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  1. #1

    Blood DK doing heroic progression, wants to up his dps.

    Hello, internet. I'm currently progressing through H 10 TOT (guilds currently 10/13, they didn't bring me in for H DURUMU. I'm 9/13 though). Anyway my dps is getting blown out of the water by our prot pally, and I'd like to change that. Thing is, I suck when it comes to changing just enough tank stats to dps stats without making me squishy, so I need your help! Any advice/suggestions/tips would be greatly appreciated.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...%C3%B4s/simple

    (P.S. I have a couple of trinkets for dps that I can use: Gaze of the Twins (LFR), Lei Shen's Final Orders, Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun, and Darkmist Vortex. I wish I could get horridon's trinket, but even if it did drop our ret pally really needs it for obvious reasons.)

    Thanks Again!

    -Active Mitigation Hipster
    Kosmos

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by eronen View Post
    Hello, internet. I'm currently progressing through H 10 TOT (guilds currently 10/13, they didn't bring me in for H DURUMU. I'm 9/13 though). Anyway my dps is getting blown out of the water by our prot pally, and I'd like to change that. Thing is, I suck when it comes to changing just enough tank stats to dps stats without making me squishy, so I need your help! Any advice/suggestions/tips would be greatly appreciated.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...%C3%B4s/simple

    (P.S. I have a couple of trinkets for dps that I can use: Gaze of the Twins (LFR), Lei Shen's Final Orders, Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun, and Darkmist Vortex. I wish I could get horridon's trinket, but even if it did drop our ret pally really needs it for obvious reasons.)

    Thanks Again!

    -Active Mitigation Hipster
    Kosmos
    Change your gear setup, instead of focussing on mastery, aim for haste. Change your tank cloak to the dps one, it's far better (dodge/parry are wasted stats really) same with your gear which has dodge/parry, try to get haste/mastery dps pieces (horridon leggings as example)

    This will significantly improve your dps without too much loss of surviveability (haste is great as a defensive stat too, more haste=more deathstrikes/minute)

    You are overcapped on hit and expertise. While expertise overcap isn't that bad, haste is still better dps gain, and overcap on hit is just a waste of stat points.

    Get rid of the tier items you're using. No need to get the 4 set, you're better off using the 2 best itemized tier items (head and shoulders) and getting offset gear in the other slots. Preferably haste/mastery items. All the other tier items are terribly itemized, especially your gloves and chest. Dodge/Parry is about the same value as spirit for us (overstatement ofcourse but you get the idea)

    Change your weapon rune to fallen crusader. Even if you don't want to get rid of your defensive runeforge, swordshattering>gargoyle. But imo FC is a nobrainer, its quite a big dps increase.

    Change your metagem to the dps meta. The only fight I would consider running the tank meta on, is horridon, and I tank that (on 25HM!) with the dps meta just fine. The DPS meta is doing ~10% of my damage, it scales incredibly well with vengeance. Dangerous attacks are timed big hits (snapping bite, talon rake etc etc) and the odds of having your tank meta up exactly when you need it for those attacks is non-existant anyways.

    Your trinkets are fine, actually. Don't be afraid to upgrade your 489 trinket, it's still really good, and as you said, your paladin would get the spark before you (and rightfully so) so just stick with these trinkets that you have atm, and when you do get spark eventually you can always swap it out.

    I personally raid 25HM - and even I run some haste nowadays, I got less mastery then you have (even reforged some away/changed some gems around for hybrid sta/mastery) and I'm still fine for all the harder hitting heroics. You've gone really overboard on defensive stats. Your mastery is abit overkill and that dodge and parry you run with.. well that's a potentional 5k haste right there!

    edit: you can take this a step further, and get the *dps* tier instead. Just reforge out of the crit, and leave the haste/mastery - both the 2 and the 4 set are really good dps increases, and the loss of defensive stats is not that bad. You might actually gain on mastery/haste and just lose out on dodge/parry!
    Last edited by falagar112; 2013-06-29 at 07:25 PM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by falagar112 View Post
    Change your gear setup, instead of focussing on mastery, aim for haste. Change your tank cloak to the dps one, it's far better (dodge/parry are wasted stats really) same with your gear which has dodge/parry, try to get haste/mastery dps pieces (horridon leggings as example)

    This will significantly improve your dps without too much loss of surviveability (haste is great as a defensive stat too, more haste=more deathstrikes/minute)

    You are overcapped on hit and expertise. While expertise overcap isn't that bad, haste is still better dps gain, and overcap on hit is just a waste of stat points.

