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  1. #121
    Scarab Lord Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanko View Post

    As for Twins HC. Tank damage is trivial there for every single class. Not only for paladins. It is a complete joke in that regard.
    You'd look more reasonable (this is a general you) if you stopped being obtuse and making arguments from separate occasions from the disagreeing side.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  2. #122
    The tank cloak proc sounds absolutely, completely, pants-on-head broken in PvP.
    I would wear that cloak for the proc even if it gave no stats...

    Also all the procs except the caster one scale really well and I will be interested to see how they get nerfed or else people will use them (especially the healer and tank ones) in the next expansion and we all know how much Blizzard hates that kind of creativity.
    Last edited by Ciah; 2013-06-30 at 11:44 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seahippo View Post
    We are gunna use some dust brown to paint some happy little tornados here, and one more here. Then we are going to use some white to paint happy little wind blasts here. Just dab the brush along the base of al akir, and there you have it. THE GAYEST FIGHT EVER

  3. #123
    Scarab Lord Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciah View Post
    The tank cloak proc sounds absolutely, completely, pants-on-head broken in PvP.
    I would wear that cloak for the proc even if it gave no stats...
    Ssssh, you shouldn't have mentioned it and they wouldn't have even realized.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    You'd look more reasonable (this is a general you) if you stopped being obtuse and making arguments from separate occasions from the disagreeing side.
    Could you elaborate a little bit please? Just simply calling people "obtuse" doesn't does you a favor. Especially when you fail to read my previous post correctly.
    The tank enchant is underwhelming for anyone serious in his/her role. Simply because your role is not to die. I'm not saying that you can't die, but most wipes aren't due to tank death. Typically either one or more of the DPSs die, and we need to call it a wipe, or we messed up on some of the mechanics. Tank damage isn't that high, that being one-shotted is a problem.
    Twins HC is a extreme example of this, where P1 is mostly one-tanked. Why? Because using CDs, you don't even need external healing with the Beast on you. (At least for DKs, Palas, and BrM this is true.) On P2 Fan of Flames won't kill you, unless you try to solo-it...
    On Primordius HC, it would be largely useless too. Because while it hits hard, thanks to the Metabolic Boost, and the huge amount of special damage, saving you from the killing blow typically means that you will only live a second longer. While on that encounter the DPS proc would help with the adds. (And the buffs from the adds would be a higher survivability boost.)
    That leaves Horridon HC, and Ra-Den. (Although I doubt the proc would work on a Fatal Strike like ability.)

    Obviously, we will have to see the new encounters. But judging from the last two tiers, it is underwhelming.

  5. #125
    Scarab Lord Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanko View Post
    saving you from the killing blow typically means that you will only live a second longer.
    Yes, if you run with 0 healers I could see how the cloak would be terrible compared to the dps increase given.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by vmagik View Post
    ... If that's true then melee got shafted compared to casters.
    Depends on how the proc works, like how often it procs, and if it can stack.

  7. #127
    The Lightbringer slime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vmagik View Post
    ... If that's true then melee got shafted compared to casters.
    Give it time... you'll come to expect things like that from wow.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Ssssh, you shouldn't have mentioned it and they wouldn't have even realized.
    I really fail to see how it would be OP in PvP, since PvP is not really about one-shotting people. Most killing blows in PvP is rarely a huge hit, which means that the save would not be huge either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Yes, if you run with 0 healers I could see how the cloak would be terrible compared to the dps increase given.
    Though what he is saying is true. In most cases that cloak proc is going to prolong your death by 0.5 seconds. The only time that is even remotely useful is when trying to cheese obvious mechanics, like taking an additional stack of talon rake that you are not supposed to survive, eating a decapitate without cooldowns etc etc. In a normal boss fight, that cloak proc is just very very underwhelming.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryve View Post
    Welcome to WoW.

    Given with the extra socket and meta, average ilvl 8 points higher than it should've been - more in 25s where TF is reasonably common, and a cloak with a next expansion ilvl, they're either going to have to tune heroic encounters to players having these stupid items, or the entire raid will be a huge joke.

    Otherwise, removing the "must complete normal modes first" req and opening heroics up immediately would be about the only way that heroic players aren't hopping into the raid already out-gearing the heroic bosses.

    The legendary and all other items on the way can be gotten by playing 2-6hours per week(until completion) depending on the full LFR clear, most of it can be even done by just slacking or total afk

    couple of hours some weeks after each patch to get a legendary is that unresoable? really
    Warlock / IA Operative / Wizard / Engineer

  10. #130
    Scarab Lord Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    I really fail to see how it would be OP in PvP, since PvP is not really about one-shotting people. Most killing blows in PvP is rarely a huge hit, which means that the save would not be huge either.

