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  1. #101
    Scarab Lord namelessone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuinthalasKT View Post
    I raided hardcore in Vanilla up until WOTLK. Was casual during Cata due to work, and took a break in MoP.

    Work schedule is now stable again and would like to raid hardcore again, yet I am getting blocked by bad RNG in the LFR, and it is taking forever to do grind these 40 reps (exaggeration, I know.)

    All guilds expect 520+ ilvl, are they mad?

    I am 505 atm, and I am outdpsing people with 520 in heroics/scenarios/LFR, why don't guilds accept me just because of the ilvl, what happened to skill?

    i honestly feel like unsubbing, I fill out applications very seriously and am very thorough, just to get literally insulted and laughed at in the comments section of my app by guild officers because of my ilvl.

    What has happened to WoW?
    Did you know raiders are complaining how they can't fill guilds and can't get enough people to raid? Yes, the same raiders that turn you off, complain about lack of new blood. It's totally a fault of LFR.
    The night is dark and full of terrors...

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post
    Crafted gear is not worth its costs.
    But if you want to join a good raiding guild, it should be easily worth its cost if you can afford it. It shows that you are seriously trying - something worth more to a lot of guilds then ilvl.

    When you have the mindset of "nah I don't enchant or gem, I'll get better gear soon" and don't do LFR or other means to get better gear (Nalak for tier pants, Oondasta, hc-scenarios for 516 ilvl gear, quest for boots, valor gear) then you are not worth a trial.

  3. #103
    Scarab Lord namelessone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryva View Post
    But if you want to join a good raiding guild, it should be easily worth its cost if you can afford it. It shows that you are seriously trying - something worth more to a lot of guilds then ilvl.

    When you have the mindset of "nah I don't enchant or gem, I'll get better gear soon" and don't do LFR or other means to get better gear (Nalak for tier pants, Oondasta, hc-scenarios for 516 ilvl gear, quest for boots, valor gear) then you are not worth a trial.
    Good raiding guilds are folding left and right because players don't want to jump through hoops to join (understandably). I'm thinking maybe raiding guilds need to pull the stick out of their *backsides* and actually meet the potential recruits half way?
    The night is dark and full of terrors...

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by QuinthalasKT View Post
    I raided hardcore in Vanilla up until WOTLK. Was casual during Cata due to work, and took a break in MoP.

    Work schedule is now stable again and would like to raid hardcore again, yet I am getting blocked by bad RNG in the LFR, and it is taking forever to do grind these 40 reps (exaggeration, I know.)

    All guilds expect 520+ ilvl, are they mad?

    I am 505 atm, and I am outdpsing people with 520 in heroics/scenarios/LFR, why don't guilds accept me just because of the ilvl, what happened to skill?

    i honestly feel like unsubbing, I fill out applications very seriously and am very thorough, just to get literally insulted and laughed at in the comments section of my app by guild officers because of my ilvl.

    What has happened to WoW?
    If you have a way to prove that you aren't doing poorly with 505 ilevel (logs), very few intelligent people will laugh at you. With no proof, it's common to assume you will perform as well as the average 505 player. Why would you expect raiding guilds to take a chance on you? If you are submitting proof and people are ignoring it, then the truth is that you'd rather not play with those people anyway. They're bad and unaware of that fact.

    If you want a reason based on my anecdotal personal experience, I'll say that everyone we've ever tried to play with that's more than 13 ilevels behind our average fails to perform. Not failing to meet unreasonable numbers based on higher ilevels, but failing to meet even moderate standards based on their own ilevels. I haven't found a player yet in this expansion with a 13 ilevel or more gap that hasn't let me down after I've given them a chance.

    These people are the types that won't ever read the strategies you write for them, won't ever look at logs, won't Valor cap, and are essentially looking for a free ride to some gear for a few weeks to kill time. Again, though, that's just my personal experience after having given plenty of players in your position a shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by namelessone View Post
    Good raiding guilds are folding left and right because players don't want to jump through hoops to join (understandably). I'm thinking maybe raiding guilds need to pull the stick out of their *backsides* and actually meet the potential recruits half way?
    It's hard to do that when folks even in your main raid roster are incapable of making progress on a fight you're working on. To lower your standards and move backwards would simply mean that you're giving up on progression for the tier (and probably the remainder of the expansion.) It would be a different story if every raider on the roster was perfect and I was demanding perfection from every applicant, but that's simply not the case by any stretch of the imagination.