    Get rid of the tier items you're using. No need to get the 4 set, you're better off using the 2 best itemized tier items (head and shoulders) and getting offset gear in the other slots. Preferably haste/mastery items. All the other tier items are terribly itemized, especially your gloves and chest. Dodge/Parry is about the same value as spirit for us (overstatement ofcourse but you get the idea)

    Change your weapon rune to fallen crusader. Even if you don't want to get rid of your defensive runeforge, swordshattering>gargoyle. But imo FC is a nobrainer, its quite a big dps increase.

    Change your metagem to the dps meta. The only fight I would consider running the tank meta on, is horridon, and I tank that (on 25HM!) with the dps meta just fine. The DPS meta is doing ~10% of my damage, it scales incredibly well with vengeance. Dangerous attacks are timed big hits (snapping bite, talon rake etc etc) and the odds of having your tank meta up exactly when you need it for those attacks is non-existant anyways.

    Your trinkets are fine, actually. Don't be afraid to upgrade your 489 trinket, it's still really good, and as you said, your paladin would get the spark before you (and rightfully so) so just stick with these trinkets that you have atm, and when you do get spark eventually you can always swap it out.

    I personally raid 25HM - and even I run some haste nowadays, I got less mastery then you have (even reforged some away/changed some gems around for hybrid sta/mastery) and I'm still fine for all the harder hitting heroics. You've gone really overboard on defensive stats. Your mastery is abit overkill and that dodge and parry you run with.. well that's a potentional 5k haste right there!

    edit: you can take this a step further, and get the *dps* tier instead. Just reforge out of the crit, and leave the haste/mastery - both the 2 and the 4 set are really good dps increases, and the loss of defensive stats is not that bad. You might actually gain on mastery/haste and just lose out on dodge/parry!
    Thank you for the response, I appreciate it.

    Currently I use reforge lite, and with all the extra hit and expertise on my gear set as it is, I guess I'm naturally above 7.5 respectively even with reforging out of it. I understand your point with the dps meta gem, however due to next patch's legendary cloaks, I'm going to keep it because a secondary purgatory sounds important. Thanks for the idea of putting on dps tier, I was completely unaware on how pointless dodge/parry is. This was my first time posting on mmochampion after years of just looking around. I hope to talk to you and people like you again in the future. Thanks again!
    Sincerely,
    Kosmos, the hottest new thing in Belgium

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by eronen View Post
    Thank you for the response, I appreciate it.

    Currently I use reforge lite, and with all the extra hit and expertise on my gear set as it is, I guess I'm naturally above 7.5 respectively even with reforging out of it. I understand your point with the dps meta gem, however due to next patch's legendary cloaks, I'm going to keep it because a secondary purgatory sounds important. Thanks for the idea of putting on dps tier, I was completely unaware on how pointless dodge/parry is. This was my first time posting on mmochampion after years of just looking around. I hope to talk to you and people like you again in the future. Thanks again!
    Sincerely,
    Kosmos, the hottest new thing in Belgium
    happy to be of help!

    tank meta and tank cloak proc are totally unrelated. You can run the dps meta *and* the tank proc on cloak along eachother just fine!

    atm its not confirmed if you "need" the actual tank cloak to get the tank proc - depends if they go the enchant way - alike the extra socket on weapon, or not. Have to wait and see

    But yeah, tank cloak proc is really awesome, definatly get that. Tank metagem however is pretty crappy compared to the dps one!

