5.4 Trinket Discussion

[Deleted]

As long as the new trinkets have a decent drop chance and have a nice animation when they proc then happy days!

[theherecy]

As long as the new trinkets have a decent drop chance and have a nice animation when they proc then happy days!

So it's fine for them to contribute massively to dps as long as they drop and have a nice animation :S

Unerring vision of lei-shen. What a masterpiece of an example: In locks hands it makes one of their specs. It's possibly the stupidest thing blizz have done in a while, no thought gone into it. I, and I'm sure others would agree, don't want another one of those trinkets; It essentially forces you to bonus roll on lfr, flexi, normal/hc until the cows come home. Without the OP trinkets you are nothing.

[whathump]

Trinkets are supposed to be up on the PTR, but they're not for some reason. Once they get up I'm going to test them out.

[Kulestu]

Looks pretty clearly like trinket #1 will be incredible, regardless of how the CDR is dealt with, doubt it will hit live like that.

[whathump]

Definitely can confirm that the ability reduction trinket is like haste. Makes Vendetta 1.44min and shadow blades 2.16min.

[Kael]

Definitely can confirm that the ability reduction trinket is like haste. Makes Vendetta 1.44min and shadow blades 2.16min.

Would you mind hopping into a combat spec and making sure each finisher really is taking 10s off, so that the 2:16 with 6 finishers would only take 1:16? Timing the CD would be more accurate than tooltips for this.

[whathump]

I did this tests with only self buffs, since I didn't have a raid handy, so I just did general comparisons and observations.

It seems the 2 piece was nerfed for assassination, sadly. 6 energy down from 20. The 4 piece isn't functioning, so it's difficult to get a fully accurate read on the CD reduction trinket for assassination, but it still seems to be a fair amount better than the other trinkets. The reduction trinket is either bugged for combat, or it does not affect AR/KS at all. It still affects shadow blades, smoke bomb and the others, however. The proc was averaging 24% uptime for me (19.13% haste).

As for the trinkets, the instant strike one does about 2% of my dps. The cleave trinket breaks even with the instant strike at 3 overall targets (2 being cleaved on), and overtakes it once a fourth target is thrown in the mix.

Trinket #4, the one that loses stacks, is absolutely pitiful. Autoattacks remove stacks, mutilate removes 2 stacks, I don't think poison procs remove stacks though. All the stacks are consumed in a matter of seconds. The interval between procs is comparable to the other two proc trinkets, so this trinket is just garbage.

The mastery proc trinket seemed to have pretty low uptime. Either that or it was just bad RNG. I was averaging 15% uptime on the proc with 19.13% haste.

Self buffed, the best combo of trinkets for single target ended up being 1 and 2, and for multitarget of 4+ mobs, trinket 3 beat out trinket 2.

- - - Updated - - -

Would you mind hopping into a combat spec and making sure each finisher really is taking 10s off, so that the 2:16 with 6 finishers would only take 1:16? Timing the CD would be more accurate than tooltips for this.

The trinket wasn't even reducing the CD for adrenaline rush or killing spree. They worked exactly like they did without the trinket.

EDIT

And I just realized I didn't think to check to see how it worked with shadow blades for combat since the trinket was reducing that CD.

Final Edit

It's just straight reducing the CD by 10 seconds per finisher from what I saw, nothing special going on.

[Wow]

The reduction trinket is either bugged for combat, or it does not affect AR/KS at all. It still affects shadow blades, smoke bomb and the others, however. The proc was averaging 24% uptime for me (19.13% haste).

When you change specs you have to unequip reequip the trinket for it to work right in the new spec.

[whathump]

When you change specs you have to unequip reequip the trinket for it to work right in the new spec.

I... did not know that, thanks for pointing that out.

In any case, with just using all my assassination gear with barely any haste and not using AR/KS, I was getting shadow blades on a 1 minute CD. This trinket will end up being huge for combat.

