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  1. #141
    I'm a DK, most of my guild overgeard me by at least 10 ilvl and i'm always last man standing, So yeah let me be a bit sceptic about tank cloak.
    It nice against MASSIVE amount of single attack damage(non talking about horridon's melees), but hey! ain't DK shines on taking massive singular attacks due our HP and Will of Necropolis proc? non talking about OP Purgatory+VB+Ghoul Sack while over kill blows occurs.

    This cape is a must for low HP tanks AKA almost all ESPECIALLY those pesky DPS minded brew monks that wiping on heavy magical damage fights "because crit is better".

  2. #142
    Wouldn't shock me if they decide to code these procs to work based on whether or not you're the correct role for them. IE, the tank cloak's proc only works if you're in a tank spec.

    Regarding pvp, wouldn't shock me if these things are flat out disabled for rated pvp. I suspect for leveling in the future, the proc rates will drop dramatically to the point of nonexistance as we level past 90 (similar to how the old Crusader enchant became less and less powerful going from 60 to 70).

  3. #143
    Warchief Redpanda's Avatar
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    with the cloaks and the trinkets 5.4 will be cleave city b*^tch cleave cleave city b*^tch, group up all the mobs so i cleave all up on their t^tties. Im not complaining.
    Chaos! Madness! Like a hug for your brain!¯\(°_o)/¯
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpheus View Post
    People doing below 200k dps? Ain't nobody got time for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by smartazjb0y View Post
    Why? Why should content be gated behind skill?
    14/14h and finally done

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Redrun View Post
    with the cloaks and the trinkets 5.4 will be cleave city b*^tch cleave cleave city b*^tch, group up all the mobs so i cleave all up on their t^tties. Im not complaining.
    Lul. But you left out a "b*^tch" at the end there.

    Plus, with all the FAWKING spell effets of lightning bolts, dragonfire, and other procs (thank god no more wind serpents and zombie trolls!), we're gonna have shit ERRYWHER. GL on seeing those ground effects, 25'ers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
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    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    People are saying that the Wrath Ardent Defender passive is a bad proc?

    You guys are probably all high. There's a reason they basically crushed it down into the current ability it is now. It was ridiculously broken and overpowered considering the other classes had NOTHING like it at all.

    1 Min cd? G.G.



    Too late now, but honestly, I probably would if I were a class with poor survivability. If there's no actual cap for damage it would negate (and didn't likely require you to be in a tank spec), you could cheese a lot of mechanics and very often.
    Personally, I think it's a very good proc, but not a very fun one, unless you can cheese some mechanics with it. Then it becomes rather fun and probably something to "fix", so the fun is gone.

    Then again, ideas for it? Random % reduced come from the meta. If it's got to be a tank proc, not a on-use item, I had rather have this than a random absorb, +% parry, +% reduction, +blablabla

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Espada View Post
    Personally, I think it's a very good proc, but not a very fun one, unless you can cheese some mechanics with it. Then it becomes rather fun and probably something to "fix", so the fun is gone.

    Then again, ideas for it? Random % reduced come from the meta. If it's got to be a tank proc, not a on-use item, I had rather have this than a random absorb, +% parry, +% reduction, +blablabla
    Does it have to be fun? They're all passive. Most times you probably won't even notice them happening.

    It's ridiculously good, is all I'm saying. If you didn't raid back in progression Wrath, you may not quite get how op this is :P Heck, the original AD was 2min cd, this is a minute. If you have any tank deaths now, I'd be really surprised. The only thing that can kill tanks nowadays are major boss hits for like 500k+

  7. #147
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    Does it have to be fun? They're all passive. Most times you probably won't even notice them happening.

    It's ridiculously good, is all I'm saying. If you didn't raid back in progression Wrath, you may not quite get how op this is :P Heck, the original AD was 2min cd, this is a minute. If you have any tank deaths now, I'd be really surprised. The only thing that can kill tanks nowadays are major boss hits for like 500k+
    Wrath is way too old for most of the MoP raiders it seems :P

    But yes, it is the first thing that comes to mind. The cooldown that single handedly changed prot palas from not viable for 'hard mode' to BEST TANK BY A MILE.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    Does it have to be fun? They're all passive. Most times you probably won't even notice them happening.