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer turskanaattori's Avatar
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    Not much to add. Start switching your mastery gems into haste, and try to get hold of Spark of Zandalar and Fabled Feather of Ji-kun and get the DPS meta.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by turskanaattori View Post
    Not much to add. Start switching your mastery gems into haste, and try to get hold of Spark of Zandalar and Fabled Feather of Ji-kun and get the DPS meta.
    /Facepalm


    please dont replace mastery to haste... we are not prot paladins

    Thats the prio: Mastery > Melee Hit (7.5%) = Expertise (7.5%) > Haste( If Parry+Dodge+Miss = 35%) > Parry = Dodge

    Full Bis you will get stats like this: s10.postimg.org/4lj08e7jd/Bloody_stats(.)jpg
    Last edited by Bloody90; 2013-06-30 at 08:26 AM.

  7. #7
    I am about the same gear level as you, also running with a prot Pally. Recently I have been reforging more towards haste, while keeping gems as mastery or mastery/stam. Obviously while keeping the hit and exp at about 7.5%.

    This is keeping my mastery at about 200% while my haste rises whenever I get some new gear. I feel like the 200% mastery is a nice spot for it to be while we keep progressing on heroics and I don't find myself in too many sticky situations.

    I know however that at the moment there is no way I can pull as much dps as our Pally so for our progression fights I let him tank the bosses for longer than I do as I know this will get them down faster. However on some farm fights we will switch it up so I can have a go at getting some good numbers in...

    If there are spots that you really want to go for good numbers you can even go for a haste/crit priority... Your healers will need to be on the ball but I think this is the best way to get the most dps out of a DK at the moment.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by marcojoao View Post
    Thats the prio: Mastery > Melee Hit (7.5%) = Expertise (7.5%) > Haste( If Parry+Dodge+Miss = 35%) > Parry = Dodge
    Dodge and parry is a waste... I would completely avoid it if possible, not go for a magic number like 35% avoidance.

    As for your other stuff: at this point in the tier, tank survivability is really overinflated. If you can swap out mastery for haste without being a burden on your healer, do it. Don't be a slave to certain stat priorities, without taking into account your personal situation.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Dodge and parry is a waste... I would completely avoid it if possible, not go for a magic number like 35% avoidance.
    LOOL ok its your opinion. In my opinion is bad idea ignore one of your base stats just because it dont scale very well, haste is good if you has a decent to get 15% unbuffed (25% Haste in raid) to get a decent Scent of Blood extra stracks. But ok dk blood has manys ways to play. NEVER remove mastery, hit or exp to gain some haste..try to balance your stats
    Last edited by Bloody90; 2013-06-30 at 09:55 AM.

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcojoao View Post
    LOOL ok its your opinion. In my opinion is bad idea ignore one of your base stats just because it dont scale very well, haste is good if you has a decent to get 15% unbuffed (25% Haste in raid) to get a decent Scent of Blood extra stracks. But ok dk blood has manys ways to play. NEVER remove mastery, hit or exp to gain some haste..try to balance your stats
    Your opinion is your own. Stop trying to backseat game.

    I have no idea where you pull this 35% number, I have my gear reforged Hit 7.5 > Haste(6.2k) > Mastery(13.1k) and I am at 23.66% Parry + 8.14% Dodge + 3% Miss = 34.8%. That is 4791 Dodge/Parry rating together, which is as low as I can get it at the moment. Keep in mind that these numbers lack 5% Str buff from Kings and Strength flask which I use.

    10m progress:
    Mastery > Hit 7.5 > Haste > Exp 7.5
    10m farm/dps:
    Hit 7.5 > Haste > Mastery

    25m:
    Mastery > Hit 7.5 > Dodge/Parry > Exp 7.5, +Stamina trinket advised for a few fights

  11. #11
    The OP asked for ways to up his dps and moving to haste over mastery is the best way to do that. It's pretty silly to be in this thread parroting Icy Veins' priority list and telling him to stack mastery. How exactly does that help his dps?

    Basically, do what other people have said but keep an eye on your survivability, converting to haste will rob you of those massive blood shields so I would advise talking to your healers and trying to find a middle ground. Personally I run (unbuffed) around 185% mastery and 15% haste most fights but I'm working on Lei Shen at the moment so for him I move a bit more towards haste since his melee damage is not very much and blood dks are very good at killing the ball lightning adds.

