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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    2H weapons are 3.6 speed, 1H weapons are 2.6 speed - that's almost 40% more for the 2H which would be significant on a proc that does a weapon hit every .5 seconds.
    I mean the only ones who are really affected by this are prot pallies/warriors, because everyone else is either 2H or DW.
    PPM

    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    Because weapon damage means you divide the AP by 14 before adjusting for weapon speed (IIRC).
    And ?
    "You deal 50% of your weapon damage" vs "You deal 50%/14 of your AP"

    Just because it goes off weapon vs ap doesn't really mean much (yes it's better, but not that much)

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    PPM



    And ?
    "You deal 50% of your weapon damage" vs "You deal 50%/14 of your AP"

    Just because it goes off weapon vs ap doesn't really mean much (yes it's better, but not that much)
    I thought they changed it to 20% total AP?
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  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    PPM
    PPM itself doesn't work in favor of Sword and Board.
    They'd have to actually increase the proc chance for prot paladins slightly and prot warriors significantly for them to gain the same damage from the proc as other classes.
    Armories:
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  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    I thought they changed it to 20% total AP?
    Was showing how they can have it scaling off AP vs scaling off weapon DMG with it hitting ~ equally hard.

    But yes, procs i guess can make a diff.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Well, I saw a discussion on this before hand with the haste / mastery cloak being the best choice. However, they are adding something to the tanking cloak that would make us survive an otherwise unsurvivable hit. I would just like to know if the proc makes the lose of a valuable state like haste worth it? I mean, one shot mechanics aren't really around thus far this expansion. I also don't see blizzard all of the suddenly designing bosses that would actually assume that a tank has the legendary cloak (since some won't). So I am hesitant as to what to do. Especially since Im on the last part before I go and get the celestials blessings.
    I prefer the dps cloak, however this is partially due to how crucial tank dps is to a 10m raid in heroics.

  6. #166
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Do you have any actual source?

    The likelihood of this happening is approximately zero. Only a few % of the raiding playerbase has cloaks. Sure, that % is mostly at the top of the "food chain", but it's not those players that you have to worry about. It's Johnny Average, who's at 4/12N and on step 3 still, who can't then walk into SoO and have any chance in hell at winning.
    really no excuse for ANYBODY to not have the cloak unless they just started or are an absolute moron since everything you need for it can be done in Looking For Retards.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by xebtria View Post
    blizzard stated itself, they don't want to make dodge and parry more attractive. they rather want to remove the feel of it being absolutely useless. they'd like to create a feel that if you happen to take dodge and parry, it has some use at least.

    so I wouldn't say, that haste is pulling even further away (and neither the opposite), I'd just say ... it stays roughly the same. that being said, haste is still tops. dps cloak is still the one to aim for.
    they removed the usefulness of dodge/parry when they moved block to a separate roll thereby removing all chance of getting off the hit chart.


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  7. #167
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    I could have sworn they changed the DPS legendary cloak to only proc for DPS-specs, or was that one of the trinkets? There was something that was changed, maybe it was the meta?
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  8. #168
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ssateneth View Post
    Which is better? An alive tank or a dead tank? You decide.
    Blizzard would not outlive the QQ of the unwashed masses if the legendary tank cloak proc was made necessary for ANY boss mechanic.

    Therefore the live tank dead tank argument is not valid when applied to choice of cloaks.


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  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    I could have sworn they changed the DPS legendary cloak to only proc for DPS-specs, or was that one of the trinkets? There was something that was changed, maybe it was the meta?
    Maybe the CD-reduction trinket.
    BUT!

    2013-07-20, 06:43 AM
    Month+ old thread, stop necroing.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    really no excuse for ANYBODY to not have the cloak unless they just started or are an absolute moron since everything you need for it can be done in Looking For Retards.
    While I don't disagree, I bolded the big issue.

    Considering that Blizz would be simply providing ANOTHER barrier to entry for raiding (of which most people say there are far too many already), AND would be alienating any re-rolls, returning players and new players, it's a pretty safe bet that LFR/Flex, and likely even Normal are balanced around no capes required.

    HC modes will likely have the assumption of 95%+ members having cloaks, but even last tier, we had a re-roll a few weeks in and our Mage STILL never got his cape before we took our break for 5.4. And that was with us farming 13/13 for ~2.5 months before stopping.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  11. #171
    Brewmaster durrtygoodz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanko View Post
    Maybe the CD-reduction trinket.
    BUT!

    2013-07-20, 06:43 AM
    Month+ old thread, stop necroing.
    I wouldn't call a month old thread a necro especially when the discussion is still relevant

  12. #172
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanko View Post
    Maybe the CD-reduction trinket.
    BUT!

    2013-07-20, 06:43 AM
    Month+ old thread, stop necroing.
    True, but this thread still has merit I think since a lot could have (did?) happened in a month, and since 5.4 isn't here yet the talk about which cloak Prot should use is still IMO relevant.
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  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    I could have sworn they changed the DPS legendary cloak to only proc for DPS-specs, or was that one of the trinkets? There was something that was changed, maybe it was the meta?
    Vice Versa; Tank cape won't proc for DPS, but DPS procs for tanks (just 40% less often)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanko View Post
    Maybe the CD-reduction trinket.
    The CDR trinket for TANKS works for us, but not the STR one. However, Thok's works for tanks still, for now.

