Thread: Dangers of F2P

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  1. #1

    Dangers of F2P

    I know many here are proponents of the F2P model. IMHO it's a model where it's very easy to fall to the Dark Side™ especially when competition is fierce and when one's livelihood depends on it.

    I have found a rather interesting article,

    http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Ramin...130626/194933/

    I was wonder just how many F2P games you guys have played that have used such "tricks" - looking at your favourite F2P games as objectively as possible.

  2. #2
    Please for future people coming to read this don't.

    That article can be said about any game F2P or not.

    Don't waste your time.

  3. #3
    Important thing to note: He's discussing mobile monetization, which is far different than how you see F2P MMO's monetized on the whole.

    I can't think of a single F2P MMO that I've played that uses tricks this overt (Neverwinter or SWTOR may be the closest, and neither is terrible).

    So please, remember, he's talking about mobile monetization schemes. Mobile is shit, the market is shit, the games are shit, and the monetization of the games is shit. It's not surprising and this has been the way that mobile/social games have been monetized since before the days of Zynga.

    Redit: That being said, the article is extremely interesting from a business perspective as it goes into some of the nitty gritty of how monetization models work and the thought that goes in behind them. However from a consumer PoV, and especially one of a gamer, I hate to see this shit. It's why I avoid the mobile game market like the plague for the most part. Own a few RPG's I purchased on sale but on the whole I've yet to see a single freemium mobile game that had more depth than was necessary to get you into the cash shop and give them money (i.e. they're all shit).
    Last edited by Edge-; 2013-06-29 at 05:39 AM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Please for future people coming to read this don't.

    That article can be said about any game F2P or not.

    Don't waste your time.
    Nope. Read more carefully. Your assertion makes zero sense. Non F2P games don't have to resort to such trickery as you have already paid in full when you buy the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    Important thing to note: He's discussing mobile monetization, which is far different than how you see F2P MMO's monetized on the whole.

    I can't think of a single F2P MMO that I've played that uses tricks this overt (Neverwinter or SWTOR may be the closest, and neither is terrible).

    So please, remember, he's talking about mobile monetization schemes. Mobile is shit, the market is shit, the games are shit, and the monetization of the games is shit. It's not surprising and this has been the way that mobile/social games have been monetized since before the days of Zynga.

    Redit: That being said, the article is extremely interesting from a business perspective as it goes into some of the nitty gritty of how monetization models work and the thought that goes in behind them. However from a consumer PoV, and especially one of a gamer, I hate to see this shit. It's why I avoid the mobile game market like the plague for the most part. Own a few RPG's I purchased on sale but on the whole I've yet to see a single freemium mobile game that had more depth than was necessary to get you into the cash shop and give them money (i.e. they're all shit).
    I read the whole thing. Nowhere did the author mention the word "mobile".

    These "tricks" can be used anywhere, in any kind of F2P game.

    Just a heads up and that you should examine all the F2P games you have played.
    Last edited by SodiumChloride; 2013-06-29 at 12:19 PM.

  5. #5
    Legendary! Anarch Son of Gods's Avatar
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    Yeah. Reminds me of when I played WoW and our entire guild had to buy tons of gold from chinese sites to remain competitive with the other world top 10 raiding scene, who all were buying gold for consumables, craftables etc too.
    ♦ "It is easy to take insolence from those who are below you." ♦

  6. #6
    That article was very vague and obscure. They failed to make convincing examples, and didn't even touch such subject as - f2p games only exist thanks to microtransactions and cash shops.

    I can make examples too, I won't name the games, though if you played many of them - you would know what I am speaking about.
    So Game A - subscription based game. Game B - f2p cash-shop based game.

    In Game A - each time you happen to die on some challenge, you have to grind various ingame resources, such as gold, various buffs, and so on. Preparation stage before doing challenges also includes completing daily objectives for a prolonged period of time. Rewards are purely RNG-based.

    Game B - same as Game A, but you can buy gold from "free-riders", buy buffs from cash-shop instead of farming them, and cut out on most of daily objectives grind. You can also buy things, which otherwise are hard to farm, which would allow you more chances within RNG-based system.

    It's simply entirely different approaches. If you think that f2p game "pushes" you to buy things from cash-shop, some p2p games push you into sacrificing time while doing tedious, and often - soulcrushing, ingame tasks without providing cash-shop alternative, meanwhile you pay subscription fees.

