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  1. #161
    I think the trinkets are 10 times more legendary than this.
    30k damage over 6 seconds... really? I hope that's base damage, before any modifiers.

  2. #162
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    If the proc does not save your life then it is useless, that is fairly likely to happen in most proc situations.
    if the proc does not save your life then you killed the boss and didn't need either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  3. #163
    Regarding the tanking and dps cloak, it's all going to be about your skill level, playstyle, and what your guild wants or needs. As a strong DK tank with strong healers, I don't hesitate one bit to go towards the xuen one, especially while I gear out of avoidance. It's playstyle. They're both really good procs but the xuen proc compliments my playstyle more than the tank one. I stay alive just fine
    Last edited by Aezral; 2013-07-02 at 06:17 PM. Reason: Typo

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarazet View Post
    Ask my DK main tank how much he outright abuses Purgatory to eat hits that would otherwise kill him. Having a Purgatory that is available 3 times as often, without the need to have the damage healed up afterwards, is enough to at least consider vs. an attack that amounts to about half a Maul on a single target.
    Ehh, the 2 aren't exactly comparable, in that they don't work similarly. The cape is much more like AD (minus the dmg reduction tacked on in LK when passive and now when active). If we're hovering at ~25% for some reason and take a breath for 30% followed up by a melee for 25%, the cloak would stop the breath, keep us at 25%, and then we'd die on next swing to melee. Purg would absorb both/all of that, and we'd have those few seconds to heal ourselves/get healed up for 55%+ to be stable. This is a huge difference, and part of why Purg is so great, and why the cape is a bit underwhelming.

    Now, my DK is just an alt, and I'm only doing normal modes with him, so I can't really comment on cheesing stuff with Purg in heroics, but I try to refrain from using it as a "rotational cooldown" for the reason that its passive nature makes it foolproof. It just remains there as a buffer for sloppy play or as a last resort. I'd much rather prefer to (and do) ERW and 2x DS before a big nuke if I'm out of tricks, rather than face-tank it and proc Purg. But I think that's the fundamental difference in playstyles, which also leads me to prefer the DPS cloak over the tank one for my main (pal).

    AD notwithstanding, I have a metric ton of ways to mitigate stuff, so one extra ability that will rarely (ideally NEVER) get used just seems vastly underwhelming. Add to that, the opportunity cost of extra DPS (which is NEVER wasted), AND a more properly itemized high ilvl cloak, and I just can't foresee using it barring some silly mechanic that requires its proc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Aezral View Post
    I stay alive just fine
    On progression, if a player can choose their cloak enchant, everyone is going to be forced into taking the 'tank' one. A raid immune to death, yea because that screams balance.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    if the proc does not save your life then you killed the boss and didn't need either.
    I think thats exactly the point we're making for why you don't need the tank cloak...which, correct me if I'm wrong, you were lobbying for? If we don't use the proc, it's wasted AND it's poorly itemized. Big loss. If we screw up and use the proc, we may or may not recover, and it's still poorly itemized. Best case scenario we survive, worst case scenario we use the proc and still die. Or, we use the DPS cloak, have a scaling cleaving attack passively that will almost guarantee to help meet a DPS check, and have a properly itemized item which further helps boost our AM and abilities to prevent needing the tank cape proc in the first place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  7. #167
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    I think thats exactly the point we're making for why you don't need the tank cloak...which, correct me if I'm wrong, you were lobbying for? If we don't use the proc, it's wasted AND it's poorly itemized. Big loss. If we screw up and use the proc, we may or may not recover, and it's still poorly itemized. Best case scenario we survive, worst case scenario we use the proc and still die. Or, we use the DPS cloak, have a scaling cleaving attack passively that will almost guarantee to help meet a DPS check, and have a properly itemized item which further helps boost our AM and abilities to prevent needing the tank cape proc in the first place.
    1. Assuming itemization when we KNOW int and agi procs will be interchangeable. why not str too? This is part of why I can't take you guys seriously.
    2. If you kill the boss who cares if you do 3k more dps, really.

    you can list all the scenarios you want. Anyone who remembers AD's revamp will remember it as paladins being godmode, and as mentioned that was a 2 min cd.

    So yes, please keep assuming things to make an argument. I on the other hand will wait to see if blizzard decides to screw over strength tanks alone while everyone else gets choice of cloak procs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    1. Assuming itemization when we KNOW int and agi procs will be interchangeable. why not str too? This is part of why I can't take you guys seriously.
    2. If you kill the boss who cares if you do 3k more dps, really.

    you can list all the scenarios you want. Anyone who remembers AD's revamp will remember it as paladins being godmode, and as mentioned that was a 2 min cd.

    So yes, please keep assuming things to make an argument. I on the other hand will wait to see if blizzard decides to screw over strength tanks alone while everyone else gets choice of cloak procs.
    I guess I missed the part where they stated that the procs were going to be interchangeable; do you have a source for that? All I've seen thus far has been "there are some capes, and there are some procs" no mention of which gets which, just a lot of educated guesses that capes with stats like Dodge will get tank procs, while capes with Int/Spirit will get healy-things. I'm not doubting you, as there would be some interest in healers who don't favor spirit but still want the heal proc, but I've just not seen any blue post about the specifics.

