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  1. #1

    Shouldn't there be an advantage to wearing leather armor?

    It sort of annoys me that I'm playing this agile class who wears light weight armor, yet I frequently get outrun by Paladins and Death Knights, and don't even have a fraction of the mobility a Plate wearing warrior has.

    I used to ignore this completely because Ghostcrawler had always said that plate versus leather isn't really relevant in modern WoW.

    But when Find Weakness was nerfed against plate wearers I really had to ask myself what the trade off was? Why should my monk or feral druid get hit harder than my death knight if their damage avoidance isn't any higher?

  2. #2
    Immortal Quetzl's Avatar
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    The modern WoW is not a reflection of realistic fantasy (or an attempt thereof). It's a math equation poorly disguised by graphics.

  3. #3
    Ferals and monks are the most mobile classes in the game. They can out run and outmaneuver any other class. Rogues have stealth, sprint, and the abiltiy to keep up a 70% increased speed buff with 100% up-time.

    Dk's have no sprint. Pally's have a very short sprint. Warriors can charge and leap. None of them can outrun you.

    I suppose if you don't use any skills that have been given to you, then yes, you might get outrun.

  4. #4
    Leather use to have a "avoidance perk" now all the plate classes have more parry than sub has dodge with 30% bonus agi....

    But one thing to remember this is mop and rogues have been shit in pvp for 85% of it. Just hope they do something in 5.4...
    Last edited by wow; 2013-06-29 at 03:55 AM.

  5. #5
    isn't their outrunning you dependent on some magic?

  6. #6
    Scarab Lord Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achromatickang View Post
    It sort of annoys me that I'm playing this agile class who wears light weight armor, yet I frequently get outrun by Paladins and Death Knights, and don't even have a fraction of the mobility a Plate wearing warrior has.

    I used to ignore this completely because Ghostcrawler had always said that plate versus leather isn't really relevant in modern WoW.

    But when Find Weakness was nerfed against plate wearers I really had to ask myself what the trade off was? Why should my monk or feral druid get hit harder than my death knight if their damage avoidance isn't any higher?
    A) You actually don't get hit much harder then dps plate toons- you take around 15% more damage then a plate dps. Plate tank WILL take about 50% less damage then you, but thats a perk of being a tank.

    B) As a rogue, you have higher baseline avoidance- about 7% more dodge/parry then your plate counterpart's dodge/parry. While armor will help you survive a bit longer during a stun, dodging that one colossal smash could save you.

    C) A portion of your damage ignores armor (Bleeds, Poisons). Granted, as sub, this isnt a large portion, but its a portion nonetheless.

    D) How are you getting outran by paladins/DKs? They may have a shorter CD on their sprint, but Sprint itself can have a higher speed (100% potential). You also have Shadowstep (Paladins don't have this, DKs have Death Grip) or Burst of Speed (snare breaker, 70% movement for 4 seconds, spammable)

    Rogues have more mobility then paladins/DKs. (Warriors have charge/intervene/heroic leap on short cooldowns, but instant mobility has been their thing forever. Thus, they are the only melee without some sort of baseline movement speed increase).

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-29 at 03:58 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Impaktx View Post
    Ferals and monks are the most mobile classes in the game. They can out run and outmaneuver any other class. Rogues have stealth, sprint, and the abiltiy to keep up a 70% increased speed buff with 100% up-time.

    Dk's have no sprint. Pally's have a very short sprint. Warriors can charge and leap. None of them can outrun you.

    I suppose if you don't use any skills that have been given to you, then yes, you might get outrun.
    DKs have a 6 second duration 30 second cooldown 40% sprint- brings unholy up to 80% movement speed for 6 seconds, and they can't be reduced below 100% of normal movement speed. I don't actually see many DKs with this though, most of them either have 5 second stunnage or constant slows.
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  7. #7
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achromatickang View Post
    It sort of annoys me that I'm playing this agile class who wears light weight armor, yet I frequently get outrun by Paladins and Death Knights, and don't even have a fraction of the mobility a Plate wearing warrior has.

    I used to ignore this completely because Ghostcrawler had always said that plate versus leather isn't really relevant in modern WoW.

    But when Find Weakness was nerfed against plate wearers I really had to ask myself what the trade off was? Why should my monk or feral druid get hit harder than my death knight if their damage avoidance isn't any higher?
    And you'd think that swords would plunge straight through leather and cloth, and daggers and arrows would simply dink right off of plate.

    But nope...
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    A) You actually don't get hit much harder then dps plate toons- you take around 15% more damage then a plate dps. Plate tank WILL take about 50% less damage then you, but thats a perk of being a tank.

    B) As a rogue, you have higher baseline avoidance- about 7% more dodge/parry then your plate counterpart's dodge/parry. While armor will help you survive a bit longer during a stun, dodging that one colossal smash could save you.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...uards/advanced
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ckful/advanced

    Reckful has more agi than vanguards has str but vanguards has more parry than reck has dodge. Plate gets more avoidance and takes less physical dmg awesome game.....
    Last edited by wow; 2013-06-29 at 04:12 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post

    Reckful has more agi than vanguards has str but vanguards has more parry than reck has dodge. Plate gets more avoidance and takes less physical dmg awesome game.....
    Hey friend, agility gives rogues/monks/shaman/hunters/druids crit. Deal with slightly less avoidance, seriously I registered because your ignorance drove me nuts.

