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  1. #61
    Sounds like they are really buffing combat in 5.4, with the cd reduction trinket potentially allowing you to roll your CDs constantly and the proc on the leg cloak likely being stronger for combat
    Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
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  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    what the hell have they smoked when they decided to put 15 energy for combat.
    You are saying thats too high right? Cause I strongly disagree. It has to be that high pretty much for it to even out. RS procs are a 20% chance so 1 charge on average for 5 SS. Even without crit stacking (which it seems the 2pc will promote), you have over a 50% chance to proc seal fate on a mutilate.

  3. #63
    Simulation/theory request:

    With the 1/1.39 reduced CD for Shadow Blades, with and without the T15 4p, how will decoupling AR/SB compare to lining them up? I imagine the ~28% shorter CD on SB will cause decoupling to pull further ahead and increase # of uses of both abilities, but head-math is a little fuzzy right now, embroiled in a project.

    Edit: DISREGARD. Totally missed another relevant post.
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-07-04 at 07:38 PM.

  4. #64
    Just based on intuition (no numbers or back of the envelope calculations), I don't see how a shorter cd will favor decoupling them. The synergy from coupling them is not diminished by uptime (if anything, coupling them will lead to greater uptime as it does now).

  5. #65
    shadowboy, unless I'm not following this quote correctly:

    Quote Originally Posted by whathump View Post
    The trinket wasn't even reducing the CD for adrenaline rush or killing spree. They worked exactly like they did without the trinket.
    suggests that SB's base CD will be 50s shorter than AR's (180 - 180/1.39) - thus you'd have to delay, what, 20 seconds on SB for it to line up?

    I'm thinking AR/SB -> SB -> AR until they nearly overlap again is likely to pull ahead... although it might not!

    EDIT: DISREGARD. Re-equipping the trinket fixes the issue (thanks shadowboy for pointing out my loopiness and wow for finding that out >.>)
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-07-04 at 07:39 PM.

  6. #66
    The trinket works on AR and KS, if you follow up that post and read later someone mentioned that you have to unequip/re-equip the trinket for it to work on AR/KS after switching specs.

    Either way, AR was 2.16min for me (matching the 2.16 of SB) and KS was 1.44 min when I equipped it.

    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    When you change specs you have to unequip reequip the trinket for it to work right in the new spec.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    I can agree on the lower amount of energy for sub due to more consistent energy regen even without haste and lower BS cost; i don't understand why so little energy reduction for Assa (but IIRC Muti generates two stacks at a time hence it's in fact a 12 energy reduction); what the hell have they smoked when they decided to put 15 energy for combat.
    I'm pretty sure Mut doesn't generate 2 stacks from doing the raid testing I've done. The 2p may have been nerfed a fair amount, but it's still pretty good.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    You are saying thats too high right? Cause I strongly disagree. It has to be that high pretty much for it to even out. RS procs are a 20% chance so 1 charge on average for 5 SS. Even without crit stacking (which it seems the 2pc will promote), you have over a 50% chance to proc seal fate on a mutilate.
    Yes, i realized that too late when i posted. Combat has a very low chance compared to other specs.

  9. #69
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    Sounds like they are really buffing combat in 5.4, with the cd reduction trinket potentially allowing you to roll your CDs constantly and the proc on the leg cloak likely being stronger for combat
    It's an incredibly unbalanced version of the PTR, everything is still subject to wild change, big things are still being added and some things even removed wholesale. At the moment, the only real thing we can be sure of is the rough direction they're taking trinkets this tier, not much more.
    I am the lucid dream
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  10. #70
    I found a highly interesting bug that has something to do with the interaction between the CD trinket and Shadow Blades. I cannot confirm it since I forgot to screenshot it and not sure how to replicate it, but I had a 1.12min CD on Shadow Blades at some point after spec switching from Assassination to Combat with the trinket equipped. I also noticed that the cooldown of spec-only CDs wasn't correctly lowered until after unequipping and requipping the trinket, which I am not sure if it affected Shadow Blades or not (I initially noticed this when switching back to Assassination and Vendetta was still at 2 minutes while Shadow Blades correctly showed 2.16min.

  11. #71

    PTR CD Reduce Trinket

    So today i logged in on the RTP to test out the new trinkets and its seems the CD reduction one will be BiS currently it reduces the CD's of

    Assassination Spec



    Shadownblades 2.16 minutes
    Vendatta 1.25 minutes
    Smokebomb 2.16 minutes
    Cloak of Shadows 43.2 Seconds
    Vanish 1.44 minutes
    Evasion 2.16 minutes

    Combat Spec


    Shadownblades 2.16 minutes
    Smokebomb 2.16 minutes
    Cloak of Shadows 43.2 Seconds
    Evasion 2.16 minutes
    Adrenaline Rush 2.16 Minutes
    Killingspree 1.44 Minutes