    And paladins were not lolgodmode any more than a DK or Warrior back then, they just got a bail-out with passive AD. Outside of early progression HLK Soul Reaper soaking, AD wasn't used "rotationally" as a cooldown, it was more of an "oh shit, I just died, pick up heals" warning. Now, that mantle has moved on to DK's, and you don't see countless threads about them going "OMG PURG OP MUST HAVE!"...
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  9. #169
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    I guess I missed the part where they stated that the procs were going to be interchangeable; do you have a source for that? All I've seen thus far has been "there are some capes, and there are some procs" no mention of which gets which, just a lot of educated guesses that capes with stats like Dodge will get tank procs, while capes with Int/Spirit will get healy-things. I'm not doubting you, as there would be some interest in healers who don't favor spirit but still want the heal proc, but I've just not seen any blue post about the specifics.
    how does an agi tank get the tank proc? exactly.

    And paladins were not lolgodmode any more than a DK or Warrior back then, they just got a bail-out with passive AD. Outside of early progression HLK Soul Reaper soaking, AD wasn't used "rotationally" as a cooldown, it was more of an "oh shit, I just died, pick up heals" warning. Now, that mantle has moved on to DK's, and you don't see countless threads about them going "OMG PURG OP MUST HAVE!"...
    Dk's lost their OPness in 3.2 when conveniently paladins became godmode. Warriors? when? Never.

    Purg also doesn't completely absorb the hit. You still need to cover entirely the damage (albeit it still isn't bad) - it is more importantly at the sacrifice of other strong defensives (of which the cloak isnt).
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  10. #170
    There is an agi tank cloak which no one ever picks, we'll have to wait and see how the implement the procs.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Killuha View Post
    There is an agi tank cloak which no one ever picks, we'll have to wait and see how the implement the procs.
    I'm probably going to choose my cloak today. I'm an Agility tank. The stats are not that different.. knowing whether I'm going to be locked into the proc, based on the cloak I choose, is going to be the main motivator behind my choice, and I don't have the information to decide that. Failing that, I'll just get the DPS one so that I can also use it for off-spec.

  12. #172
    I honestly doubt they will let you choose whatever proc you want.
    Imagine Will HC, Jin'rokh HC, Lei-Shen vs a a raid, with everyone (except the tanks ) using the tanking proc...

    RL: "Who can solo-soak?"
    R: "Everyone can solo-soak!"
    *facehoof*

    It would be totally retarded. It is only useful for abusing it vs mechanics.
    Although I have the bad feeling that they will bind it to your specs role. >_<
    That would be annoying.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    how does an agi tank get the tank proc? exactly.
    Wait, that was your proof? There's a terrible agi/dodge cape that is designed with "tanks" in mind...


    Dk's lost their OPness in 3.2 when conveniently paladins became godmode. Warriors? when? Never.

    Purg also doesn't completely absorb the hit. You still need to cover entirely the damage (albeit it still isn't bad) - it is more importantly at the sacrifice of other strong defensives (of which the cloak isnt).
    You also get a gracious window of time to heal yourself up/get healed up after the hit(S...as in plural) that would have killed you. The cape just removes one attack, still leaving you low/in danger. It's like Purg, but worse.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanko View Post
    I honestly doubt they will let you choose whatever proc you want.
    Imagine Will HC, Jin'rokh HC, Lei-Shen vs a a raid, with everyone (except the tanks ) using the tanking proc...

    RL: "Who can solo-soak?"
    R: "Everyone can solo-soak!"
    *facehoof*

    It would be totally retarded. It is only useful for abusing it vs mechanics.
    Although I have the bad feeling that they will bind it to your specs role. >_<
    That would be annoying.
    Lol @ facehoof. But yeah, this is what makes me think it's just "Pick X cape, get X proc" no mix and match. Plus, lore and shit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  14. #174
    the melee dps proc looks good, but I worry about cc breaking or unwanted cleave damage

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Wanko View Post
    I honestly doubt they will let you choose whatever proc you want.
    Imagine Will HC, Jin'rokh HC, Lei-Shen vs a a raid, with everyone (except the tanks ) using the tanking proc...

    RL: "Who can solo-soak?"
    R: "Everyone can solo-soak!"
    *facehoof*

    It would be totally retarded. It is only useful for abusing it vs mechanics.
    Although I have the bad feeling that they will bind it to your specs role. >_<
    That would be annoying.
    Not sure if you can afford to have the whole raid drop the dmg proc and still meet the dps requirements, especially early on in the tier.

    They could also add some kind of limitation where the proc won't save you if the dmg exceeds your max hp (I believe AD had something similar)

  16. #176
    Mechagnome the9tail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Yes, if you run with 0 healers I could see how the cloak would be terrible compared to the dps increase given.
    Yeah cause Cheat Death is never used by Rogues like ever...
    Adding bewbs to his Avatar since 2011

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by the9tail View Post
    Yeah cause Cheat Death is never used by Rogues like ever...
    I've only used it on H Empress so the adds didn't fixate instagib me. I haven't used it in ToT once. Elusiveness is too good.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    I've only used it on H Empress so the adds didn't fixate instagib me. I haven't used it in ToT once. Elusiveness is too good.
    ... You don't take Cheat Death? Are you bad? lol.

  19. #179
    the healing cloak proc is amazingg

  20. #180
    I dont understand the people that think that if you have an entire raid with tank cloak you can drop a healer or two even.


    Also, are people honestly saying the tank proc is better than dk purgatory?
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

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