    If your guild 10/13, you will be on Animus next and that's a fight where I would advise a heavy haste build. Depending on your tactic, you will likely be taking 3 golems at the start (so pop all cds to survive) then spending your time running around with a massive golem before settling in to dps the boss. There's very little melee damage after the first 10-15 seconds so just see how much haste you can get and really push the damage.
    EX - 14/14 HC - Ravencrest EU
    www.ex-gaming.org

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Your opinion is your own. Stop trying to backseat game.

    I have no idea where you pull this 35% number, I have my gear reforged Hit 7.5 > Haste(6.2k) > Mastery(13.1k) and I am at 23.66% Parry + 8.14% Dodge + 3% Miss = 34.8%. That is 4791 Dodge/Parry rating together, which is as low as I can get it at the moment. Keep in mind that these numbers lack 5% Str buff from Kings and Strength flask which I use.

    10m progress:
    Mastery > Hit 7.5 > Haste > Exp 7.5
    10m farm/dps:
    Hit 7.5 > Haste > Mastery

    25m:
    Mastery > Hit 7.5 > Dodge/Parry > Exp 7.5, +Stamina trinket advised for a few fights
    Im not here to backseat the game lol calm down.. I pulled that 35% because is a fine stat for avoid, ppl yelling here "Dodge and parry is a waste" im just say dont ignore your base stat!! now balance your stats acording to your raid progress, actuality I has 552 Ilvl, 900+ HP(buffed), 253% Mastery(unbuffed) 17% Haste(unbuffed), 34,6 Total avoid Hit exp cap. And im quite good for 25H farming 13/13 the other reason because you dont want to ignore your avoid is because in next tier you will have the biggest problem of dk blood. heal reduction debuff and armor reduction debuffs.

    And again stop bitch your are wrong blabla, im just said dont ignore your base stat, NEVER replace mastery to haste unless you do 10M normals lol, believe we are not Prot Palas xD

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by marcojoao View Post
    Im not here to backseat the game lol calm down.. I pulled that 35% because is a fine stat for avoid, ppl yelling here "Dodge and parry is a waste" im just say dont ignore your base stat!! now balance your stats acording to your raid progress, actuality I has 552 Ilvl, 900+ HP(buffed), 253% Mastery(unbuffed) 17% Haste(unbuffed), 34,6 Total avoid Hit exp cap. And im quite good for 25H farming 13/13 the other reason because you dont want to ignore your avoid is because in next tier you will have the biggest problem of dk blood. heal reduction debuff and armor reduction debuffs.

    And again stop bitch your are wrong blabla, im just said dont ignore your base stat, NEVER replace mastery to haste unless you do 10M normals lol, believe we are not Prot Palas xD
    If you really are 13/13 then you got carried, clearly you don't really understand the class mechanics. Also what is this bullshit about "next tier" surely you would just go back to mastery at the start of the tier then move back to haste as your gear improves. Seems like commons sense to me, it's not like these changes aren't completely reversible on a fight by fight basis.
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  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcojoao View Post
    Im not here to backseat the game lol calm down.. I pulled that 35% because is a fine stat for avoid, ppl yelling here "Dodge and parry is a waste" im just say dont ignore your base stat!! now balance your stats acording to your raid progress, actuality I has 552 Ilvl, 900+ HP(buffed), 253% Mastery(unbuffed) 17% Haste(unbuffed), 34,6 Total avoid Hit exp cap. And im quite good for 25H farming 13/13 the other reason because you dont want to ignore your avoid is because in next tier you will have the biggest problem of dk blood. heal reduction debuff and armor reduction debuffs.

    And again stop bitch your are wrong blabla, im just said dont ignore your base stat, NEVER replace mastery to haste unless you do 10M normals lol, believe we are not Prot Palas xD
    You do realize we've had reforging for now almost 2 expansions? And we even have mounts with Reforge vendor!

    Holy shit! 1 click and you have Mastery or Haste build! For top guild progression, the tanks change reforging/gemming mid-boss progression to see how they affect your performance.