    BUT!

    2013-07-20, 06:43 AM
    Month+ old thread, stop necroing.
    It's that Chille guy, he's bumped like 6-7 threads from July today.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    True, but this thread still has merit I think since a lot could have (did?) happened in a month, and since 5.4 isn't here yet the talk about which cloak Prot should use is still IMO relevant.
    Except that no-one is a adding anything new and relevant to the discussion.

  15. #175
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    While I don't disagree, I bolded the big issue.

    Considering that Blizz would be simply providing ANOTHER barrier to entry for raiding (of which most people say there are far too many already), AND would be alienating any re-rolls, returning players and new players, it's a pretty safe bet that LFR/Flex, and likely even Normal are balanced around no capes required.

    HC modes will likely have the assumption of 95%+ members having cloaks, but even last tier, we had a re-roll a few weeks in and our Mage STILL never got his cape before we took our break for 5.4. And that was with us farming 13/13 for ~2.5 months before stopping.
    Didn't Blizz say that ALL LFR would drop legendary quest items once 5.4 goes live? "catch up mechanic".


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  16. #176
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Didn't Blizz say that ALL LFR would drop legendary quest items once 5.4 goes live? "catch up mechanic".
    I thought they said just SoO LFR would drop all of them (Sigils, Secrets, Runestones) but not 100% sure.
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  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Didn't Blizz say that ALL LFR would drop legendary quest items once 5.4 goes live? "catch up mechanic".
    Right, and you're still not getting the point to how a barrier to entry works, even in the presence of catch-up mechanics.

    If, for example, Normal mode raiding requires a tank cloak for your tanks to survive a boss, you will not be able to progress in normal until the tank(s) have their capes.
    Flex, which has 1 wing released on 10Sep, will not have these items drop (AFAIK), which means that you can surely get more gear in flex (albeit subpar to N-mode), but no legendary cape.
    LFR will only be released the week (or 2) after normal, and only 1 wing/4 bosses. That means that you'd have to wait 2 weeks to even START farming new LFR, which will certainly take a while given that it's only 1 wing of bosses, to try and finish the legendary so that you can even START progression in normal modes.

    Granted, that assumes that you've got a reroll/new recruit who needs geared. Maybe a DK tank is just tired of being awful and decides to swap to a warr/pal/monk to help his raid. That's a BIG setback, and one that isn't very uncommon. I DO agree with you that most anyone who has been playing and cares about real raiding is likely done with their capes, but just trying to illustrate why they couldn't feasibly balance around the expectation that EVERYONE has them.

    Now, for certain, the new "catch up mechanism" is very welcomed. From what I recall, the first 8 (I think 8) bosses in SoO will drop all parts of the quest chain. I don't bother much with my alts, but they're all on the secrets/stones portion of the quests. However, they're also sitting at ~515-525 ilvl, and therefore have NO reason to do LFR aside from these miserable RNG items. So, in 5.4, I can at least feel like I'm not totally wasting their time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  18. #178
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Granted, that assumes that you've got a reroll/new recruit who needs geared. Maybe a DK tank is just tired of being awful and decides to swap to a warr/pal/monk to help his raid. That's a BIG setback, and one that isn't very uncommon. I DO agree with you that most anyone who has been playing and cares about real raiding is likely done with their capes, but just trying to illustrate why they couldn't feasibly balance around the expectation that EVERYONE has them.

    Now, for certain, the new "catch up mechanism" is very welcomed. From what I recall, the first 8 (I think 8) bosses in SoO will drop all parts of the quest chain. I don't bother much with my alts, but they're all on the secrets/stones portion of the quests. However, they're also sitting at ~515-525 ilvl, and therefore have NO reason to do LFR aside from these miserable RNG items. So, in 5.4, I can at least feel like I'm not totally wasting their time.
    Exactly this. I started late with bad luck so I'm only halfway through Secrets, and my co-tank is trying to re-roll Monk so he'd have to start from scratch so it will take us a while, but it's not going to be impossible especially with the catch-up mechanics coming.
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  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Didn't Blizz say that ALL LFR would drop legendary quest items once 5.4 goes live? "catch up mechanic".
    The raid drops aren't what holds alts up, it is the reputation grind for the Black Prince. It was OK for mains, because you didn't have the +100% rep for daily quest hub factions, but your alts are exalted so fast you don't even get Black Prince to Revered by the time you're done with the factions.
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  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    The raid drops aren't what holds alts up, it is the reputation grind for the Black Prince. It was OK for mains, because you didn't have the +100% rep for daily quest hub factions, but your alts are exalted so fast you don't even get Black Prince to Revered by the time you're done with the factions.
    Go AOE down Sauroks with Potions of Luck on IoT, and you'll be revered in ~2 potions, exalted in another 2-3, with a lot of shit to show for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

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