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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by vmagik View Post
    ... If that's true then melee got shafted compared to casters.
    Ehhhh, still, a chance to proc a FREE passive 320% weapon damage over three seconds to all targets in front of you, is alright... Though, I've noticed that a lot of procs in 5.4 revolve around cleaving... It will make leveling to 95 nice though.... :3
    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonwolfe View Post
    In other words, he's worried about how sharp your bayonet is when you are firing RPG's.

  2. #42
    I think the Melee DPS one is being under sold. If my napkin math is right then with my 536 2 Hander then that proc is worth 84k damage or 28k DPS, not to mention it cleaves.

    If someone wants to double check my math then I did (weapon min+weapon max/2)/100*60*6.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    I think the Melee DPS one is being under sold. If my napkin math is right then with my 536 2 Hander then that proc is worth 84k damage or 28k DPS, not to mention it cleaves.

    If someone wants to double check my math then I did (weapon min+weapon max/2)/100*60*6.
    We don't know the proc rate yet.

    If it's not normalized, it's going to be pretty shitty for DW classes and especially rogues. If it's normalized and procs poisons, it should be pretty solid.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    Plus think of the mechanics that will be negated by this ... for example, heroic Nazgrim: " Execute: Executes a player for 120% of their maximum health. This attack pierces immunities and cannot be dodged, blocked, or parried."
    Doesn't say anything about Shield of the Righteous though, so, until disproved, imma spend three holy power, negate 45% of that damage and keep trucking along with the dps cloak, unless Blizzard massively change SoO, I don't think any of my guilds progression fights have genuinely stalled over a tank dying, usually its the dps falling over or the numbers not being high enough, though I do raid tens, so that's possibly part of it. I'm enjoying making my DPS team sweat with the numbers I'm pulling with my dps meta though :P
    Last edited by Calgar; 2013-06-28 at 12:24 AM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calgar View Post
    Doesn't say anything about Shield of the Righteous though, so, until disproved, imma spend three holy power, negate 45% of that damage and keep trucking along with the dps cloak, unless Blizzard massively change SoO, I don't think any of my guilds progression fights have genuinely stalled over a tank dying, usually its the dps falling over or the numbers not being high enough, though I do raid tens, so that's possibly part of it. I'm enjoying making my DPS team sweat with the numbers I'm pulling with my dps meta though :P
    I'm 99% sure it's as you say, It can really only be physical damage, which can be absorbed via Sbarrier/Bshield or reduced via SoTR. I *guess* monks will stagger it and bears will have an obscene amount of armor.
    Or maybe it's just a normal warrior execute and is cast sub 20% on your health. In that case it's just don't let the tank drop.
    Last edited by Raxxed; 2013-06-28 at 12:32 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Blizzard offered cardboard cut outs with poster pictures of bosses stapled on them upside down and sideways and many players now feel that is raiding.

  6. #46
    Am I the only one who doesn't think its that terrible? Kinda weaker on single target though. It's essentially free Barrage procs for hunters... 360% weapon damage over 3 sec to all targets, i.e. barrage exactly (except barrage is 320% to secondary targets). Now if they changed it so your primary target took double damage it would be a little nicer overall. The caster one will deliver more consistent damage because its AOE is secondary, not primary like the physical one. Physical one will be amazing in multi target fights, bleh in single target which is why I think it needs that double damage on primary just like Barrage.
    Last edited by bendak; 2013-06-28 at 12:36 AM.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    Agreed. These cloaks are going to have to do something other than a generic "your damage proc's this spell" effect to feel legendary.
    Isn't that what pretty much every legendary does anyway?

