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  1. #1
    Brewmaster Thalian's Avatar
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    Should Nelson Mandela be considered a hero or a war criminal in history books?

    I was studying up on Nelson Mandela recently to come across some information that would imply that he was responsible for the killing of hundreds of innocent civilians during the apartheid.

    Wikipedia quotes:
    "Umkhonto we Sizwe (abbreviated as MK, translated as "Spear of the Nation") was the armed wing of the African National Congress (ANC), co-founded by Nelson Mandela, which fought against the South African government. MK launched its first guerrilla attacks against government installations on 16 December 1961. It was subsequently classified as a terrorist organization by the South African government and the United States, and banned."

    "Landmark events in MK's military activity inside South Africa consisted of actions designed to intimidate the ruling power. In 1983, the Church Street bomb was detonated in Pretoria near the SA Air Force Headquarters, resulting in 19 civilian fatalities and 217 persons injured. During the next 10 years, a series of bombings occurred in South Africa, conducted mainly by the military wing of the African National Congress.

    In the Amanzimtoti bomb on the Natal South Coast in 1985, five civilians were killed and 40 were injured when MK cadre Andrew Sibusiso Zondo detonated an explosive in a rubbish bin at a shopping centre killing five people, including three children, shortly before Christmas. In a submission to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC), the ANC stated that Zondo acted on orders after a recent SADF raid in Lesotho.

    A bomb was detonated in a bar on the Durban beach-front in 1986, killing three civilians and injuring 69. Robert McBride received the death penalty for this bombing which became known as the "Magoo's Bar bombing". Although the subsequent Truth and Reconciliation Committee called the bombing a "gross violation of human rights", McBride received amnesty and became a senior police officer.

    In 1987, an explosion outside a Johannesburg court killed three people and injured 10; a court in Newcastle had been attacked in a similar way the previous year, injuring 24. In 1987, a bomb exploded at a military command centre in Johannesburg, killing one person and injuring 68 personnel.

    The bombing campaign continued with attacks on a series of soft targets, including a bank in Roodepoort in 1988, in which four civilians were killed and 18 injured. Also in 1988, in a bomb detonation outside a magistrate's court killed three. At the Ellis Park rugby stadium in Johannesburg, a car bomb, killed two and injured 37 civilians. A multitude of bombs in "Wimpy Bar" fast food outlets and supermarkets occurred during the late 1980s, killing and wounding many people. Wimpy were specifically targeted because of their perceived rigid enforcements of many Apartheid-era laws, including excluding people of colour from their restaurants. Several other bombings occurred, with smaller numbers of casualties."

    "Inspired by Fidel Castro's 26th of July Movement in the Cuban Revolution, in 1961 Mandela co-founded Umkhonto we Sizwe ("Spear of the Nation", abbreviated MK) with Sisulu and the communist Joe Slovo. Becoming chairman of the militant group, he gained ideas from illegal literature on guerilla warfare by Mao and Che Guevara. Officially separate from the ANC, in later years MK became the group's armed wing. Most early MK members were white communists; after hiding in communist Wolfie Kodesh's flat in Berea, Mandela moved to the communist-owned Liliesleaf Farm in Rivonia, there joined by Raymond Mhlaba, Slovo and Bernstein, who put together the MK constitution. Operating through a cell structure, the MK agreed to acts of sabotage to exert maximum pressure on the government with minimum casualties, bombing military installations, power plants, telephone lines and transport links at night, when civilians were not present. Mandela noted that should these tactics fail, MK would resort to "guerilla warfare and terrorism." Soon after ANC leader Luthuli was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, the MK publicly announced its existence with 57 bombings on Dingane's Day (16 December) 1961, followed by further attacks on New Year's Eve."









    What is your personal opinion on Nelson Mandela? Are the crimes of the government an excuse to kill innocent civilians, including unarmed men, women and children?

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans Suffer the Consequences's Avatar
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    There is no difference between heroes and villains except for who writes about them in history books.
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    Standing up to an enemy she can't possibly defeat is more bad ass than Thrall using his magic penny to turn Deathwing into glitter.

  3. #3
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    Why must a person be one or the other? Why must history remember them in only one way? Remember them for everything they were, and let people make up their own minds.
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  4. #4
    The Unstoppable Force RICH816's Avatar
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    I don't see how anyone that lead a terrorist group should deserve a Nobel peace prize, that prize has become a joke lately anyway.

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer DEATHETERNAL's Avatar
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    If what you post is true (I never read up on him enough to know), then he supports terrorism and should be remembered as such.
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  6. #6
    Brewmaster Thalian's Avatar
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    I just got banned Yahoo Answers for asking the same question!!!

  7. #7
    Pandaren Monk Ealyssa's Avatar
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    lol wut ?