    It's ridiculously good, is all I'm saying. If you didn't raid back in progression Wrath, you may not quite get how op this is :P Heck, the original AD was 2min cd, this is a minute. If you have any tank deaths now, I'd be really surprised. The only thing that can kill tanks nowadays are major boss hits for like 500k+
    Yes, and I agree it's good. If it's need to be fun, well... good is fun, that's true. Could be more. Put a 3 sec stun explosion with minor damage a la Dragon Roar on proc and it will be not too much better (not that much content with stunnable mobs that will kill you, some bosses from time to time, any on t16?) and much more pleasant on the fun/aesthetic department.
    Last edited by Espada; 2013-07-01 at 09:00 PM.

  9. #149
    Call me crazy, but I still want the DPS one for tanking.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarazet View Post
    Call me crazy, but I still want the DPS one for tanking.
    I call you sane
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  11. #151
    One being good doesn't make the other bad.

  12. #152
    Pit Lord Radio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    Does it have to be fun? They're all passive. Most times you probably won't even notice them happening.

    It's ridiculously good, is all I'm saying. If you didn't raid back in progression Wrath, you may not quite get how op this is :P Heck, the original AD was 2min cd, this is a minute. If you have any tank deaths now, I'd be really surprised. The only thing that can kill tanks nowadays are major boss hits for like 500k+
    The only fight where we wanted AD to proc was H LK 25 where we built it into our 'cooldown rotation' for soul reaper, elsewhere, it meant that people were being slack.

    Now with active mitigation and tanks being a lot more responsible for their own life (my co-tank and I did 50% and 45% of all heals on ourselves respectively on heroic megaera) the AD proc is even more irrelevant. This is more the case for 10s than it is 25s but the point still remains. AD procs belong in wrath and should stay there, tanks don't get globalled anymore outside of their ability to control it.

    During heroic progression I've only ever died prematurely every once in a blue moon, and it was always due to poor play from either me or my raid. I've also been the sole player surviving on a few heroic kills/farms, on one Ji-Kun heroic farm I was the sole survivor for a whole 20 seconds and was able to keep myself alive through Ji-Kun's damage, and flying sonic shit from 20,000 fledglings and still kill the boss.

    AD procs can be raid savers but having one proc IS A BAD THING.

    Get the DPS cloak proc, meet DPS requirements of fights more easily meaning less raid damage goes out meaning healers have more mana meaning adds live for less time and tanks take less damage overall and watch as you never die enough to make the tank cloak proc relevant.


    Quote Originally Posted by JackTheLad View Post
    This cape is a must for low HP tanks AKA almost all ESPECIALLY those pesky DPS minded brew monks that wiping on heavy magical damage fights "because crit is better".
    That would be a L2P issue, crit is the best secondary stat for dealing with magic damage fights, it's lovely casting healing spheres/expel harms on one's self during megaeras breath for 300k+ crits.

    Not to mention being able to survive upwards of 25 stacks of Lei Shi's splash when it was relevant through smart chaining of cooldowns.
    Last edited by Radio; 2013-07-02 at 12:40 AM.

  13. #153
    My feeling is that the DPS cloak is better suited to an off-tank or add tank - a Druid or a Monk, whose job it is to hold threat on the adds and help shred them to pieces. The tanking cloak is better suited to the one that is responsible for shouldering the boss damage and especially if they are tasked with performing on encounters that are beyond their ilvl.

    In the end, though, it's not like any of the encounters will be balanced around the tanks having the legendary cloak. It's really a matter of what you feel is a better reward for the time and effort you put into getting it. As a Druid, I'm torn. Thrash is enough to give me all the AoE threat and DPS I've ever needed, but we are badly missing strong survival cooldowns, and this would close the gap between the bear's abilities and a DK's Purgatory or a Paladin's Ardent Defender. On the other hand, being primarily an off-tank/add tank, the DPS cloak is pretty attractive.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarazet View Post
    My feeling is that the DPS cloak is better suited to an off-tank or add tank - a Druid or a Monk, whose job it is to hold threat on the adds and help shred them to pieces. The tanking cloak is better suited to the one that is responsible for shouldering the boss damage and especially if they are tasked with performing on encounters that are beyond their ilvl.

