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  1. #121
    We only ask for around 490 but we don't do heroics just 25 man normal currently (nearly finished), bring the player.

  2. #122
    You're applying at the wrong time, wait till after the progression cycle. I also do not believe you cannot find a guild, i know for a fact there are many mid tier guilds (rank 200-1000) that do not care about iLv at all. Write a good application, you may be surprised.

  3. #123
    Mechagnome Raidboss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuinthalasKT View Post
    I raided hardcore in Vanilla up until WOTLK. Was casual during Cata due to work, and took a break in MoP.

    Work schedule is now stable again and would like to raid hardcore again, yet I am getting blocked by bad RNG in the LFR, and it is taking forever to do grind these 40 reps (exaggeration, I know.)

    All guilds expect 520+ ilvl, are they mad?

    I am 505 atm, and I am outdpsing people with 520 in heroics/scenarios/LFR, why don't guilds accept me just because of the ilvl, what happened to skill?

    i honestly feel like unsubbing, I fill out applications very seriously and am very thorough, just to get literally insulted and laughed at in the comments section of my app by guild officers because of my ilvl.

    What has happened to WoW?
    What server do you play on? I've pug cleared ToT normal 2 weeks in a row on Stormrage. The guild I'm in is 3/13H but my play times don't match up. I see PUGs everyday in trade. Some are guild runs that just need an extra player or two but some are just straight up PUGs. Long and short you can gear up through PUGs and LFR if you need to but doubt you'll have an issue on a big PvE server like Stormrage or Sargeras.

  4. #124
    This was quite an amusing read.

    People saying you need "ilvl" to join a guild?

    Back in TBC/Wrath you were invited as a trial for one raid where you could only get loot that nobody else needed and if you were good then you would stay. Was a bit annoying without the attunment but running TK for the mount was always fun & a good indicator if someone would be able to keep up.

  5. #125
    What I suggest to you is the following:

    1. Pug normal content on a decent server [move if you have to (the price you pay for taking a break)].
    2. It will take you at least 2-3 weeks to get 520 depending on gear, maybe more.
    3. Some pugs on Kazzak/Ravencrest/Silvermoon..etc are making 12/12 + 1 or 2 HC bosses with 515 gear requirement, try to get into those.
    4. With the upgrade vendor , it will not take long for you to get 520 gear.


    *note: 520 gear is not the issue, but it's the fix you want.
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  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    This is very sad to see... basically the only measurement of Wow raiders skills these days is your ilvl.

    Its great that u have broken down exactly what the OP needs to do in order to get that ilvl up... but its not the point he was making. Hes asking why raiding guilds dont recruit players on their experience as top level raiders anymore.

    Whats the point of apps when all u need to do is stand in front of the GM and let him inspect your ilvl?
    You are reading it entirely wrong. Someone's ilvl (up to a point - probably around 522) is a measure of how much work they have put in to their character to get themselves geared through easily accessible means that don't require a guild to give things to you (LFR, VP gear, rep gear, craftable epicsl, even some normal mode PUG runs, etc). When getting to a 520+ ilvl is easily attainable, the assumption that will be made of someone with a 505 ilvl is that they are too lazy to put the work in to get accessible upgrades and want to be carried. That says a lot about how much the player actually cares and is willing to put in the work to improve themselves. Don't try and dismiss it as "lol Gearscore".

  7. #127
    Pandaren Monk Of-the-horde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmot View Post
    What I suggest to you is the following:

    1. Pug normal content on a decent server [move if you have to (the price you pay for taking a break)].
    2. It will take you at least 2-3 weeks to get 520 depending on gear, maybe more.
    3. Some pugs on Kazzak/Ravencrest/Silvermoon..etc are making 12/12 + 1 or 2 HC bosses with 515 gear requirement, try to get into those.
    4. With the upgrade vendor , it will not take long for you to get 520 gear.


    *note: 520 gear is not the issue, but it's the fix you want.
    Heya I play on kazzak and I'm ilvl 521 but nobody would take me in a tot pug without Ahead of the curve: Lei Shen.
    So is there a way to fake the achievement or what should be done? This is a major problem here not the ilvl but the fact that you don't have the achievements.
    I remember in Wotlk there were achievements but people would take you to an ICC pug anytime with just 5k gearscore but this seems to have changed over the years.