    It's common sense if 1 fight has VERY heavy tank damage(Horridon Heroic) that you go with max. survivability or a fight that has no tank damage at all(Ultraxion Heroic), you adjust reforging accordingly.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by marcojoao View Post
    Im not here to backseat the game lol calm down.. I pulled that 35% because is a fine stat for avoid, ppl yelling here "Dodge and parry is a waste" im just say dont ignore your base stat!! now balance your stats acording to your raid progress, actuality I has 552 Ilvl, 900+ HP(buffed), 253% Mastery(unbuffed) 17% Haste(unbuffed), 34,6 Total avoid Hit exp cap. And im quite good for 25H farming 13/13 the other reason because you dont want to ignore your avoid is because in next tier you will have the biggest problem of dk blood. heal reduction debuff and armor reduction debuffs.

    And again stop bitch your are wrong blabla, im just said dont ignore your base stat, NEVER replace mastery to haste unless you do 10M normals lol, believe we are not Prot Palas xD
    stop trolling

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by CptAwesome View Post
    If you really are 13/13 then you got carried, clearly you don't really understand the class mechanics. Also what is this bullshit about "next tier" surely you would just go back to mastery at the start of the tier then move back to haste as your gear improves. Seems like commons sense to me, it's not like these changes aren't completely reversible on a fight by fight basis.
    "surely you would just go back to mastery at the start of the tier then move back to haste as your gear improves. Seems like commons sense to me" vs healing reduction and armor reduction OMG that will definitely work !!! haha I think you dont need to say more about "class mechanics" xD ok calmdown mr.Pro play the way you like more, you just one dude that ignore the others opinions and think you are always right. ok goahead.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by marcojoao View Post
    heal reduction debuff and armor reduction debuffs.
    Healing reduction is no more effective on blood DKs than other tanks. Blood Shield is completely independent of healing taken modifiers of any kind, including, but not limited to, vampiric blood, and healing debuffs you get from bosses.

    If you are a 13/13H raider as you say, surely you should have known this.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Healing reduction is no more effective on blood DKs than other tanks. Blood Shield is completely independent of healing taken modifiers of any kind, including, but not limited to, vampiric blood, and healing debuffs you get from bosses.

    If you are a 13/13H raider as you say, surely you should have known this.
    its obvius you dont understed what i mean to say with that answer, I wont lose more time talking about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goil View Post
    I am about the same gear level as you, also running with a prot Pally. Recently I have been reforging more towards haste, while keeping gems as mastery or mastery/stam. Obviously while keeping the hit and exp at about 7.5%.

    This is keeping my mastery at about 200% while my haste rises whenever I get some new gear. I feel like the 200% mastery is a nice spot for it to be while we keep progressing on heroics and I don't find myself in too many sticky situations.

    I know however that at the moment there is no way I can pull as much dps as our Pally so for our progression fights I let him tank the bosses for longer than I do as I know this will get them down faster. However on some farm fights we will switch it up so I can have a go at getting some good numbers in...

    If there are spots that you really want to go for good numbers you can even go for a haste/crit priority... Your healers will need to be on the ball but I think this is the best way to get the most dps out of a DK at the moment.
    Strongly agree 200% mastery I believe is a nice start to introduce haste in the way do not lose mastery in 25HC with my stats i actually take less dmg them almost all raid and do a quite good dmg
    Last edited by Bloody90; 2013-06-30 at 02:15 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by marcojoao View Post
    Strongly agree 200% mastery I believe is a nice start to introduce haste in the way do not lose mastery in 25HC with my stats i actually take less dmg them almost all raid and do a quite good dmg
    You probably didn't realize the OP was asking about 10H advice.... so keep your 25H nonsense to yourself-
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    You probably didn't realize the OP was asking about 10H advice.... so keep your 25H nonsense to yourself-
    ^^ 2nd this

    To the OP I find Feather from ji-kun to be very strong, and have personally found 9-10k haste to be a good "sweet spot" for blood tanking. After that I go crit or mastery depending on the fight. Some other things to consider : 1. getting the strength dps 600 ilvl cloak as it has really good stats, 2: get rid of the DRW glyph and make sure you're always apply diseases when DRW is up, 3: pick up a few dps enchants ie. haste to gloves, str to bracers, crit to cloak are some good ones in which you dont "lose" alot, 4: Def go fallen crusader....no brainer there.

    Hope this helps

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