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  1. #101
    Not too fond of the 10% damage Reduction thingie. PvE Raiders may be forced to use them on some Healing intense fights while some tricksters PvP Ranged Classes might use the (damage-wise) superior PvE Trinkets that give better Effects and strong DPS Effects like giant Stats Bursts or Ability-Cooldowns Reductions if they can get away with DPSing from far away. Or Rogues might use the PvE Trinkets for their bursts and since their Opponents are stunned it won't matter much that they lack PVP Trinket's Set protection.


    It should be something like 6% reduced damage taken, and 6% increased damage done to/from Player-controlled targets.

  2. #102
    Where are you guys seeing 84%? Everywhere I look it is 14% and it seems to be a flat modifier. 14% extra crit healing/damage, 14% extra mastery, and 14% extra haste. Seems not too unreasonable to me.

    Chaos bolt would be the obvious problem spell because it scales with mastery and the crit percentage change is a flat buff since it always crits. Fully geared destro locks have something like 9200 mastery, which gives them 46% mastery so like 200 mastery for 1% increase in damage. Also will have like 12% crit. Dark Soul increases crit by 30% which is a flat 30% damage increase. The mastery increase is roughly 6.5% damage increase on chaos bolt. He has like 22k spell power.

    So right now it would hit for something like this:
    ( ( 2.25 * 24000 ) + 2164 ) * 2 * 1.03 * 1.05 * 1.43 * 1.70 * 1.33 *.35 = 138575 self buffed on a target with no base damage reduction or CDs up.
    Spell power * crit * crit meta * curse 5% * crit * mastery * pvp power * resilience

    The trinket would change that too
    56614*2.28*1.03*1.05*1.43*1.77*1.33*.35 = 164480 self buffed yada yada. So it is like a 19% increase on chaos bolt. Wow, that is actually pretty strong. God help us if it is actually 84%. Let's look at that number, lol.

    56614*3.68*1.03*1.05*1.43*2.08*1.33*.35 = 311973. LOL. That is assuming the increases crit damage is mutiplicative which may not be the case. Let's assume the increases crit damage part is just additive.

    56614*2.14*1.03*1.05*1.43*1.77*1.33*.35 = 154380 or a 11% increase.
    with trinket at 84%
    56614*2.84*1.03*1.05*1.43*2.08*1.33*.35 = 240761.

    I just don't see it being 84%. If it is you will be able to nearly one shot people with chaos bolt ALL THE TIME. 14% seems more reasonable. I did not even figure into the above other buffs from teammates (mastery/crit) or self buff talents like sac. I just don't see how you can go from a 140k hit on live to a 240k hit by equipping a trinket. It will change even more than that because of the item level boost on gear.

    Has to be nerfed into oblivion for pvp, it just has to.

  3. #103
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Few things:
    1) You forgot the 25% reduction to players.
    2) The trinkets do scale with ilvl
    3) 2.25*24000+2164 = 56164, not 56614

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Few things:
    1) You forgot the 25% reduction to players. Did not know this existed. I vaguely remember the sac talent not increasing by 25% but rather converting into a dot?
    2) The trinkets do scale with ilvl Yes, but since we don't know the scaling or the pvp scaling it was just doing rough numbers to get an idea. Even if the trinket scales down to 67% as you say, you have to think how the numbers change when all your gear scales up to 522 from 496.
    3) 2.25*24000+2164 = 56164, not 56614 I was actually using 24200, which was assuming 22000 spell power (rounded) with your 10% self buff. That is indeed 56164.
    I was looking at rough power increase. I think I might spend some time on PTR tonight with the gear they give you to get an idea on the power scaling and perhaps some more concrete numbers. In the end though we will not know about the trinket until someone has it in hand.

    Also, can anyone give me definitive on the 84% versus 14% thing? I am curious where you guys all got 84%?

  5. #105

  6. #106
    Going to say I'm of the mindset these tooltips are grossly out of whack and someone just threw numbers on these things to get them started. A proc that increases crit damage, haste AND mastery by 84%? You wouldn't even need another item from SoO, even with current gear. Just get that thing and destroy the universe with it.

    I've been mostly a pve carebear for almost all of MoP and even from that perspective, there's no way in hell a trinket that does this goes live.