    I play the game to have fun, but generally in unison with progression, not at the expense of. Therefore, I don't have certain requirements for applicants because I want to, but because I have to. I don't have any sort of stick up my ass that makes me think everyone who applies is unworthy. Unfortunately, not every person that applies is capable of raiding at a high level. That's not something I made up to look down on applicants, but rather an intrinsic truth of raiding; it's not for everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by namelessone View Post
    Did you know raiders are complaining how they can't fill guilds and can't get enough people to raid? Yes, the same raiders that turn you off, complain about lack of new blood. It's totally a fault of LFR.
    I complain about not getting enough people to raid, but I've been doing so since WotLK. Back then, it was my inexperience in comparison to my current rankings. These days, it does have a lot to do with players conditioned to seeing new gear frequently, being able to down bosses via improvisation rather than study and practice, and the solo aspect of the game that's entirely focused on oneself until you hit Normal mode raids. A lot of that is due to the human nature that drives players to push for tools like LFR.

    Keep in mind, Heroic Raiding as a game is not very hard, the challenge is in the logistics. It's also not very time consuming. I've seen at least one 9hr/week guild with 13/13H and plenty of 12h guilds. Regardless, players don't want to meet that tiny, tiny requirement because they're wired to be impatient and want things for free. When Blizzard enables this behavior and adds incentives to it via things like LFR, players expect more (If you give a mouse a cookie, and all that.) Because of this expectation, less players are inclined to move forward with the minor commitment of raiding, and therefore less new blood shows up in people's rosters.
    Last edited by Frogged; 2013-06-29 at 05:31 AM.
    "I realized it is the struggle itself that is the most important. We must strive to be more than we are. It does not matter that we will never reach our ultimate goal. The effort yields its own rewards." -Data

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by namelessone View Post
    Good raiding guilds are folding left and right because players don't want to jump through hoops to join (understandably). I'm thinking maybe raiding guilds need to pull the stick out of their *backsides* and actually meet the potential recruits half way?
    If playing the game and trying to get good gear outside of nhc/hc raids is jumping through hoops for you then you are not good for any team.

    Half way is meeting someone without the same ilvl as everyone else in a raid, but taking him on as a trial anyway. But he has to show that he is worth the effort. So the applicant has to go half the distance too. A guild can't go all the way and recruit you when you put in no effort at all.

  6. #106

    Always Looking

    Quote Originally Posted by namelessone View Post
    Did you know raiders are complaining how they can't fill guilds and can't get enough people to raid? Yes, the same raiders that turn you off, complain about lack of new blood. It's totally a fault of LFR.
    I run a guild that hasn't started raiding, mostly because no one sticks around long enough. I wouldn't expect anyone to be that high of an Item Level to Raid. I would recommend having a slightly higher level than is required to enter lfr but that is all. I am still looking to fill spots in our guild so we can start progressing as a team. I am also looking for leaders who are willing to help out the inexperienced. If you're interested, just let me know maybe we can get something started. I am on the Azuremyst-us server and play mostly on weekends, Monday and Tuesday Mornings as well as the afternoons on the other days.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by namelessone View Post
    Did you know raiders are complaining how they can't fill guilds and can't get enough people to raid? Yes, the same raiders that turn you off, complain about lack of new blood. It's totally a fault of LFR.
    Up to the point where you said "It's totally a fault of LFR" you had a good observation going.

  8. #108
    Scarab Lord namelessone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    Up to the point where you said "It's totally a fault of LFR" you had a good observation going.
    Up to that point I was not being sarcastic.
    The night is dark and full of terrors...

  9. #109
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    It's not all about gear. Prime example for me would be getting accepted into a guild on Heroic Madness of Deathwing at 5% buff. Was severely under geared and did a lot less damage then everyone in my class (Rogue). But I knew the mechanics. I learned quick and I didn't mess up. Gear is an easily obtainable TOOL. you just need to find those people and get them to give you your chance

  10. #110
    Does no one run through a heroic with someone to gauge their skill anymore? You can trial at much lower risk.
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  11. #111
    Scarab Lord namelessone's Avatar
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    Someone's gear, at least in my opinion (and experience) is FAR from the most important quality of a recruit. I can name at least a few things that should be a lot more important than gear for a long term success:
    - Loyalty. You don't want a guild-hopper.
    - Maturity. You want someone who understands that a game is a game and wouldn't cause drama of any kind.
    - Being able to understand and follow instructions.
    - Punctuality. Being on time and prepared.
    I'd take a person with these four characteristics even if it was fresh 90. On the other hand if someone acts like a dick, I wouldn't want him no matter how skilled and dedicated he is.
    The night is dark and full of terrors...

