 115s ICD.

    Of course in practice it will matter a lot what drops for you and what doesn't. Since BBoY is unobtainable for progress, I suppose we want HC KTT + HC Bindings anyway. Until you get both Wushoolay is a very nice substitute though.

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by strmstrike View Post
    Well I think more procs equals more fun in the end. I know pets benefit less from it, but your other point is not as valid. The uptime on KTT is almost as much as Bindings overall (10s per ~65s on average, vs 20s per ~120s), so the odds of having procs on top is the same for both. However you do have a point that a 20s proc is a lot better than it would be if you had a 10s proc with 115s ICD.

    Of course in practice it will matter a lot what drops for you and what doesn't. Since BBoY is unobtainable for progress, I suppose we want HC KTT + HC Bindings anyway. Until you get both Wushoolay is a very nice substitute though.
    yeah, you're completely right, sadly i only got the normal version of wush since we havent killed council yet or rather we wont kill council. wush will be great for progression.

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