  7. #107
    Ahh, I am looking at the one that has 14% baseline and a int proc and there is another trinket with an 84% proc. Wow, you know I will have to spend some time working through LFR on my lock so I can run each week for this trinket. 84% increase on mastery, haste, crit damage and baseline intellect? Hell yes!

    Okay, so let's assume that the trinket will scale down to 67%. Let's also assume that the cut the proc in half like they did the shadow-pan trinkets. That would take it down to 34% rounded up. I don't have numbers on ilvl 522 gear set that is also gemmed, etc yet so let's just see.

    So first number is going to be a chaos bolt hitting a regular target with no CDs and assuming you are on a team that can provide mastery (ele shaman most likely) self buffed SP on a cursed target. Hehe, I am excited to see numbers!

    Live:
    56614*2*1.03*1.05*1.43*1.85*1.33*.35*.75 = 113101 Chaos bolt.
    Now let's say you don't upgrade any of your gear but instead just get the trinket and the crit damage is multiplicative and it is nuetered to only be 34% increase (and ignore the 2k int cause I am lazy)
    56614*2.68*1.03*1.05*1.43*2.06*1.33*.35*.75 = 168759 Chaos Bolt. Almost a 50% increase in chaos bolt.

    That is still pretty damn strong even with the scaling and 50% pvp nerf. Not taking into account increase in stats from gear ilvl. I could easily see warlocks two shotting people during a hard CC...
    Last edited by Tyrean; 2013-07-01 at 07:36 PM.

  8. #108
    I'm kind of on the fence with this one, especially as a human. Looking at the trinket set, both are movement impairment trinkets. Yuck. Talk about wasted stats and on-use procs. Sure the 10% flat damage reduction is tempting, but...

    I honestly like the concept of a trinket set bonus, but I think a better way to go about it is:

    Trinket (1): Any pvp trinket.
    Trinket (2): Movement impairment trinket.

    This evens the playing field when it comes to playing against humans, and grants the juicy 10% flat damage reduction set bonus.

    I also think that other set bonuses, like a return of belt-boots-bracers, or ring-neck-cloak set bonuses could be a great thing for PVP. No so for PVE, as that time has already come and gone and the devs have said it's not coming back. But it would be a good thing for PVP since it would create (more) distinction between those who actively gear themselves for PVP versus those who don't. Perhaps a set bonus for belt-boots-bracers could be 10% increased PVP Power, and ring-neck-cloak could grant a stat that is useful for your spec.
    Last edited by Whopoppedhero; 2013-07-01 at 08:43 PM.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrean View Post
    That is still pretty damn strong even with the scaling and 50% pvp nerf. Not taking into account increase in stats from gear ilvl. I could easily see warlocks two shotting people during a hard CC...
    i like your posts, they seem thorough.. i'm not going sit with a calculator to figure out of you carried a 1 or not but it was an interesting read.
    [missed the post about the % drop]

    .

    ---------- Post added 2013-07-01 at 10:55 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Just as a quick heads up, the % based procs and passives do scale with ilvl, meaning you won't see those ridiculous 84% stat increases or 39% cooldown reduction in PvP.
    Some people in the lock section figured out the 84% proc is reduced to 36% for ilvl 463 gear, so expect at least a ~20% drop on ilvl 522 gear (67%, 31%)
    thats some good news.. it's still a little high but at least it's more reasonable. if you look earlier i think i actually pointed out that i assumed the % would drop to around 70% or something.. i cant remember where i said that.

    if it is under 70% i'll cry less.. it's still a good piece tho.
    Last edited by Lulbalance; 2013-07-01 at 10:55 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  10. #110
    Nah, did not need all the maths it was more for the people that did not believe it was a over the top trinket.

    BTW, I just made a lock on PTr and here are my self buffed stats in 522 gear.
    SP: 29587
    Crit: 22.19% (8034 rating)
    Mastery: 68.55% (8910 rating)
    PvP Power: 44.51%

    So with the scaled and 50% nerfed trinket bolts would hit for... duh duh duh
    ( ( 2.25 * 29587 ) + 2164 ) * 2.68 * 1.03 * 1.05 * 1.52 * 2.05 * 1.44 *.35*.75 = 234653. HAHAHAAA I have 550K health buffed, which as you know locks are higher than most.... so 50% of my health...

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrean View Post
    Nah, did not need all the maths it was more for the people that did not believe it was a over the top trinket.