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by namelessone View Post
    Up to that point I was not being sarcastic.
    To be fair it is hard to 'hear' sarcasm in a text based medium.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-29 at 08:30 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Angella View Post
    Does no one run through a heroic with someone to gauge their skill anymore? You can trial at much lower risk.
    A better trial is in LFR, where you will get a majority of the raid mechanics and you can see how the player performs in a raid like environment that anyone can use at their leisure rather than using scheduled guild raid time to check out a player that may potentially of lied about their abilities.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by namelessone View Post
    Up to that point I was not being sarcastic.
    Yes, I didn't "hear" the sarcasm.

  14. #114
    Because due to the Looking For Retards system, the number of raid guilds have gone down, way down, and these guilds that remain usually are fully staffed and don't really have room for more unless the applicant is sporting some great gear and experience.

    It's quite simple actually. One would have a lot more chances to get into a raid guild if there were 50 raid guilds on his server and faction, like before Cata, than if there were just 5.

  15. #115
    Everyone only wants folks with 530 ilvl and at least 4/13H and than they complain that they cant find recruits.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by araine View Post
    Everyone only wants folks with 530 ilvl and at least 4/13H and than they complain that they cant find recruits.
    Because they don't really need more players unless their gear level is on par with the guild's current progression level, which obviously isn't going to happen with your average Looking For Retards hero, and their ads are mainly directed at raiders from other raid guilds or newly transfered players ?

  17. #117
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    Put out a self promotion add at WoWprogress. I did that when I found myself in a guild that stopped raiding after the christmas. Within 4 days I had 10 people that wanted to give me a spot. They might not be the highest progressed guilds, but they can be your foot in. This is assuming you have logs to back your claims.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    It's you OP, not the game. I know at least 2 guilds that would take in a shit geared guy that is reliable and skilled letting him gear up with them. Actually chatting with recruiters instead of filling out applications might also be a good idea for you since you don't have hard evidence of your awesomeness.
    It actually could be his server too. When I was on Stormreaver during Cataclysm I couldn't find a guild that would take me for anything, I transferred to Blackrock, immediately joined a guild and was further progressed within a matter of hours than the best guild on Stormreaver at that time.

    I also have trouble getting into raids on some of my DPS characters (despite regularly maxing the meters), but have the same people beg me to join when I'm playing my healer or tank.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by jbombard View Post
    Back in vanilla when only 2% of the players raided, they had a much harder time to get people to join them and guilds worked their ass of to get recruits geared up and skilled up. They were constantly doing old raids to help new players. Today they want the player to contribute and commit to the guild, but they don't want to do jack for the player. Actually a lot of guilds are dieing off because they can't fill spots, and they are blaming LFR instead of looking back and realizing that if they aren't doing anything to earn the dedication and loyalty of their guild members those guild members are just gonna bail as soon as a better guild doing better on progression has a spot open. It is no longer about the the players, everyone is disposable for the sake of progression. I remember when MMORPGs were actually about the people playing them.
    Excellent post.

  20. #120
    Playing a healer I am able to skip most of the stupidity that surrounds recruiting these days, but people are just way too obsessed with numbers. There is ultimately one reason for this, gameplay. What defines a good DPS player? The ability to produce maximum DPS output while properly taking care of the boss mechanics. This has always been the case in Wow, but over the years people just started treating the mechanics as inevitable trial and error while DPS numbers as the true skill of the player. No matter how good you are your ilvl will always create the baseline for your numbers and even as little as 10 ilvl makes a huge difference.

    Instead of looking for people who are good at executing mechanics the guilds today just look for people who are geared so that they don't have to waste time gearing them up and slowing down progression. Of course in reality the whole concept of progression raiding is executing the mechanics correctly since the less mistakes your people make the less likely you'll have people die and/or the easier it will be to avoid enrage timers. Many progression raids these days fall apart just because of their ignorance in building their team.

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