    Unless type A games will change their paradigm, they will become unsustainable in close future, because you can't have both - paying for game by money, and paying for game by investing lots of time doing uninteresting activities. F2p gives the facts straight: pay if you want such-and-such thing. P2p plays it other way around: pay, but we will make sure you will have to pay us next month, and month after that, so we will try to extend your game experience by all artificial means possible, however unappealing those would be.

  7. #7
    This is the reefer madness of f2p articles.
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  8. #8
    Nope. Read more carefully. Your assertion makes zero sense. Non F2P games don't have to resort to such trickery as you have already paid in full when you buy the game.
    Rofl that is so biased I don't even know what to say.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    Yeah. Reminds me of when I played WoW and our entire guild had to buy tons of gold from chinese sites to remain competitive with the other world top 10 raiding scene, who all were buying gold for consumables, craftables etc too.
    Good thing Blizzard nerf that hard in Wrath heh.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-29 at 02:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Rofl that is so biased I don't even know what to say.
    Of course it's "biased", it is an article talking about the worst of F2P. Unfortunately, the tactics it highlights are widely used.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-29 at 02:14 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    That article was very vague and obscure. They failed to make convincing examples, and didn't even touch such subject as - f2p games only exist thanks to microtransactions and cash shops.

    I can make examples too, I won't name the games, though if you played many of them - you would know what I am speaking about.
    So Game A - subscription based game. Game B - f2p cash-shop based game.

    In Game A - each time you happen to die on some challenge, you have to grind various ingame resources, such as gold, various buffs, and so on. Preparation stage before doing challenges also includes completing daily objectives for a prolonged period of time. Rewards are purely RNG-based.

    Game B - same as Game A, but you can buy gold from "free-riders", buy buffs from cash-shop instead of farming them, and cut out on most of daily objectives grind. You can also buy things, which otherwise are hard to farm, which would allow you more chances within RNG-based system.

    It's simply entirely different approaches. If you think that f2p game "pushes" you to buy things from cash-shop, some p2p games push you into sacrificing time while doing tedious, and often - soulcrushing, ingame tasks without providing cash-shop alternative, meanwhile you pay subscription fees.

    Unless type A games will change their paradigm, they will become unsustainable in close future, because you can't have both - paying for game by money, and paying for game by investing lots of time doing uninteresting activities. F2p gives the facts straight: pay if you want such-and-such thing. P2p plays it other way around: pay, but we will make sure you will have to pay us next month, and month after that, so we will try to extend your game experience by all artificial means possible, however unappealing those would be.
    Games like WoW have pretty much eliminate the prep grind and it's industry peers have followed suit.

    The article is just highlighting all the dirty tricks a great many F2P games utilized to blindside you into spending cash.
    Last edited by SodiumChloride; 2013-06-29 at 02:18 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    The article is just highlighting all the dirty tricks a great many F2P games utilized to blindside you into spending cash.
    Usually, when someone asks for my credit card information, I take a second to think about my purchase. I don't see how anyone can be "blindsided" when there's 5 pages of info you have to fill out to buy in game currency.
    I get that people don't like spending their money poorly, but if you take time to research your purchase, that wouldn't happen to you as much. You are still making a choice when you spend money in a F2P game. You have to be responsible for your own actions.
    People need to stop blaming other people for their own mistakes. It's like trying to sue McDonalds for 'making you fat'. Put down the fork.
    The other complaint is that cash shops are 'too confusing'. If you can't figure it out, then you should stop trying to use it. Switch games even. The cash shops are designed to be as simple as possible so they can get 8 year olds to purchase league of legends skins.

    Tldr: If you can't handle having a credit card, don't get one.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Bardarian View Post
    Usually, when someone asks for my credit card information, I take a second to think about my purchase. I don't see how anyone can be "blindsided" when there's 5 pages of info you have to fill out to buy in game currency.
    I get that people don't like spending their money poorly, but if you take time to research your purchase, that wouldn't happen to you as much. You are still making a choice when you spend money in a F2P game. You have to be responsible for your own actions.
    People need to stop blaming other people for their own mistakes. It's like trying to sue McDonalds for 'making you fat'. Put down the fork.
    The other complaint is that cash shops are 'too confusing'. If you can't figure it out, then you should stop trying to use it. Switch games even. The cash shops are designed to be as simple as possible so they can get 8 year olds to purchase league of legends skins.