    Sulfuras: Procs on auto-swing
    Thunderfury: Procs on auto-swing
    Glaives: Chance on melee attack
    Bow: Indirectly and not relevant now, but it auto-generated arrows for you
    Val'anyr: Chance on cast of a healing spell
    Shadowmourne: Chance on melee attack
    Dragonwrath: Copied a spell
    Daggers: Chance on melee attack

    People will complain if their ice cream was cold. It's free damage/healing. It can be bad sometimes (when adds near the boss shouldn't be killed), but overall, it's still free. I don't particularly like the tanking one though, not a big fan of having cooldowns I can't control. It's still better than nothing though.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raintola View Post
    Isn't that what pretty much every legendary does anyway?
    People will complain if their ice cream was cold. It's free damage/healing. It can be bad sometimes (when adds near the boss shouldn't be killed), but overall, it's still free. I don't particularly like the tanking one though, not a big fan of having cooldowns I can't control. It's still better than nothing though.
    [Sarcasm]
    I hate it when my 608 ilvl cloak doesn't proc enough damage.
    I'll just have to deal with the 50 billion stat increase. Oh man ><
    [/Sarcasm]
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Blizzard offered cardboard cut outs with poster pictures of bosses stapled on them upside down and sideways and many players now feel that is raiding.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Raxxed View Post
    I'm 99% sure it's as you say, It can really only be physical damage, which can be absorbed via Sbarrier/Bshield or reduced via SoTR. I *guess* monks will stagger it and bears will have an obscene amount of armor.
    Or maybe it's just a normal warrior execute and is cast sub 20% on your health. In that case it's just don't let the tank drop.
    Damn I completely forgot about armor, if that reduces it too, its barely gonna be a thing, just a new name for Talon rake/Triple Puncture/etc, without the stacks....
    Or, if it's cast sub 20% I see some of the hardcore progression guilds cheesing it for vengeance.........

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calgar View Post
    Damn I completely forgot about armor, if that reduces it too, its barely gonna be a thing, just a new name for Talon rake/Triple Puncture/etc, without the stacks....
    Or, if it's cast sub 20% I see some of the hardcore progression guilds cheesing it for vengeance.........
    With the new vengeance cap, I doubt it'll be worth it. He's already hitting relatively hard (in 10N) so I imagine in 25H he'll be hitting like a freight train, the vengeance gain wouldn't be worth the risk.
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Blizzard offered cardboard cut outs with poster pictures of bosses stapled on them upside down and sideways and many players now feel that is raiding.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Raxxed View Post
    With the new vengeance cap, I doubt it'll be worth it. He's already hitting relatively hard (in 10N) so I imagine in 25H he'll be hitting like a freight train, the vengeance gain wouldn't be worth the risk.
    The new vengeance cap isn't gonna change anything at all. Currently you never ever cap vengeance anyway unless solo tanking a whole bunch that was supposed to be duo tanked, or just playing very badly which will end up getting you killed anyway regardless of vengeance levels. Normal vengeance levels you gain currently tanking heroic content while doing it properly doesn't even put you close to the new (suggested, still not confirmed if they will do it) caps anyway.

    As for the actual cloak procs, I normally would go for the dps options but if they make it in this incarnation it would appear i will be using the tank one for once.
    Last edited by Evory; 2013-06-28 at 12:56 AM.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Which is ridiculous for progression guilds (expecting these aren't available till after WF race is over), where if your tank dies unexpectedly in a fight while he uses the dps cloak you'd be kicking yourselves for letting him.
    That's the thing though, a good tank, in a good raid, will not die. Ever. The end. Tank deaths are a stupid thing to wipe to.

    I recognize a lot of tanks aren't that good, and even more raids are not that good and for them a "i fucked up save my ass please"-cloak will be nice, but as with everything this expansion, good tanks will likely go for the dps one - especially serious progression guilds if the cloaks will be available that early.

    Overall, the tank cloak one is, to be quite honest, shit. If you dropped that low something is wrong anyway and chances are your healers already blew everything to keep up with whatever it was you messed up to get so low you actually would have died, causing another death moments later.

    A tank will not suddenly, magically, decide to stop using their cooldowns or mitigation just because the 60seconds are over and the cloak is ready to proc and keep you at 1% health instead of 0%.

