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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickwickman View Post
    So far in PTR testing I can only think of one fight the tank cloak can be useful, and that is taking two hits of Immerseus' frontal nuke (600k magic dmg on normal, probably 1m in heroic). And while there it might be useful, on other fights I doubt you will get hit that hard as far as we can see now.

    'Small' hits devalue the tank proc, since negating a 100k melee and then getting hit for anything after that will kill you anyway (DoT or ground effect) so that makes the tank cloak useless.

    And I am still waiting to see if it saves you from ALL damage sources, and not just physical, for if it is physical, the dps cloak wins by a large margin seeing more SotR will be immensely more useful.
    Haven't had the chance to even look/test but are you suppose to take 2 hits of it ? and is it 300 & 300 or 600 & 600 on normal ?

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickwickman View Post
    So far in PTR testing I can only think of one fight the tank cloak can be useful, and that is taking two hits of Immerseus' frontal nuke (600k magic dmg on normal, probably 1m in heroic). And while there it might be useful, on other fights I doubt you will get hit that hard as far as we can see now.

    'Small' hits devalue the tank proc, since negating a 100k melee and then getting hit for anything after that will kill you anyway (DoT or ground effect) so that makes the tank cloak useless.

    And I am still waiting to see if it saves you from ALL damage sources, and not just physical, for if it is physical, the dps cloak wins by a large margin seeing more SotR will be immensely more useful.
    I solo tanked Immerseus, with proper cooldown management and dps there will be maximum of 2 breaths in a phase and if you use some big or 2 small cds on the 2nd breath youre fine.

  3. #83
    Dreadlord Choice's Avatar
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    I have no plans to switch to the tank cloak right now. That may change depending on how the testing panes out and what changes. The thing is that this isn't a necessary addition to the paladin toolkit. Between AD, LoH, WoG/Bastion and the fact that as a haste build we're considered the most stable tanks by a decent margin, we simply have no need for an additional outage.

    The DPS cloak's benefit will be solid, but by no means as good as the meta gem. So it can be forgiven if people end up going the route of the outage just because it has some tanking implications. I don't think you'll see many people actually doing it though. Simply because so much would need to go wrong for you to even notice it as a paladin.

    It'd be a different story if it was just the abilities themselves to chose from, but with the ilevel of the cloaks there's a lot of budgeting in them, so switching between them won't be as harmless as some may initially feel.

    Comparing it to the old AD isn't really an accurate comparison though. the 3.x incarnation of AD was around when paladins only had DP acting as our S/wall. As a result when DP was down, you'd lost all control over your damage intake. This is no longer the case, the complete opposite is true now due to active mitigation. Also note that AD was a 35% heal, so most of the gripe came from it's PvP implications, not from a PvE perspective.

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  4. #84
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    UHHHHH if it absorbs a hit that could kill you it might be required for some late tier heroic fights. Also I'm pretty sure the 5.5 Questline is completely soloable by doing events and grinding on the Timeless isle. The fact to EVEN DO one of the world bosses people need to have to cloak pretty much says it's a solo grind.

    It's their own little way of "forcing" the playerbase into their new experimental open world quest / treasure hunting design in a more direct way then battlefield barrens. Infact treasure hunting is one of the ways to obtani your 50 timeless coins needed to make the cloak proc. Grind baby grind.

    Considering you can have both though <I think? one in bank?> Prolly be a better idea to use different cloaks for different fights.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-07-03 at 09:23 AM.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    UHHHHH if it absorbs a hit that could kill you it might be required for some late tier heroic fights.
    Except it won't. If you're in a position where your paladin tank is taking so much damage that he actually takes a fatal hit (assuming that your tank actually knows what he's doing) 99% of the time it would've been a wipe anyway. I can't in any way see how the tank cloak would be more beneficial with that in mind.
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  6. #86
    Mechagnome darkminaz's Avatar
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    the proc is amazing, free "u can't die" .. wait no .. i'm wrong it sucks since well atleast our tanks are good enough to basicly never die (most of the time it's boom meele dead, boom caster dead, boom healer dead .. boom more healer dead .. wype) and if a tank drops they got soulstone so hmm

    our paladin probably gets the dmg one, to be #1 again ^^

  7. #87
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    the tank cloak would be good (yet horribly overpowered at the same time), if it would be like "if you take a fatal hit, it heals you up to ##% of you total health instead. all subsequent attacks are reduced by ##% and every subsequent attack that would kill you heals you up to ##% again for x seconds". but then again, everyone would just take the cloak (including healers and dps) and it would be a free ticket to exploit certain boss abilities ("just soak it the cloak will heal everyone up to ##% for x seconds anyway").

    another good idea would be to let the cloak stack some buff up when you take damage from a mob that has you as #1 aggro list or something, and when reaching ## stacks, you get an extra button, that could be an absorb shield or a damage reduction ability for x seconds.

    but that "fully absorbs one attack that would kill you otherwise once every 60 seconds" is bullshit.

  8. #88
    I think the problem comes in the fact that because its a legendary cloak, you are not expected to have it when progressing on fights, and therefor the bosses are designed around you not having the cloak.

    When the top guys get the cloak they will have cleared everything unless there is a huge block in the way. If they didnt need it, why would anyone else?

    Also the fact that you could argue, if it procced once, maybe twice during a fight because you planned for it to proc at that time, it would be better to have the DPS cloak, simply because the fight ends faster. Take the meta gem, on our latest Twins HC kill, our prot pala's gem did 9.3mill damage, now he could have 9.3mill damage or the 20% damage reduction up every now and again.