    Tldr: If you can't handle having a credit card, don't get one.
    /shrug

    There is a reason almost every F2P game uses virtual currency, even MS uses MS points on Xbox Live, it's because it works. There is no other reason for the administrative hassle of setting up a virtual currency system. Apple doesn't use Apple points for their App Store.

  12. #12
    The problem here is that the F2P model is not what a lot of people describe it as.
    The real definition should be all the content available, with only convenience/cosmetic - non-game breaking or content denying stuff being paid for.
    Anything else should really have a different description, but would not attract the customers if they were more accurate to begin with.
    Skins, faster unlocks, etc I see as fine as long as those available just in-game are not inferior in power and not made to be simply unrealistic without real money.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2013-06-29 at 03:34 PM.

  13. #13
    I am Murloc! Descense's Avatar
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    Powercreaping is realy a problem with free to play games.

    You buy something..it gets nerfed in next patch and they offer you another op thing for real money.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    Important thing to note: He's discussing mobile monetization, which is far different than how you see F2P MMO's monetized on the whole.
    Its not just "mobile" monetization, its "casual game" monetization. I've seen these tactics used in browser based Flash games for PCs. The article discusses Zynga, which is a predominantly 'non-mobile' game company since they develop a lot of games for Facebook.

    "The Dangers of Casual F2P Games" would be a more accurate title for this thread.
    Last edited by yurano; 2013-06-29 at 03:49 PM.

  15. #15
    Of course it's "biased", it is an article talking about the worst of F2P. Unfortunately, the tactics it highlights are widely used.
    And like I said before these "tactics" are not just used in F2P models it counts for B2P and P2P. Which is why I said it was biased. Try not to dismiss things before thinking.

  16. #16
    Warchief barackopala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Descense View Post
    Powercreaping is realy a problem with free to play games.

    You buy something..it gets nerfed in next patch and they offer you another op thing for real money.
    Haven't really seen that tbh <-<...
    Hasn't happened on Eden eternal
    Hasn't happened on LoL (definately hasn't, Aatrox, the last champion was regarded as OP when he's a really meh champ by profesional standards <most diamond players will tell you that with good reasons>)
    Hasn't happened on rift
    Hasn't happened on gw2 (you could discuss about it not being F2P)
    Hasn't happened on neverwinter.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    I read the whole thing. Nowhere did the author mention the word "mobile".

    These "tricks" can be used anywhere, in any kind of F2P game.

    Just a heads up and that you should examine all the F2P games you have played.
    Look up the company he is part of. Look up the game he is discussing (the one making $2.5 million a day). Look up the strategies he's discussing. The company is a mobile company. The game is a mobile game. The strategies he uses are commonplace in mobile games.

    None of this directly relates to any major Western MMO's, as none of these tactics are directly employed. They use less shady versions of these tactics in some instances, however do not do such overt cash grabs. These tricks can be used that directly in MMO's, however they won't be. P2W is perfectly acceptable in the mobile space, just look at the top grossing games on Android or iOS and you'll see the ones that aren't gambling games (which surprisingly aren't always at the top) all have significant P2W elements in them. P2W is not acceptable in MMO's in the West, as many developers have discussed and as we can see by the lack of exclusive power sold in the cash shops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardarian View Post
    This is the reefer madness of f2p articles.
    Eh, not really. It's a 100% legit article. Just about F2P mobile monetization. It doesn't extend to the monetization of MMO's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Descense View Post
    Powercreaping is realy a problem with free to play games.

    You buy something..it gets nerfed in next patch and they offer you another op thing for real money.
    Out of curiosity, which F2P games have had this issue? I can't think of a single one off the top of my head, so I'm curious as to which you experienced this in.

  18. #18
    Never liked F2P games... Most of them are "free to try" before burying you in grind and time sinks with in app purchases that so wonderfully allow you to skip said grind.

    I'd rather play a game from a developer who wanted to make a fun game, not one who's trying and squeeze every dollar out of it's consumer.
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  19. #19
    Warchief barackopala's Avatar
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    rift didn't bury me into grind and most games haven't done it, i don't know which f2p games people are getting... on the other side of the fence are MOBILE F2P, and that is another specie.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Please for future people coming to read this don't.

    That article can be said about any game F2P or not.

    Don't waste your time.
    Yeah, don't spend 5 minutes to read something and form your own opinion. Just trust mine.
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