[Deleted]

So I've done some testing with the new trinkets. If you want to check the parses: parse #1 (~15 minutes with standard assa rotation without any item equipped but daggers and trinkets #1 and #2); parse #2 (~50 minutes autoattack & poisons without any item equipped but daggers and trinkets #4 and #5); parse #3 (assa opening with full gear to verify trinket #4 is RPPM and its proc's duration on normal conditions). If you only want the relevant part, check here: https://gist.github.com/Dryaan/5925440.

#1: Increased Cooldown Recovery Rate: (normal cooldown) / 1.39 as some here have guessed (and not (normal cooldown) * (1-0.39)). Cooldown reduction is applied once you got the trinket equipped, so no weird behaviour with Restless Blades or addons such as OmniCC.
Proc is called Dextrous and has an ICD of 105 sec.

#2: Multistrike can trigger on melee attacks, special attacks (Mutilate, Mutilate OH, Shadow Blade, Dispatch, Envenom), Deadly Poison's ticks and Rupture's ticks. It can't trigger on Instant Poison.

#3: Haven't tested anything yet.

#4: This trinket is RPPM-based. Each melee strike removes 1 stack. Envenom, Rupture, Dispatch all remove 1 stack. Mutilate removes 2 stacks. Poisons (both DP and IP) don't remove stacks. Seems like there's no hidden effect to increases the duration of the proc. Lasts about 5-6 sec on opening, without T15 4p.

#5: Very straightforward one, proc is called Master and has an ICD of 105 sec.

[Coldkil]

Ok, #1 and #are pretty standard trinkets so it should be also easy for theorycraftes to model them. #4 seems underwhelming due to the very low duration of the proc but it scales with haste so i assume that it will be pretty powerful in the long run.

More tests needed anyway.

[theherecy]

So Dyraan you're telling me the only decent trinkets are ICD based and not RPPM? #1 and #5 seem like clear winners, maybe #2 will see some use. This means the whole argument of going haste is now null and we should see something like crit>mastery>haste.

I'm surprised if this is true, the RPPM system seems pretty decent to me and it looked like they wanted to move away from the ICD based system, with that said it can be a real pain on quick progression where you eat food and pull cd is up. Sometimes you get your trinkets on pull, sometimes not and that can make the difference in some fights (Lei shen/megeara HC) where you need to push the dps.

[whathump]

Weird, I assumed all the trinkets were rppm since that's what Blizz has been moving towards. I suppose this might mean haste is gonna fall out of use for this tier, unless the meta is still enough to inflate it.

[Deleted]

So Dyraan you're telling me the only decent trinkets are ICD based and not RPPM? #1 and #5 seem like clear winners, maybe #2 will see some use. This means the whole argument of going haste is now null and we should see something like crit>mastery>haste.

I'm surprised if this is true, the RPPM system seems pretty decent to me and it looked like they wanted to move away from the ICD based system, with that said it can be a real pain on quick progression where you eat food and pull cd is up. Sometimes you get your trinkets on pull, sometimes not and that can make the difference in some fights (Lei shen/megeara HC) where you need to push the dps.

I am not 'telling you' and there is no 'if'. Check the logs. They *are* ICD-based.

Personally, I find this great. I understand why devs implemented RPPM but it is a bad, bad system which totally rely on randomness and over which you have no control during the encounter - you just do your normal rotation with a minimal 'backlash' and pray to have many procs. Its bad streak protection favorizes slacking and spending time idling to get (more) guaranteed procs at pull. ICD are much better because you actually can consider them and adapt your actions to get the highest potential from them.

I suppose this might mean haste is gonna fall out of use for this tier, unless the meta is still enough to inflate it.

Well, it will make mastery even more ahead of haste than it currently is.

Have to see what gonna happen with crit though, although it will probably not stay #1 given the huge 2p nerf.

[Coldkil]

Well, it will make mastery even more ahead of haste than it is.

Have to see what gonna happen with crit though, although it will probably not stay #1 given the huge 2p nerf.

Nerf?

Item - Rogue T16 2P Bonus When you generate a combo point from Revealing Strike's effect, Honor Among Thieves, or Seal Fate, your next combo point generating ability has its energy cost reduced by 5 15. Stacks up to 5 times.

To me it's a buff - or am i reading something wrong?