    That said, the dps ones look pretty interesting, especially the melee one. I'm slightly underwhelmed by the caster one - not the numbers, that all can change, but it's basically just hand of guldan. I'd have liked something... I don't know. More unique.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evory View Post
    The new vengeance cap isn't gonna change anything at all. Currently you never ever cap vengeance anyway unless solo tanking a whole bunch that was supposed to be duo tanked. Normal vengeance levels you gain currently tanking heroic content while doing it properly doesn't even put you close to the new (suggested, still not confirmed if they will do it) caps anyway.
    Nazgrim hits unusually hard. Also take into account the sunder armor debuff which will ramp up damage even higher. When he was sitting in defensive stance I was still copping 270-300k hits, on 10 NORMAL. That's as hard as 25H Leishen hits me (Without active mit).
    25H + Berserker stance = You're gonna be seeing huge numbers.
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Blizzard offered cardboard cut outs with poster pictures of bosses stapled on them upside down and sideways and many players now feel that is raiding.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Evory View Post
    The new vengeance cap isn't gonna change anything at all. Currently you never ever cap vengeance anyway unless solo tanking a whole bunch that was supposed to be duo tanked. Normal vengeance levels you gain currently tanking heroic content while doing it properly doesn't even put you close to the new (suggested, still not confirmed if they will do it) caps anyway.
    This^^ and besides, we are talking about the guys that have been using /sit to get critted by bosses for more vengeance, unless the fight caps you normally, make no mistake, the guys racing for world first heroics WILL be doing whatever they can to hit that vengeance cap.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirque View Post
    A tank will not suddenly, magically, decide to stop using their cooldowns or mitigation just because the 60seconds are over and the cloak is ready to proc and keep you at 1% health instead of 0%.
    It doesn't work the same as purgatory, the proc absorbs the full hit of the attack that would have otherwise killed you.

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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by vmagik View Post
    ... If that's true then melee got shafted compared to casters.
    That all depends on the proc rate, doesn't it?

    They'll probably do something like the Rogue legendary where proc rates vary by spec to roughly balance it.
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  17. #57
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    The Xuen proc doesn't look good, but if it turns out to work like a "free Barrage", then I'll sure want it!

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Raxxed View Post
    Nazgrim hits unusually hard. Also take into account the sunder armor debuff which will ramp up damage even higher. When he was sitting in defensive stance I was still copping 270-300k hits, on 10 NORMAL. That's as hard as 25H Leishen hits me (Without active mit).
    25H + Berserker stance = You're gonna be seeing huge numbers.
    Yeah i know he hits hard on non avoidance tanks but his efforts are pitiful on avoidance tanks. I tanked him on my bear on PTR and dodged all his specials and many of his melee hits, and those i didn't was mitigated by armor (still have quite alot even with a couple sunder armor stacks) so they still didn't hit all that hard even while he was in beserker stance.

    Regardless he doesn't hit hard enough even on non avoidance tanks to cap your vengeance.

    Oh and in regards to what you said about his defensive stance, that one was bugged during PTR testing making you unable to attack him properly for resources to use on your active mitigation abilities.
    Last edited by Evory; 2013-06-28 at 01:31 AM.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evory View Post
    Yeah i know he hits hard on non avoidance tanks but his efforts are pitiful on avoidance tanks. I tanked him on my bear on PTR and dodged all his specials and many of his melee hits, and those i didn't was mitigated by armor (still have quite alot even with a couple sunder armor stacks) so they still didn't hit all that hard even while he was in beserker stance.

    Regardless he doesn't hit hard enough even on non avoidance tanks to cap your vengeance.
    Yeah, it definitely wont cap you but it will put you exceptionally high. Taking an execute (Blowing a bunch of cds) could fuck you later on when you've got nothing to keep yourself up during a zerker stance
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Blizzard offered cardboard cut outs with poster pictures of bosses stapled on them upside down and sideways and many players now feel that is raiding.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Raxxed View Post
    Yeah, it definitely wont cap you but it will put you exceptionally high. Taking an execute (Blowing a bunch of cds) could fuck you later on when you've got nothing to keep yourself up during a zerker stance
    No doubt, but we dont know yet how often he is gonna use that heroic only ability, and if its rare enough seems to me you can just pop or get externally an HP Increase CD and that should be sufficient to survive it. Unsure if the additional hp will count towards the damage as well, but even so it doesn't mention anything about ignoring damage reduction cd's of which there should be plenty depending on frequency.

    Or get the tank cloak to save your life just to put something of relevance to the thread into the post
    Last edited by Evory; 2013-06-28 at 01:43 AM.

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