1. #1

    Post rest and recuperation back after a long break

    Greetings:

    I took a three and half month break from gaming on wow, I am a main rogue player.

    I was browsing the forums and mugajack said about this was the time to "subscribe back" he mentioned in a thread. (i hate you coldkil).
    to be honest the class is fun.

    DO NOT READ THIS IS YOU TAKE WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT PERSONAL

    overall energy and hit / expertise

    on my rogue the tooltip says 5.**% but what it really is .71 % chance of experteese. ignore the 5.**% its 0.71% chance for expertise.

    just a second look after a break that slips everyones mind.

    i think that the rogue needs a boost in energy hit and expertise buff. rogue' are weapon masters.

    Combat - does have a lot of energy regen mugajack pointed that out but the combo gens cost 40 energy. when both used your down to 20 energy considering 100 energy on the bar. and then the off hand energy procs etc. it's not consistent with stability. sputters

    assassination - mutilate costs 45 energy and gives 4 combo points. energy per combo point cost 11.25 energy

    we compare mutilate to ss and rs - mutilate hits like a champ. ss and rv give 1 cp (to hell with the glygh)

    the picture to what i'm saying if this makes sense.

    ---- finisher; (currant) this about the commands you can send via your energy currant for cp gens; really anyone that is new usually spams that annoys everyone else. is broken for everyone else (I hate using the jargon spam)

    ------- finisher; this is what it should be because the nature of the combo point system for the dps and max damage that is designed important to all three specs. using macros won't fix this either. the finishers are the keystone that make all the (so called rogue spam work)

    keep in mind that everyone' armor and damage reduction health pools etc. are this compared to what a one rogue or two can do.

    ----------------------------------------------------



    I have introspection about this, some people have extrospection but when you get 5 levels deep in introspection and then you gain a level on extrospection you seem to be a bit overpowered. to everyone that has no clue what we chat about. do you guys follow? should i slow down?

    the tool tip for energy regen on the base is 10 energy a second then the buff for slice and dice gives 8 energy so ever 1-2 seconds we get 10-18 energy

    rogues need to be in the realm of 10-16 energy base sixteen if we absolutely stack all haste and ignore everything else 16 base plus s&d buff 8 = 24 energy. realistically mutilate 1-2 seconds or 1-4?

    most everyone advise' agility prime #1 i see why. i look at overall which is to me agility is just the base of your damage the gear you have has agility the base of your damage. i don't see concentrating on the base as important to the ability to actually finish your rotation at a faster rate because the eviscerate and envenom does the damage made up from stacking agility

    this class is a puzzle and it is intended this way this is what we have to agree on. i don't care if you agree with me or not because the guys @ noxxic say to do it this way. this is how i am and so are they. always testing sharing get a feel for the insane puzzle so that we can do something to step in the right direction when we all agree to make a change that benefits every that like to play this class. everyone else i don't care they can hate all they want. life gives you lemons make some lemonade.

    after me putting some thought into this i see overall a buff on base energy 0.20 increase from haste so a certain number of energy would give a rogue in the realm with balancing the stats 12-15 still have agility haste mastery hit expertise


    assassination combat subtlety i would balance to where from within to match what other are doing. is the only wy a buff to be given because so many hate rogue'

    this is my thoughts to add to the subject and an overall attempt to get you all thinking.
    Last edited by Thieves cant; 2013-07-01 at 06:28 PM.

  2. #2
    I'm afraid that the writing of your post is unclear enough that I really can't follow any of the points you're trying to make...

    what you mean about expertise being either 5.**% or .71%, I don't really understand what you're trying to say, nor when you say mutilate costs 45 energy and generates 4 combo points - is that a suggestion? That's not how it works on live.

    I'm not really sure what you mean by "this class is a puzzle" either... if you could reword the post so that your thoughts are clear, they'd be easier to respond to.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by regularcustomer View Post
    do you guys follow? should i slow down?
    First things first: not really, no.

    Quote Originally Posted by regularcustomer View Post
    overall energy and hit / expertise

    on my rogue the tooltip says 5.**% but what it really is .71 % chance of experteese. ignore the 5.**% its 0.71% chance for expertise.

    just a second look after a break that slips everyones mind.

    i think that the rogue needs a boost in energy hit and expertise buff. rogue' are weapon master
    I'm not sure you know how hit and expertise work. Hit reduces your chance to miss (cap 7.5% for abilities vs bosses; 24% for autoattacks vs bosses) you only need to cap for abilities. Expertise reduces your chance to be dodge and then to be parried (7.5% for dodge, then another 7.5% for parry; 15% hard cap); you only need to push dodge off the combat table (7.5%) because mobs can't parry from behind, but they can dodge.