EDIT: cannot test ptr atm so probably on PTR everything is different. Agree completely on the RPPM thing - i never liked mechanics that artificially boost a stat.

[Psychowolf]

Nerf?

Item - Rogue T16 2P Bonus When you generate a combo point from Revealing Strike's effect, Honor Among Thieves, or Seal Fate, your next combo point generating ability has its energy cost reduced by 5 15. Stacks up to 5 times.

To me it's a buff - or am i reading something wrong?

EDIT: cannot test ptr atm so probably on PTR everything is different. Agree completely on the RPPM thing - i never liked mechanics that artificially boost a stat.

It was previously 20 on PTR (though the 2p Tooltip had a different number), and now it is 6, both in tooltip and the actual proc, hurting the effectiveness of 2p a LOT for Assassination.

[Deleted]

Yep, the fixed number on the set tooltip is meaningless. It was previously 20 / 10 / 3 (assa / combat / sub), now it's 6 / 15 / 2.

[theherecy]

I am not 'telling you' and there is no 'if'. Check the logs. They *are* ICD-based.

Not to sound ignorant but how can you confirm they are. Sure I would agree it looks ICD, but that could just be a refinement to the randomness of RPPM trinkets to bring them more in line with ICD ones but allow for haste to have an impact.

[Deleted]

Not to sound ignorant but how can you confirm they are. Sure I would agree it looks ICD, but that could just be a refinement to the randomness of RPPM trinkets to bring them more in line with ICD ones but allow for haste to have an impact.

[06:38:28.150] Dryaanassa gains Dextrous from Dryaanassa
[06:40:16.072] Dryaanassa gains Dextrous from Dryaanassa
[06:42:02.888] Dryaanassa gains Dextrous from Dryaanassa
[06:43:48.129] Dryaanassa gains Dextrous from Dryaanassa
[06:45:34.528] Dryaanassa gains Dextrous from Dryaanassa
[06:47:21.367] Dryaanassa gains Dextrous from Dryaanassa
[06:49:15.063] Dryaanassa gains Dextrous from Dryaanassa
[06:51:00.991] Dryaanassa gains Dextrous from Dryaanassa
etc

[07:00:27.817] Dryaanassa gains Master from Dryaanassa
[07:02:13.041] Dryaanassa gains Master from Dryaanassa
[07:03:59.522] Dryaanassa gains Master from Dryaanassa
[07:05:48.385] Dryaanassa gains Master from Dryaanassa
[07:07:41.993] Dryaanassa gains Master from Dryaanassa
[07:09:31.219] Dryaanassa gains Master from Dryaanassa
[07:11:16.461] Dryaanassa gains Master from Dryaanassa
[07:13:01.694] Dryaanassa gains Master from Dryaanassa
[07:14:55.056] Dryaanassa gains Master from Dryaanassa
[07:16:40.569] Dryaanassa gains Master from Dryaanassa
[07:18:26.171] Dryaanassa gains Master from Dryaanassa
[07:20:15.073] Dryaanassa gains Master from Dryaanassa
[07:22:00.302] Dryaanassa gains Master from Dryaanassa
[07:23:45.922] Dryaanassa gains Master from Dryaanassa
[07:25:33.095] Dryaanassa gains Master from Dryaanassa
[07:27:21.129] Dryaanassa gains Master from Dryaanassa
[07:29:10.337] Dryaanassa gains Master from Dryaanassa
[07:30:55.819] Dryaanassa gains Master from Dryaanassa
[07:32:41.560] Dryaanassa gains Master from Dryaanassa
etc

Being almost naked (but daggers + trinket) or with gear equipped, haste reforged (11600 haste, 544 ilvl, no logs available) change *nothing* to the 105 sec ICD.

[Coldkil]

Yep, the fixed number on the set tooltip is meaningless. It was previously 20 / 10 / 3 (assa / combat / sub), now it's 6 / 15 / 2.

I can agree on the lower amount of energy for sub due to more consistent energy regen even without haste and lower BS cost; i don't understand why so little energy reduction for Assa (but IIRC Muti generates two stacks at a time hence it's in fact a 12 energy reduction); what the hell have they smoked when they decided to put 15 energy for combat.