    BTW, I just made a lock on PTr and here are my self buffed stats in 522 gear.
    SP: 29587
    Crit: 22.19% (8034 rating)
    Mastery: 68.55% (8910 rating)
    PvP Power: 44.51%

    So with the scaled and 50% nerfed trinket bolts would hit for... duh duh duh
    ( ( 2.25 * 29587 ) + 2164 ) * 2.68 * 1.03 * 1.05 * 1.52 * 2.05 * 1.44 *.35*.75 = 234653. HAHAHAAA I have 550K health buffed, which as you know locks are higher than most.... so 50% of my health...


    i dont understand. did you factor an avg resil reduc into that number again? if you didnt.. that's not that crazy... probably around 170k - (+whatver reduction buffs and spells they have on).. so basically about twice what live hits for without cds i guess.

    if you did and i missed it somehow = ruh roh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  12. #112
    ( ( 2.25 * 29587 ) + 2164 ) * 2.68 * 1.03 * 1.05 * 1.52 * 2.05 * 1.44 *.35*.75 = 234653

    2.25 is the chaos bolt spell power scaling
    29587 is the self buffed spell power of the PTR lock
    2164 is the chaos bolt additional static increase
    2.68 is the crit bonus assuming the 34% crit is multiplicative instead of additive
    1.03 is meta gem crit modifier
    1.05 is damage from curse of elements
    1.52 is 22% crit and 30% crit from dark soul
    2.05 is from mastery taking into account 3k mastery from ele shaman
    1.44 is from pvp power
    .35 is the 65% resilience
    .75 is the 25% reduction that chaos bolt has on players

    I am sure I have missed stuff, it is just kind of napkin math numbers to get an idea. I really am starting to hate this stupid game and the burst. No fun at all.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Just as a quick heads up, the % based procs and passives do scale with ilvl, meaning you won't see those ridiculous 84% stat increases or 39% cooldown reduction in PvP.
    Some people in the lock section figured out the 84% proc is reduced to 36% for ilvl 463 gear, so expect at least a ~20% drop on ilvl 522 gear (67%, 31%)
    84% is a tooltip error i believe, its in the 39% range to i believe, or close to it.
    Edit: 36% http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/146047-i...-amplification
    Thats pre scaling. Meaning thatll be a good amount lower

  14. #114
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artem123 View Post
    84% is a tooltip error i believe, its in the 39% range to i believe, or close to it.
    Edit: 36% http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/146047-i...-amplification
    Thats pre scaling. Meaning thatll be a good amount lower
    That's what it is on ilvl 463 gear, if it was 36% on 553, it would mean the trinket is worse than any of the 5.2 trinkets and even most of the 5.0 trinkets.

    Also, I think it's also a good thing to look at other classes, because right now all I've seen is people looking at the best scaling spell in game, which will blizzard will just stealth nerf again if the damage gets too high. Going from 496 to 522 gear alone without cooldowns up already means a ~20k-30k damage increase.
    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-07-02 at 03:09 AM.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fincher View Post
    Not too fond of the 10% damage Reduction thingie. PvE Raiders may be forced to use them on some Healing intense fights while some tricksters PvP Ranged Classes might use the (damage-wise) superior PvE Trinkets that give better Effects and strong DPS Effects like giant Stats Bursts or Ability-Cooldowns Reductions if they can get away with DPSing from far away. Or Rogues might use the PvE Trinkets for their bursts and since their Opponents are stunned it won't matter much that they lack PVP Trinket's Set protection.


    It should be something like 6% reduced damage taken, and 6% increased damage done to/from Player-controlled targets.
    It has been stated that it will not reduce pve damage.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Did you see the PvP trinket bonus, 10% damage reduction for using 2 PvP trinkets.... I doubt people will use PvE trinkets now.
    well there goes the last reason to be Alliance. no more free trinket slot for rolling a human.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Dabrix32 View Post
    well there goes the last reason to be Alliance. no more free trinket slot for rolling a human.
    Humans still get a free CC trinket while still being able to use 2 pvp dps trinkets. So, your point?

  18. #118
    Changed to 2700 resilience for the PVP trinket set bonus.

  19. #119
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewwindeeps View Post
    Changed to 2700 resilience for the PVP trinket set bonus.
    It's so that people don't use them in PvE to take 10% less damage for some reason.
    Youtube ~ Yvaelle ~ Twitter

  20. #120
    I think I'm going to use this trinket... as a rogue.

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