    If Nelson Mandela had said "let's kill all the white" their would have been a MASSIVE genocide in the country. And that's pretty much why even the white in south africa praised him : He save the life of millions people. He is obvisouly a hero.

  8. #8
    Epic! Iceleaf's Avatar
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    World is not black and white. Road to good things is not clean or filled with roses.
    Good deeds need to be sometimes dark. Wars are not clean. Wars are not always honorable. There are prisoners, torture, inhumane conditions.

    There are no "heroes" and "villains" in real world where bad guys kill and heroes save and are batmans who dont kill anyone. Those are comics only.

    Take him how you want, but the whole its either "hero or criminal" shouldnt be the point
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by SourceOfInfection View Post
    There is no difference between heroes and villains except for who writes about them in history books.
    "History is written by the victors" Sir Winston Chrurchill.
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  10. #10
    The Unstoppable Force RICH816's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    lol wut ?

    If Nelson Mandela had said "let's kill all the white" their would have been a MASSIVE genocide in the country. And that's pretty much why even the white in south africa praised him : He save the life of millions people. He is obvisouly a hero.
    As opposed to just stealing farms and forcing out whites?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_farm_attacks

  11. #11
    everyone remembers Lincoln as a hero but everyone forgets that he ordered the union army to kill civilians in the southern states.

  12. #12
    One mans Freedom Fighter is another mans terrorist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mooneye View Post
    Woman rapes a guy, gives birth to child and has custody of the child.
    I don't see why you should take the child from the woman unless she abuses it.

  13. #13
    Brewmaster Thalian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    lol wut ?

    If Nelson Mandela had said "let's kill all the white" their would have been a MASSIVE genocide in the country. And that's pretty much why even the white in south africa praised him : He save the life of millions people. He is obvisouly a hero.
    He didn't say "Let's kill all whites", but he did call for the bombings of innocents.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by mizeri View Post
    everyone remembers Lincoln as a hero but everyone forgets that he ordered the union army to kill civilians in the southern states.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tecumseh_Sherman

    The badass who invented scorched earth total war offensive tactics. In the south they hate his guts.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence

    Isrealis wrote the textbook for Palestine terrorism.

    It's hard to ignore the similarity between Apartheid and the treatment of Palestinians by the Israelis.

    !!!I'm not arguing that Israel is not justified in it's actions, or that the Palestinians aren't justified in theirs!!!

    Simply just from an outside observers perspective. If one drops political activism, the lines between Police Action/Apartheid, Freedom Fighter/Terrorist become blurry. In historical context the perspective might even change.

    Now when it comes to Mandela. He wasn't perfect, but from a historical perspective, Aparatheid was worse and South Africa could have gone down the same route as Rhodesia/Zimbabwe. So let's leave it at a Hero.
    Last edited by Mihalik; 2013-06-29 at 06:27 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooneye View Post
    Sexual assault is not always rape.
    *slowclap*
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooneye View Post
    Woman rapes a guy, gives birth to child and has custody of the child.
    I don't see why you should take the child from the woman unless she abuses it.

  15. #15
    Stood in the Fire Deffry's Avatar
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    I just do not get why there is so many controversial Nobel prize recipients, but the true "gem of humanity", sir Nicholas Winton hasn't got it. ...
    Last edited by Deffry; 2013-06-29 at 06:21 PM.
    "Ubi sementem feceris, ita mettes."

  16. #16
    The Unstoppable Force RICH816's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tecumseh_Sherman

    The badass who invented scorched earth total war offensive tactics. In the south they hate his guts.
    He did not invent it at all, it was being used well before Roman times.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    lol wut ?

    If Nelson Mandela had said "let's kill all the white" their would have been a MASSIVE genocide in the country. And that's pretty much why even the white in south africa praised him : He save the life of millions people. He is obvisouly a hero.
    "lol wut"
    You're saying because he didn't outright commit genocide he's a hero? What a strange world you live in >.>

    The man was a terrorist and a war criminal, and the praise he has received is not only undeserved, but reflects some serious flaws in those awarding it.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH8472 View Post
    As opposed to just stealing farms and forcing out whites?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_farm_attacks
    That link is relevant to this discussion how?

  19. #19
    He was the Leader of a Terrorist organisation and didnt say well stop this shit while beeing imprisoned. I can of course understand the situation they were in and that somebody had to do something about it. But the cause justifies the means is the shittiest excuse since the invention of whitewashing ever.

    It might be fine to attack the officials or the State but not some normal innocent folks and children.

  20. #20
    The Unstoppable Force RICH816's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekosom View Post
    That link is relevant to this discussion how?
    Why do you not read what I replied to? The whites in South Africa do not praise him at all, some downright hate him.

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