    These have nothing to do with energy regen for Mut/Subt. All specs already value hit very highly. Only combat gets energy from exp, and it's worth more than agi (1:1) in most cases.

    I don't really know what you're saying. I'm just explaining things.

    Quote Originally Posted by regularcustomer View Post
    Combat - does have a lot of energy regen mugajack pointed that out but the combo gens cost 40 energy. when both used your down to 20 energy considering 100 energy on the bar. and then the off hand energy procs etc. it's not consistent with stability. sputters
    It also has higher base energy regen. You're forgetting that you regen during globals. 2 SS will never bring you from 100 energy to 20. You also have mastery procs for energy which can themselves proc Combat Potency again. Combat does not have a problem with energy gen except that they get WAY TOO MUCH during AR+SB and a .5s gcd is really shitty with any latency.

    Quote Originally Posted by regularcustomer View Post
    assassination - mutilate costs 45 energy and gives 4 combo points. energy per combo point cost 11.25 energy

    we compare mutilate to ss and rs - mutilate hits like a champ. ss and rv give 1 cp (to hell with the glygh)
    Mutilate costs 55 energy and gives 2 CP (3 if crit).

    It doesn't hit that hard either. It just hits twice, so it can proc DP twice. SS gives 1.2 CP on average and RvS gives 1 CP, but you only press it once every ~24s. There is no glyph anymore; it's baked into the RvS debuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by regularcustomer View Post
    [A bunch of stuff about agi vs haste and puzzles and Noxxic]
    First, don't listen to Noxxic. It's consistently inaccurate.

    Second, ShC will give you an accurate picture of stat weights for your gear. This is backed up by actual math, and not just wanting a faster rotation.

    Again, I don't really know what you're saying, but a lot of your information is inaccurate. If you could consolidate your point into a complete sentence or two, that would help.

  4. #4
    Good grief, this is atrocious English. Obvious it's not a first language, but DAMN.

    1)- I don't think rogues should have a perk for more expertise, because I think expertise and hit rating should be removed from the game. The munge with gear scaling up and down, need to be capped, and are only "interesting" because their presence makes you need a perl script to actually reforge your gear properly.

    2)- The tooltip on hit and expertise are accurate. There is a base miss chance, higher for higher level targets. For white hits, this has +24% miss or something added to it. Hit reduces these chances. There is a chance for dodge and parry- expertise first works against dodge chance, then against parry chance.

    3)-
    Combat - does have a lot of energy regen mugajack pointed that out but the combo gens cost 40 energy. when both used your down to 20 energy considering 100 energy on the bar. and then the off hand energy procs etc. it's not consistent with stability.
    This is incorrect. If you could use both sinister and revealing at the same moment, it would cost you around 80 energy, but instead both are on the global. If you press a 40 energy move, you'll gain back at least 12 energy during that global, so the net cost is really reduced by however much energy you gain back in a second. In practice you should be able to easily press revealing, sinister, sinister, sinister from max pool. The ability to go ooe is not sputtering, it is energy actually being a resource. It should happen more often so we can do things like, pool energy in yellow.



    Overall, you are throwing a few unrelated things together- but ultimately, the specs are different. Mutilate costing a lot of energy and sinister not can be used to make general statements, but not to analyze the flow of either spec, just as jab being inexpensive is not relevant to our concerns.

    You are interested in theorycrafting, but it's more complex than just looking at energy costs and combo point returns- something like Simcraft actually accounts for all the damage sources, such as deadly procs, combat mastery procs, cooldown usage, offhand hit damage, etc. Something like Shadowcraft models all of these things. Look into that stuff instead of assuming a high level analysis is appropriate for the type of compare you are trying to do..

  5. #5
    what exactly is he trying to say ? i mean i stopped reading after the first 2 sentences.
    i was all like O_o ?
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  6. #6
    That was some of least coherent and most poorly formatted writing I've ever seen. It's not really a matter of slowing down, you just need to reformat your thread.

  7. #7
    Well I don't really understand what he's saying but from what I gather he basically wants more energy regen on rogues to speed up the gameplay. Something that's covered in just about every thread here.

  8. #8
    Since the incoherence of this thread, at this time, is more likely to cause trouble than to provoke more thoughtful responses, I'm going to close it.

    Thanks to those who responded to what appear to be the concerns of the post - and regularcustomer, if you edit the OP so that it can be read and people can follow the post, PM me so I can check it over to make sure it's coherent to reopen it.

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