    Subtlety Spec


    Shadowblades 2.16 minutes
    Cloak of Shadows 43.2 Seconds
    Smokebomb 2.16 minutes
    Vanish 1.44 minutes
    Evasion 2.16 minute
    Shadowdance 43.2 Seconds

    this trinket should be BiS for all 3 specs i guess did anyone did the math already ? i'd like to hear your opinions about this trinket its pretty much OP if you ask me

    also noticed a bug where you switched Spezialisation and did not unequipp trinket the CD were normal on some skills like AR and KS and Shadow dance
    Last edited by Koji2k11; 2013-07-09 at 11:32 PM.
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  12. #72
    yes that trinket is by far OP but then again all the classes gets a similar one so , but tbh combat Restless Blades + that trinket /facepalm AR+SB every min or so KS every 45sec or so not even funny time to buy new keyboards guys

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    also noticed a bug where you switched Spezialisation and did not unequipp trinket the CD were normal on some skills like AR and KS and Shadow dance
    It's not a bug and i think it's intended. Changing specs makes you change spells, and the CD reduction of the trinket is an "on equip" effect - hence it's applied to the corresponding spells when you actually equip it. It doesn't have a memory of your specs/cooldowns.

    Also this avoids an incorrect update of the CDs and cheesy things like changing specs and equip the trinket multple times to reduce CDs to 0.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Also this avoids an incorrect update of the CDs and cheesy things like changing specs and equip the trinket multple times to reduce CDs to 0.
    Ideally your cooldown would just check for the presence of the trinket when you cast it; no swapping issues and no way to cheat it, but why they can't do that mechanically (besides needing a second element to update the UI) I don't know.

    Merged trinket threads - good to see this consolidated.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    Ideally your cooldown would just check for the presence of the trinket when you cast it; no swapping issues and no way to cheat it, but why they can't do that mechanically (besides needing a second element to update the UI) I don't know.
    That's exactly the point - i don't think they have a way to make a spell check what trinket you have equipped; it's the opposite - the trinket adds an additional effect to certain spells when you equip it, and that's the only moment they can make a spec check to choose correct spells to improve.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    It's not a bug and i think it's intended. Changing specs makes you change spells, and the CD reduction of the trinket is an "on equip" effect - hence it's applied to the corresponding spells when you actually equip it. It doesn't have a memory of your specs/cooldowns.

    Also this avoids an incorrect update of the CDs and cheesy things like changing specs and equip the trinket multple times to reduce CDs to 0.
    sound like a lame excuse to me if you unequip it the reduce goes away if you equipt it the reduce applys dont tell me the devs are not smart enough to make this reduce a steady reduce its not like the numbers are far off from each other every 1 min CD becomes a 43.2 second CD every 3 min cd 2.16 every 2 min cd 1.44 its not hard to implement this. but then again this is still PTR and we will see how they final version looks

    i tested it with all 3 specs and well coumbat felt more spammy then before its like you have AR and SB aviable every minute also KS is ready after every burst ^^
    i liked it on assa too more vendetta and SB's are a great thing

    well idk what to say about sub since i dont like it that much maybe someday OR if sub realy would be THE best progression spec on some fights then i'll switch witht the 43.2 cd in shadowdance i understand why the nerfed the 4pc bonus
    Last edited by Koji2k11; 2013-07-10 at 09:15 AM.
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  17. #77
    Lame excuse or not, it's more a techincal issue than a bug, and could be potentially not solvable. It all depends on how they can do the requred checks - see my previous post.

  18. #78
    High Overlord flimflop's Avatar
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    I've been very curious over the last few days as to how the 'CD reducing trinket' will affect the value of both the Tier 15 and Tier 16 4-sets. Obviously the Tier 16 pieces are more valuable when not involving a trinket, but we are yet to know if the significantly reduced CD of SB will keep the 4-set alive and kicking for a few more weeks into patch 5.4. It's certainly complimenting to the tier 15 bonus, but will it be enough to outweigh the benefits from tier 16 2/4-set when taking the recent 2-set nerfs into account?

    More to the point - Is there anyone out there that is talented enough to SimCraft model the values of: Tier 15 4-set + CD Trinket Vs. Tier 16 2-set + CD Trinket Vs. Tier 16 4-set + CD Trinket ?

    For progression purposes at least; knowing if we will want the 2/4 set ASAP is very useful information, as I'm sure everyone else can't wait to get their hands on that trinket...
    Last edited by flimflop; 2013-07-22 at 11:46 PM.

  19. #79
    Wait, is the t16 4pc worth breaking the t15 4pc for? I didn't see any numbers on that yet (just saw numbers on the set bonuses).

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    Wait, is the t16 4pc worth breaking the t15 4pc for? I didn't see any numbers on that yet (just saw numbers on the set bonuses).
    Just multiply the additional agility and secondary stats by an average EP weighting for them and check for yourself. Haven't looked myself but I would guess not, especially with that trinket, the uptime on AR+SB will be rediculous.

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