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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    I'm pretty sure blizzard stated they weren't done with warlocks yet, be patient and see what they have for us
    It will mostly be nerfs, they aren't going to give you buffs, afaik from my reliable source.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Zargul View Post
    No, if you want to make a broad generalization, please be prepared to back it up instead of claiming "lol I was only joking", then using your 'joke' to further argue your point. Also, better and worse are highly subjective. There are probably mages who wish they could continue to act for 8 seconds while being immune to damage and thus claim that Dark Bargain is better than Ice Block.

    There is a lot of homogenization in WoW classes currently, but they are all reasonably competitive and engaging. I have no belief that this will cease to be if warlocks don't get a 60% armor form.

    Also, in what way is scorch better than KJC?
    It was a comparative bastardization, not a joke, neither an accurate analysis. It's to give you the idea that you CAN compare warlocks and mages. The point behind all of this is to show you that by comparing the warlock toolkite to that of a mage's, you can obviously notice that one class has the upper hand, hence why we need a buff. You jsut completely missed the point.
    And I don't see what person in their right mind would EVER choose Dark Bargain over Ice Block that also usually comes with Cold Snap. The point of Dark Bargain is to stop tons of damage that would otherwise kill you, just like Ice Block. The difference is that Ice Block also breaks CC, can be reset and doesn't end up killing later on. And no, being bulnerable to mass dispel doesn't make it worse or "equal".
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  3. #43
    Super Moderator xskarma's Avatar
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    This discussion is straying rather far from the original topic, into just general warlock complaints and comparisons. Let's try to keep it on the topic of our nerfed Fel Armor and the lack of buffs to compensate it compared to other classes, please.
    Attack the Argument, not the Person ||| Forum rules ||| New England Patriots

  4. #44
    The Patient Slowbro's Avatar
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    60% more armor in in da *Drools*
    Meh blizzard clearly hates us gameplay wise *except good mogs*
    Mage favoritism!
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    Congratulations, your Slowpoke has evolved into Slowbro!

  5. #45
    I think this is kind of odd, considering the fact that warlocks aren't doing too well in PvP at the moment.

    In a raiding scenario, warlock raid survival is insane, but not many mechanics are reduced by armor now, so it doesn't really hold as a great argument. Tbh I'm not too sure why it shouldn't be given (unless they have something else in mind, possibly more emphasis on peeling/escape/cc?).

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    This discussion is straying rather far from the original topic, into just general warlock complaints and comparisons. Let's try to keep it on the topic of our nerfed Fel Armor and the lack of buffs to compensate it compared to other classes, please.
    The point of doing the comparison was to show that we CAN complain about mages getting Flameglow and us losing our passive damage mitigation.
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenexis View Post
    The point of doing the comparison was to show that we CAN complain about mages getting Flameglow and us losing our passive damage mitigation.
    Flameglow isn't the only issue. There's also the buff to Temporal Shield, a talent that most Mages were already using on several encounters in ToT and the armor buff other casters got. Between the nerf to Soul Leech and the removal of the passive damage reduction, Warlocks are going to go from being extremely bulky in PvE to being more flimsy than Hunters. Any fight with Physical AoE damage (Zor'lok and DS Gunship are two recent ones) will be a massive problem for us, as literally every other class in the game will have better mitigation than us in that situation.

    Personally, I'm glad I'm not playing at the moment. Seeing the fights on the PTR and knowing how much Physical raid damage there is... I don't envy the high end raiding Warlocks. They'll be seeing the bench more than they normally would, I'm sure of it.

  8. #48
    Old soul link! Old soul link!

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    I'm pretty sure blizzard stated they weren't done with warlocks yet, be patient and see what they have for us
    The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    Flameglow isn't the only issue. There's also the buff to Temporal Shield, a talent that most Mages were already using on several encounters in ToT and the armor buff other casters got. Between the nerf to Soul Leech and the removal of the passive damage reduction, Warlocks are going to go from being extremely bulky in PvE to being more flimsy than Hunters. Any fight with Physical AoE damage (Zor'lok and DS Gunship are two recent ones) will be a massive problem for us, as literally every other class in the game will have better mitigation than us in that situation.

    Personally, I'm glad I'm not playing at the moment. Seeing the fights on the PTR and knowing how much Physical raid damage there is... I don't envy the high end raiding Warlocks. They'll be seeing the bench more than they normally would, I'm sure of it.
    Not to mention warlocks have always been a fun punching bag for melee to hump into the ground (with the exception of SL/SL days when we were Gods /nostalgicsigh); next patch with the loss of passive DR we are going to be conquest point piñatas for all the newly upgraded melee (seeing as there has been no mention of resil being upgraded, meaning defensive stats will remain the same as now sans fel armor DR but all offensive stats will be greater due to next level pvp gear).

    Mind you I'm not saying it's impossible to arena as a warlock. There are "many" of us who still put up decent enough rating, but we're still few and far between; check any kind of arena representation data. Furthermore, it's MUCH harder to perform at such a level on a lock; I can jump on my ele sham alt and global someone without CDs, or I can jump on my mage alt and kite for days on top of huge burst every 30s. On my lock, I simply tank.....and....tank.....and tank.....and tank some more and fearbotspam while being forced to spam 1 of the weakest spells we have in our spellbook - fel flame spam for destro, fel flame spam for demo, instant dots and fel flame spam for affli.
    RBGs have been fun as destro, but we're losing MF-buffed FnB which severely cuts the aoe pressure we can put out, and RoF is losing its ember generation so no more CB spamming.

    I personally would like to see us receive a root in the form of a talent on the CC tier. If they're not gonna make us tanky enough to play against melee the way we have in the past, then I want the ability to keep melee off. Make Breath of Guldan an aoe conal root that caps at 5 targets like any other aoe CC (honestly I'd love to have a void zone that behaves exactly like Ursol's Vortex, but the game is homogenized enough as is and the tears would be endless). I kinda hate the idea of a melee-ish range root, but I don't see any chance whatsoever for a ranged root a la water elemental nova.

    TL;DR: Want BoG to be conal aoe root for gap creating if Blizz is not going to make warlocks sturdy enough to tank melee. And/or a return to old Soul Link: 15-20%~ DR, 30% with GoSup, maybe 40-50%~ during the duration of GoServ, and 20%~ for GoSac while maintaining the increased health from being petless.
    Last edited by Shadowygoodness; 2013-07-02 at 10:28 PM.
    Those who you know as Warlocks are your Salvation through Destruction. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

  11. #51
    Well you are warlocks, one of the beefiest classes in the game you simply do not need this.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Ettan View Post
    Well you are warlocks, one of the beefiest classes in the game you simply do not need this.
    I promise if you played a lock in 3s, you would not feel "beefy". I admit funnily enough in random bgs and RBGs even, a lock can appear to be immortal as a result of RoF ember generation in team fights providing constant embers for Ember Tap spam, but as you can see in my previous post Blizzard is gutting Destro's ability to generate seemingly constant embers via RoF spam. Thus, seemingly immortal bg locks will be a thing of the past. However, this is only capable of happening in a bg setting; in arenas, you simply don't have the number of targets to use Ember Tap this way, which is one of the many reasons why Destro is nowhere near as arena viable as the other 2 specs.
    Those who you know as Warlocks are your Salvation through Destruction. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

  13. #53
    I saw on the PTR you seem to generate more embers through single target spells like incinerate. You also generate double when you crit so you might see a switch from favoring mastery to crit for some sick ember generation. To be honest I was tired of the RoF Spam.

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