    That final GCD kill is usually the most important one to get something big out before they can recover. The big hit doing over 10% of their hp, being completely absorbed, and then their heal or defensive pulling through (or more likely partners) is exactly what pvp is all about. Why are all the tanks seeing this cloak in a vacuum? Do you not realize most times a tank would die he would have received a heal within the second afterward that would have saved him?
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Do you not realize most times a tank would die he would have received a heal within the second afterward that would have saved him?
    Most time when a tanks died, either he or his healers failed miserably, most likely the first. Either way, tank deaths are extremely uncommon. And I would say it is far more likely that he would not get that life saving heal in the next moment than that he would.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  12. #132
    Scarab Lord Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Most time when a tanks died, either he or his healers failed miserably, most likely the first. Either way, tank deaths are extremely uncommon. And I would say it is far more likely that he would not get that life saving heal in the next moment than that he would.
    I would say your healers are asleep then.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    I would say your healers are asleep then.
    Not really. Mostly, when tanks die to lack of healing, then something, somewhere has gone bad already. Which overwhelmed the healers. As long as everything goes as planed I really rarely drop below 50%, and even that is after nukes/breaths/etc. This might be different for 25mans, if they have dedicated tank healer, but in 10man it can happen, that the tank only receives some splash healing, or only hots/beacon heal it. And those minor heals won't save the tank.

  14. #134
    Scarab Lord Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanko View Post
    Not really. Mostly, when tanks die to lack of healing, then something, somewhere has gone bad already. Which overwhelmed the healers. As long as everything goes as planed I really rarely drop below 50%, and even that is after nukes/breaths/etc. This might be different for 25mans, if they have dedicated tank healer, but in 10man it can happen, that the tank only receives some splash healing, or only hots/beacon heal it. And those minor heals won't save the tank.
    So you agree that outside a mechanic you won't go from 50-0 in one hit, yet disagree that when a healer sees you below 50 they won't be casting a heal on you? Once again, your healers are clearly asleep.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    So you agree that outside a mechanic you won't go from 50-0 in one hit, yet disagree that when a healer sees you below 50 they won't be casting a heal on you? Once again, your healers are clearly asleep.
    Nope, what I'm saying is that sometimes, if both of the healers try to keep the raid somehow alive, then the tanks will get low healing. But this happens typically when we fail at a raid mechanic. (Ex: too many hidden add in P1 at Twins) So no, they aren't asleep, just sometimes things get hectic. And usually these are the last seconds before a wipe. And no, the proc wouldn't have saved the raid from a wipe typically, as we where clearly doing something wrong.

  16. #136
    Epic! Radio's Avatar
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    The current tank cloak proc can only be used to cheese mechanics or compensate for failure, which is why I consider it to be bad design. Tanks should not die to make a successful kill attempt, and it shouldn't be okay even if they have a 1min CD which lets them do so. All it does is promote bad healing, bad tanking and cheese exploits on one shot abilities.

    Back when Ardent Defender was a passive, having our pally proc it on an encounter might've saved our attempt, but we didn't consider it to be a good thing. Often our tank would say in vent, "I just died, pick up the heals."

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    The current tank cloak proc can only be used to cheese mechanics or compensate for failure, which is why I consider it to be bad design. Tanks should not die to make a successful kill attempt, and it shouldn't be okay even if they have a 1min CD which lets them do so. All it does is promote bad healing, bad tanking and cheese exploits on one shot abilities.

    Back when Ardent Defender was a passive, having our pally proc it on an encounter might've saved our attempt, but we didn't consider it to be a good thing. Often our tank would say in vent, "I just died, pick up the heals."
    Well said, couldn't agree more. It endorses all-around bad play.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Wanko View Post
    Nope, what I'm saying is that sometimes, if both of the healers try to keep the raid somehow alive, then the tanks will get low healing. But this happens typically when we fail at a raid mechanic. (Ex: too many hidden add in P1 at Twins) So no, they aren't asleep, just sometimes things get hectic. And usually these are the last seconds before a wipe. And no, the proc wouldn't have saved the raid from a wipe typically, as we where clearly doing something wrong.
    So, clearly, the WHOLE RAID should get the tank cape, according to Raiju.

    Agree with you entirely, tank cape is vastly "meh", since we're nearly always the last to die. Save for cheesing some silly mechanic, the proc is vastly underwhelming.

    However, a well itemized cloak with a powerful and scaling cleave attack? Suuuuure!
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    20k and counting...

  19. #139
    People are saying that the Wrath Ardent Defender passive is a bad proc?

    You guys are probably all high. There's a reason they basically crushed it down into the current ability it is now. It was ridiculously broken and overpowered considering the other classes had NOTHING like it at all.

    1 Min cd? G.G.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    So, clearly, the WHOLE RAID should get the tank cape, according to Raiju.
    Too late now, but honestly, I probably would if I were a class with poor survivability. If there's no actual cap for damage it would negate (and didn't likely require you to be in a tank spec), you could cheese a lot of mechanics and very often.

  20. #140
    Mechagnome Tucci's Avatar
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    Will have to break the cloaks and trinkets for PvP and also for next xpac. Too good.
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