  8. #128
    Epic! Lei Shi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurenguard View Post
    Heya I play on kazzak and I'm ilvl 521 but nobody would take me in a tot pug without Ahead of the curve: Lei Shen.
    Why would anyone join a pug for it if they already completed Lei Shen anyway? Unless it's a HC pug.

    Sure it's easy to get 520+ by VP gear, but that only if you don't care about your stats and itemisation. If you stick with gear that actually have useful stats then 510-512 is pretty much the highest you can get.
    502 item with 2 good stats (haste/mastery) for your spec is better than a 522 item with 2 bad stats (hit/crit, if hit capped).

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by tibbee View Post
    You are reading it entirely wrong. Someone's ilvl (up to a point - probably around 522) is a measure of how much work they have put in to their character to get themselves geared through easily accessible means that don't require a guild to give things to you (LFR, VP gear, rep gear, craftable epicsl, even some normal mode PUG runs, etc). When getting to a 520+ ilvl is easily attainable, the assumption that will be made of someone with a 505 ilvl is that they are too lazy to put the work in to get accessible upgrades and want to be carried. That says a lot about how much the player actually cares and is willing to put in the work to improve themselves. Don't try and dismiss it as "lol Gearscore".
    Im not reading it wrong at all.

    The OP said his raiding experience is very good and he has raided at a high level. Hes taken a break from Wow and now hes back hes trying to get into a good raiding guild. Hes saying that the ONLY thing guilds want is ilvl and theyre ignoring his previous skill as a raider.

    Guilds have never been so narrowminded in their recruitment. Sure some guilds around atm might look at more than his ilvl but the truth is that the ilvl recruitment is more common now than ever before.

    I answered the "lol gearscore" a few posts back... that was something that was requested for pugs back at the end of Wrath. I dont remember it ever being the most important aspect on a guild app form. And i ran a 25man raiding guild back then so i know what all the other guilds had on their apps too.
    Last edited by Endemonadia; 2013-06-29 at 02:17 PM.

  10. #130
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurenguard View Post
    So is there a way to fake the achievement or what should be done? This is a major problem here not the ilvl but the fact that you don't have the achievements.
    Use Underachiever.
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  11. #131
    I can see that beeing a problem with 10man guilds, but any decent 25man raiding guild that is done with the tier will accept any geared player if they are worth their time. Gearing someone up takes 2-3 lockouts, show in the application that you understand your role in a raid and your class, and you'll eventually find a guild that will take you in.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    Im not reading it wrong at all.

    The OP said his raiding experience is very good and he has raided at a high level. Hes taken a break from Wow and now hes back hes trying to get into a good raiding guild. Hes saying that the ONLY thing guilds want is ilvl and theyre ignoring his previous skill as a raider.

    Guilds have never been so narrowminded in their recruitment. Sure some guilds around atm might look at more than his ivl but the truth is that the ilvl recruitment is more common now than ever before.

    I answered the "lol gearscore" a few posts back... that was something that was requested for pugs back at the end of Wrath. I dont remember it ever being the most important aspect on a guild app form. And i ran a 25man raiding guild back then so i know what all the other guilds had on their apps too.
    But, he also has easily accessible upgrades to bring his ilvl up closer to on par with what is needed to be useful to guilds that are still progressing - it just takes gold and a few weeks of running dailies, valor capping, etc. If you expect to get into a guild based on past raiding experience but are not willing to put the work in to get accessible upgrades before applying, you are essentially saying "I think I am too good to put the effort in, please let me skip that and throw loot at me". On top of that, he is just coming back from an extended break. If I am a guild considering accepting him, I would wonder if he is going to go on another extended break, especially because he isn't willing to put the basic investment of time and catch up in before we start throwing loot at him.

    People should not complain about guilds balking at accepting them when they are not willing to put in the time and do the basics to progress their own characters before applying. It comes across as being lazy and entitled.

