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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    We have infinite sprint now if you want to fun fast.
    There is a reason no one uses Burst of Speed in competitive play. This is liken to suggesting that if you think Recuperate doesn't heal enough that you should take Leeching Poison.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by angryplateguy View Post
    Hey friend, agility gives rogues/monks/shaman/hunters/druids crit. Deal with slightly less avoidance, seriously I registered because your ignorance drove me nuts.
    Err... sorry man, plate classes have higher base damage on moves. It's not like that extra crit percent turns into extra damage.


    I'm genuinely puzzled about the str and agi conversion. It was a bad idea at the time (I complained about it when they added it), and remains a bad idea now. Frontal avoidance has always been what rogues had INSTEAD of armor.
    But- I will point out that Reckful has a large amount of pvp resilience, and is specced subtlety, whereas the ret is gemmed primary strength. Sub increases the amount of agility you have by a percent, and its possible Blizzard both assumed all rogues are sub, and then balanced the return around that. If Reckful was in similar gems (agi in red, agi/stuff in others), I'm not sure he wouldn't have the same avoidance.

    Still an issue, IMO- a combat rogue wouldn't have nearly that much agi, and he lost his 6% parry long ago.



    Anyway, rogues are legit pretty mobile, and can stealth. The mobility benefits of leather armor don't mean "can charge", they are more about "can shadowstep or burst of speed".

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-29 at 06:09 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by achromatickang View Post
    There is a reason no one uses Burst of Speed in competitive play. This is liken to suggesting that if you think Recuperate doesn't heal enough that you should take Leeching Poison.
    Well, there's certainly things warriors have that aren't useful in competitive play as well. Burst of speed is ludicrously useful in a lot of this game, even if it doesn't make the grade in most arena comps.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-29 at 06:11 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by angryplateguy View Post
    The entire thread friend, the entire thread.

    You're arguing that plate should give less avoidance, I guess. But the thing is, agility gives three benefits. AP Crit and dodge. strength is just ap and parry. So like I said, deal with it.
    Again, plate moves are balanced around having to buy crit from crit rating. Rogue moves (and cats, and windwalkers, and enhancement, and hunters) are not. These classes and specs are all balanced around a high crit rating from agility, and that's all there is to it. The fact that there's an "extra benefit" that doesn't GRANT you a benefit, doesn't matter.
    Last edited by Verain; 2013-06-29 at 06:18 AM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post

    Well, there's certainly things warriors have that aren't useful in competitive play as well. Burst of speed is ludicrously useful in a lot of this game, even if it doesn't make the grade in most arena comps.[COLOR="red"]
    .
    I would love to see Burst of Speed brought up to scale. If it worked similarly to Tiger's Lust I think it would be a way more viable talent. Unfortunately in current MoP I can't really afford the energy costs of BoS, nor does it help with one of major problems (being rooted).

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Err... sorry man, plate classes have higher base damage on moves. It's not like that extra crit percent turns into extra damage.


    I'm genuinely puzzled about the str and agi conversion. It was a bad idea at the time (I complained about it when they added it), and remains a bad idea now. Frontal avoidance has always been what rogues had INSTEAD of armor.



    Anyway, rogues are legit pretty mobile, and can stealth. The mobility benefits of leather armor don't mean "can charge", they are more about "can shadowstep or burst of speed".

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-29 at 06:09 AM ----------



    Well, there's certainly things warriors have that aren't useful in competitive play as well. Burst of speed is ludicrously useful in a lot of this game, even if it doesn't make the grade in most arena comps.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-29 at 06:11 AM ----------



    Again, plate moves are balanced around having to buy crit from crit rating. Rogue moves (and cats, and windwalkers, and enhancement, and hunters) are not. These classes and specs are all balanced around a high crit rating from agility, and that's all there is to it. The fact that there's an "extra benefit" that doesn't GRANT you a benefit, doesn't matter.
    Wouldn't that be the problem then? That fury warriors are forced into stacking crit rating from every gem, regardless of socket bonuses. -usually- I mean, ret doesn't suffer as badly, but they also don't really get to scale well. Unholy death knights really don't care about crit too much.

    Also that same line of thought can be used here. Is a rogue REALLY supposed to face tank anything? Isn't your thing disables where you stun, get behind don't care about getting parried because it can't happen from behind? If you're pulling the, "strength classes are balanced with lower crit in mind" card, I'm pulling the "Agility classes have plenty of active defense cooldowns" card. And some of those classes, rogues and hunters, have resets on them. -Do rogues still have to spec for prep? I know they did at the beginning of mop.-

    Basically, frontal avoidance should be almost useless to a rogue since you're supposed to not get hit by using your sprint and evasion and vanish and everything else. I mean, warriors can't be perfectly invisible forever or anything of the sort. (Obviously rogues aren't perfectly invisible forever.) You do get that neato 3 seconds of stealth while wailing on people though, surely that makes up for what? 6% avoidance tops?
    Last edited by angryplateguy; 2013-06-29 at 06:20 AM.

  5. #45
    Closing this thread.

    It's been drawn WAY off topic (movement/incoming damage comparison between leather and non-leather classes in WoW), into discussions which are becoming heated, unrelated, and in a rogue vs. the world viewpoint. There isn't a way to discuss class balance through asking how a specific class or spec gems, or what stats contribute to what in PvP. Since that's where we've ended up, this thread has nowhere to go.

    Closing comment to the OP - I'd see the comments about sprint, BoS, and Shadowstep. Those three really embody the original non-magical (or slightly magical - Shadowstep) ideas that rogues should be utterly mobile. Many other classes have received a magical movement advantage - although a rogue who really spends all of their energy (ha, ha, get it?) should be able to keep up all the time with burst of speed. Warrior-charge, idk. That plate is HEAVY man, but whatever, it works in game.

    An important sidenote: If you think someone is trolling, report the post and move on. Replying to call someone a troll is a form of spam. Come on folks.
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-06-29 at 06:57 AM. Reason: fixed original thread intent

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