    The EXACT same scenario plays out with the cloak, and I would imagine the cloak to be even more powerful than the meta gem.
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  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiea View Post
    I think the problem comes in the fact that because its a legendary cloak, you are not expected to have it when progressing on fights, and therefor the bosses are designed around you not having the cloak.

    When the top guys get the cloak they will have cleared everything unless there is a huge block in the way. If they didnt need it, why would anyone else?
    I would argue that it's actually the other way around. Most bosses late into the raid (or at least heroic fights) are most likely going to be tuned with the idea that your guild will have their legendaries. If they truly didn't expect people to have it during progression...what's the point of giving us legendary cloaks? To make farming easier?

    The raids are never designed around WF players. They are mostly the best of the best and can squeeze out every bit of DPS/HPS using their gear. MSV may not have needed 476-489 gear to clear (as clearly shown by WF guilds) but how many guilds out there could clear that raid in 463 heroics?

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by paulleedot View Post
    I would argue that it's actually the other way around. Most bosses late into the raid (or at least heroic fights) are most likely going to be tuned with the idea that your guild will have their legendaries. If they truly didn't expect people to have it during progression...what's the point of giving us legendary cloaks? To make farming easier?

    The raids are never designed around WF players. They are mostly the best of the best and can squeeze out every bit of DPS/HPS using their gear. MSV may not have needed 476-489 gear to clear (as clearly shown by WF guilds) but how many guilds out there could clear that raid in 463 heroics?
    But how are you going to design a fight which requires the tank-proc?

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by paulleedot View Post
    I would argue that it's actually the other way around. Most bosses late into the raid (or at least heroic fights) are most likely going to be tuned with the idea that your guild will have their legendaries. If they truly didn't expect people to have it during progression...what's the point of giving us legendary cloaks? To make farming easier?

    The raids are never designed around WF players. They are mostly the best of the best and can squeeze out every bit of DPS/HPS using their gear. MSV may not have needed 476-489 gear to clear (as clearly shown by WF guilds) but how many guilds out there could clear that raid in 463 heroics?
    Doesn't have to be world first, raiding 20 hours/ a week in Cataclysm, we never got a legendary before we killed the end tier boss.

    Besides there are other reasons why they can't design a fight around 1 item, mainly because not everyone have it, you join in late in the expansion, so therefor you cannot kill the last boss? what kind of logic is that.

    And yes, legendaries are mostly just for farming or the next tier (If any, in this case no), that is the whole point with them adding in the most powerful things in the last tier.
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  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Wanko View Post
    But how are you going to design a fight which requires the tank-proc?
    Tuned around and designed for are very different.

    Fights could have stricter DPS checks and/or healing checks...not necessarily you must have the legendary cloak to survive mechanics.

    That said, i'm sure the fights will be doable without the cloaks, just a lot easier if you have them. When our hunter got his 600 cloak last week, we saw his DPS jump up significantly. That alone didn't make or break anything, but it certainly made things easier.

  13. #93
    I expect eventually Blizzard will allow a way to get both or switch.

    The thing with the tanking cloak is that the proc is the type of thing that allows tanks to cheese mechanics, turn 2 tank fights into 1 tank fights, and solo old raid bosses and also the type of thing that might actually be useful when 6.1 comes out.

    The DPS cloak might be better for 5.4, but it's the type of thing you will put in your bank and never use again.

  14. #94
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulleedot View Post
    Fights could have stricter DPS checks and/or healing checks...
    Wouldn't that make the DPS cloak even more "required?"

  15. #95
    They should just change the proc for the tanking cloak. Something like;

    "Chance on hit to gain Niuzao's Fortitude, reducing all damage taken by 20% for 3 seconds."

    Would be far more beneficial.

  16. #96
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    even then, it would not be better than dps cloak. because of murphy's law, the cloak never would proc when you would need it, and when it procs, you don't need it.
    to be good for tanking, it must be controllable.

    imagine spark of zandalar (a stacking buff, maybe from damage taken), and when reaching let's say 10 stacks, you get a second buff that lasts ... 30 seconds or so, during which you can use the cloak for some sort damage reduction cooldown. stacks would only start stacking again when that second buff runs out or is consumed by using the cloak.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Guyviroth View Post
    They should just change the proc for the tanking cloak. Something like;

    "Chance on hit to gain Niuzao's Fortitude, reducing all damage taken by 20% for 3 seconds."

    Would be far more beneficial.
    More random TDR? How would the be beneficial.

    For the cloak to be good it must be either a static help or an on-use effect.
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  18. #98
    Has anyone considered the DPS caster cloak for tanks? It has same itemisation as DPS cloak (minus strength and socket bonus) and my question is whether the proc be significantly more damage (unless every fight is a mega cleave/AOE fight?)

    I do not think weapon damage scales with vengeance (?) but if the fire dot does, that could be pretty strong.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by SantaMaria View Post
    Has anyone considered the DPS caster cloak for tanks? It has same itemisation as DPS cloak (minus strength and socket bonus) and my question is whether the proc be significantly more damage (unless every fight is a mega cleave/AOE fight?)

    I do not think weapon damage scales with vengeance (?) but if the fire dot does, that could be pretty strong.
    We considered it earlier before the ptr was released, but we were not sure how often it would proc and if it scaled with vengeance. Has anyone tested it yet?

    Edit: Can you even get the cloaks on PTR yet? :P
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    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  20. #100
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SantaMaria View Post
    Has anyone considered the DPS caster cloak for tanks? It has same itemisation as DPS cloak (minus strength and socket bonus) and my question is whether the proc be significantly more damage (unless every fight is a mega cleave/AOE fight?)

    I do not think weapon damage scales with vengeance (?) but if the fire dot does, that could be pretty strong.
    Weapon Damage does scale, I believe AP/14 is added to weapon DPS.

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