    Infracted: trolling
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-06-29 at 07:03 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by angryplateguy View Post
    Hey friend, agility gives rogues/monks/shaman/hunters/druids crit. Deal with slightly less avoidance, seriously I registered because your ignorance drove me nuts.
    Did you even read what I was replying to?

  11. #11
    The entire thread friend, the entire thread.

    You're arguing that plate should give less avoidance, I guess. But the thing is, agility gives three benefits. AP Crit and dodge. strength is just ap and parry. So like I said, deal with it.
    Last edited by angryplateguy; 2013-06-29 at 04:22 AM. Reason: incomplete statement!

  12. #12
    Oh I see you're just going to troll from here on out going to stop replying now.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    Oh I see you're just going to troll from here on out going to stop replying now.
    This just in, replying with logic is now trolling.

  14. #14
    As much of a douche he is, angryplateguy is right.

    Infracted: flaming/spam
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-06-29 at 07:05 AM.

  15. #15
    The thread is beyond stupid but Angryplateguy does make a valid arguement, both class's get something from there main stat, part of agi is crit, there is nothing else to see here.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by angryplateguy View Post
    This just in, replying with logic is now trolling.
    So its replying with logic to say
    Quote Originally Posted by angryplateguy View Post
    Hey friend, agility gives rogues/monks/shaman/hunters/druids crit. Deal with slightly less avoidance, seriously I registered because your ignorance drove me nuts.
    to
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...uards/advanced
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ckful/advanced

    Reckful has more agi than vanguards has str but vanguards has more parry than reck has dodge. Plate gets more avoidance and takes less physical dmg awesome game.....
    Which was replying to
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    B) As a rogue, you have higher baseline avoidance- about 7% more dodge/parry then your plate counterpart's dodge/parry. While armor will help you survive a bit longer during a stun, dodging that one colossal smash could save you.
    So me saying that to him was my ignorance and you saying what you said to me was logic got ya. Definitely not a troll....

    I was correcting bad information you posted an opinion and said my ignorance drove you nuts right....
    Last edited by wow; 2013-06-29 at 04:42 AM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    The modern WoW is not a reflection of realistic fantasy (or an attempt thereof). It's a math equation poorly disguised by graphics.
    This quote holds the answer you seek. Typically you'd see plate classes absorbing a lot of damage, whereas leather classes would attempt to avoid it. Leather classes would be passively much faster as well but again, this is WoW. It is hardly even an RPG anymore.

  18. #18
    Actually there was a time that the type of armor you were wearing would matter a lot more than now. Back in TBC, rogues used to scratch plate classes. Now, it seems like extra armor does nothing.

    Concerning armor and speed, unfortunately this isn't D'n'D. Normally, a plate character should not in any circumstance run as fast as a cloth or leather class, but then either he would need extra defenses to cover up for lost dps, or the leather class should be able to deal decent damage only from behind (sneak attack).

    Life is a series of choices between bad and worse.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    So its replying with logic to say

    to

    Which was replying to


    So me saying that to him was my ignorance and you saying what you said to me was logic got ya. Definitely not a troll....

    I was correcting bad information you posted an opinion and said my ignorance drove you nuts right....
    You said bad game or whatever, I was pointing out that AGILITY servers multiple secondary stats, not just one. I'd gladly give up an extra couple % of parry, you eek out a nice 7-8% of crit! I mean, that's really good.

    Reckful gets what 9.35% of his crit from his 5.6k crit rating. out of 22.31, that's not entirely a lot. Everyone gets 5% base, so he's getting just under 9% from pure agility. He also happens to get 13.88% dodge from his 16.7k agility. Man, I'd kill to get crit from strength, when my unholy dk has nearly 22k strength. I mean, that'd be over 10% crit, and all I'd lose is my like what, around 6% parry tops? I could deal with that.

    I still don't see how its trolling to argue that crit+dodge is better than say, just dodge. (Or in this case, strength only giving parry as a secondary, obviously both give AP)

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by angryplateguy View Post
    You said bad game or whatever, I was pointing out that AGILITY servers multiple secondary stats, not just one. I'd gladly give up an extra couple % of parry, you eek out a nice 7-8% of crit! I mean, that's really good.

    Reckful gets what 9.35% of his crit from his 5.6k crit rating. out of 22.31, that's not entirely a lot. Everyone gets 5% base, so he's getting just under 9% from pure agility. He also happens to get 13.88% dodge from his 16.7k agility. Man, I'd kill to get crit from strength, when my unholy dk has nearly 22k strength. I mean, that'd be over 10% crit, and all I'd lose is my like what, around 6% parry tops? I could deal with that.

    I still don't see how its trolling to argue that crit+dodge is better than say, just dodge. (Or in this case, strength only giving parry as a secondary, obviously both give AP)
    Without wanting to seem hostile, this how RPGs worked over the years: Rogues and the like crit more often but weaker, warriors and the like crit less often but stronger. It is easier to hit a vital spot with a precise weapon as a dagger. But it hurts much more if you manage to hit it with a greatsword.

    Life is a series of choices between bad and worse.

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