  13. #133
    I've come back from a hiatus before to raid hardcore and its not easy. To go into heroics undergeared I had to interview for like 2 hours to sell myself. You need good logs, you need to sell yourself, you need to show you know what you're doing, you need a lengthy and thorough app and you need to note your top guild experience.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbombard View Post
    Back in vanilla when only 2% of the players raided, they had a much harder time to get people to join them and guilds worked their ass of to get recruits geared up and skilled up. They were constantly doing old raids to help new players. Today they want the player to contribute and commit to the guild, but they don't want to do jack for the player. Actually a lot of guilds are dieing off because they can't fill spots, and they are blaming LFR instead of looking back and realizing that if they aren't doing anything to earn the dedication and loyalty of their guild members those guild members are just gonna bail as soon as a better guild doing better on progression has a spot open. It is no longer about the the players, everyone is disposable for the sake of progression. I remember when MMORPGs were actually about the people playing them.
    What your missing is the fact that back then there were no real catch-up methods. Today we have LFR, a vendor with a full set of 522 gear that is equivalent to normal mode gear, and item upgrade. All of this can be obtained solely by the player. Guilds no longer have to go back to old content to gear someone, because it isn't the only way to get a new recruit gear. If a recruit can't be bothered to spend time gearing themselves, then I don't think they deserve a raid position. By the way, guilds used to absolutely hate going back to old content to gear people. A lot of the time those players would leave after being geared and jump to the next higher guild, and the revolving door of gearing new people would continue.

  15. #135
    Stood in the Fire Deffry's Avatar
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    I stopped to play after dinging 90 after MoP release. And I have started to play again last month and tbh. it was piece of cake to find a spot in semi-hardcore guild. I have been playing since vanilla with few breaks here and there. But when I posted my application with listing of my experience, most of guilds reaction was like "well, your gear sucks, your MoP experience sucks ... but player with such experience is good contribution to a raid team most of times" ... I could be just lucky, but my experience tells me, that there is quite a great demand for veterans nowadays.
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  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Day Dreamer View Post
    Because due to the Looking For Retards system, the number of raid guilds have gone down, way down, and these guilds that remain usually are fully staffed and don't really have room for more unless the applicant is sporting some great gear and experience.

    It's quite simple actually. One would have a lot more chances to get into a raid guild if there were 50 raid guilds on his server and faction, like before Cata, than if there were just 5.
    Then ask yourself why people would rather spend time in LFR with all its inherant problems where they have to potentially deal with afk asshats, pvp geared tank fail, healers in dps spec, hunters using misdirect to gank random players, pet owners using pets to pull hordes of adds to Maegera, random rage boots, ect Rather than be in a Raid Guild. You answer that question and you would realise that LFR isn't the problem.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    Why would anyone join a pug for it if they already completed Lei Shen anyway? Unless it's a HC pug.
    It proves the raid leader or the guy who looks for more people that the guy who wants to join has normal mode experience.
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  18. #138
    Guilds complain that they are falling apart, and this is the reason. No guilds are willing to "take a chance" anymore, which is sad. Back in Wrath I applied for a guild and got in on a TRIAL basis (the meaning of the word trial is lost these days), ended up being their best player and stuck with them despite being poached by better guilds.

    Hopefully Flex raiding won't go down the path of "LFM Siege Flex 550ilvl+" and instead will be people willing to take along those of us that are great, but simply have no way of proving it (without having to do logs).

    I feel ya OP, I don;t raid anymore out of choice but if I was to start up again I can totally see how hard it is.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Then ask yourself why people would rather spend time in LFR with all its inherant problems where they have to potentially deal with afk asshats, pvp geared tank fail, healers in dps spec, hunters using misdirect to gank random players, pet owners using pets to pull hordes of adds to Maegera, random rage boots, ect Rather than be in a Raid Guild. You answer that question and you would realise that LFR isn't the problem.
    I know the answer to that question: It's because a lot, if not most, people don't care about difficult content that requires more attention and effort for obviously better rewards. They are content with retard-proof mechanics that are doable in 30 minutes. This has little to do with "I work 3 jobs and 2 shifts" as there aren't that many people who genuinely don't have the time for it. This has everything to do people content with scraps.

    As I said before, pre-LFR these people who are content with scraps had to join real raiding guilds, there was no other way to get geared in pve, and their presence there benefited all, as people found raiding guilds much easier with such a large selection to choose from and there were always new guilds starting out and in need on people.

    Today you got a few raiding guilds on every server and they are likely full and don't need more players, and if they do need, they ask for a high ilevel. An average LFR hero doesn't stand a chance at getting in even if he wanted to and is forced to spam some more LFR instead.
    Last edited by Day Dreamer; 2013-06-29 at 03:20 PM.

  20. #140
    You should apply for a normal guild.
    I can easily understand why hardmode guilds are reluctant to accept a person who comes straight from LFR, unless said person has some kind of proof that he's a good player.

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