    In the end, though, it's not like any of the encounters will be balanced around the tanks having the legendary cloak. It's really a matter of what you feel is a better reward for the time and effort you put into getting it. As a Druid, I'm torn. Thrash is enough to give me all the AoE threat and DPS I've ever needed, but we are badly missing strong survival cooldowns, and this would close the gap between the bear's abilities and a DK's Purgatory or a Paladin's Ardent Defender. On the other hand, being primarily an off-tank/add tank, the DPS cloak is pretty attractive.
    Your first paragraph completely contradicts the valid and accurate point that you make in your second. There is no way that Blizz can balance the encounters around the expectation that anyone and everyone tanking has the AD-proc. To do so would be artificially gating the encounter until the tank(s) acquire the legendary, from old content. For this reason, you can surmise that any and all damage in the tier will be mitigatable using the toolkits currently available.

    This means, much like the tank meta, that the proc is simply there as a bonus or prop-up for bad play/timing. Using this example with the tank meta: You already can and do survive the encounter mechanics without it, so there is no need for it. Especially not, when you look at the opportunity cost of what you'd be missing, with the DPS meta. So, you can play properly, use your entire toolkit, and survive using your own abilities which will allow you to pick up the DPS cloak for better itemization (for most classes) AND additional raid DPS. Or, you can choose the tank proc, and know that you can afford mistakes/slop once in a while, maybe.

    Now, I say this without seeing the encounters on live (like everyone else), and there very well could be some "LOL WE GON KILL U" mechanic in one/every fight that requires you to have the tank cape. But I really doubt it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  15. #155
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    This means, much like the tank meta, that the proc is simply there as a bonus or prop-up for bad play/timing. Using this example with the tank meta: You already can and do survive the encounter mechanics without it, so there is no need for it. Especially not, when you look at the opportunity cost of what you'd be missing, with the DPS meta. So, you can play properly, use your entire toolkit, and survive using your own abilities which will allow you to pick up the DPS cloak for better itemization (for most classes) AND additional raid DPS. Or, you can choose the tank proc, and know that you can afford mistakes/slop once in a while, maybe.

    Now, I say this without seeing the encounters on live (like everyone else), and there very well could be some "LOL WE GON KILL U" mechanic in one/every fight that requires you to have the tank cape. But I really doubt it.
    Difference is the meta was terrible because it could be wasted. This proc would never be wasted in a situation where you would die. Tanking has ALWAYS been all about guarantees and not random procs, hence why the meta was useless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Difference is the meta was terrible because it could be wasted. This proc would never be wasted in a situation where you would die. Tanking has ALWAYS been all about guarantees and not random procs, hence why the meta was useless.
    If the proc does not save your life then it is useless, that is fairly likely to happen in most proc situations.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Your first paragraph completely contradicts the valid and accurate point that you make in your second. There is no way that Blizz can balance the encounters around the expectation that anyone and everyone tanking has the AD-proc. To do so would be artificially gating the encounter until the tank(s) acquire the legendary, from old content. For this reason, you can surmise that any and all damage in the tier will be mitigatable using the toolkits currently available.

    This means, much like the tank meta, that the proc is simply there as a bonus or prop-up for bad play/timing. Using this example with the tank meta: You already can and do survive the encounter mechanics without it, so there is no need for it. Especially not, when you look at the opportunity cost of what you'd be missing, with the DPS meta. So, you can play properly, use your entire toolkit, and survive using your own abilities which will allow you to pick up the DPS cloak for better itemization (for most classes) AND additional raid DPS. Or, you can choose the tank proc, and know that you can afford mistakes/slop once in a while, maybe.
    Ask my DK main tank how much he outright abuses Purgatory to eat hits that would otherwise kill him. Having a Purgatory that is available 3 times as often, without the need to have the damage healed up afterwards, is enough to at least consider vs. an attack that amounts to about half a Maul on a single target.

  18. #158
    You will not be able to choose which cloak proc you want. You'll get the proc which 'matches' the cloak you own. This is simple people, think about it.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    You will not be able to choose which cloak proc you want. You'll get the proc which 'matches' the cloak you own. This is simple people, think about it.
    The Agi tank and Agi DPS cloaks are extremely similar. One has +Dodge and +90 Stam with socket bonus, the other has +Haste and +90 Agi with socket bonus. In the absence of the proc, I could use either one and be just as happy.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarazet View Post
    The Agi tank and Agi DPS cloaks are extremely similar. One has +Dodge and +90 Stam with socket bonus, the other has +Haste and +90 Agi with socket bonus. In the absence of the proc, I could use either one and be just as happy.
    If you were able to choose which proc you wanted... You would be using 1 healer in 10 and 2 healers in 25 man.

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