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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Well, I saw a discussion on this before hand with the haste / mastery cloak being the best choice. However, they are adding something to the tanking cloak that would make us survive an otherwise unsurvivable hit. I would just like to know if the proc makes the lose of a valuable state like haste worth it? I mean, one shot mechanics aren't really around thus far this expansion. I also don't see blizzard all of the suddenly designing bosses that would actually assume that a tank has the legendary cloak (since some won't). So I am hesitant as to what to do. Especially since Im on the last part before I go and get the celestials blessings.
    I prefer the dps cloak, however this is partially due to how crucial tank dps is to a 10m raid in heroics.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Do you have any actual source?

    The likelihood of this happening is approximately zero. Only a few % of the raiding playerbase has cloaks. Sure, that % is mostly at the top of the "food chain", but it's not those players that you have to worry about. It's Johnny Average, who's at 4/12N and on step 3 still, who can't then walk into SoO and have any chance in hell at winning.
    really no excuse for ANYBODY to not have the cloak unless they just started or are an absolute moron since everything you need for it can be done in Looking For Retards.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by xebtria View Post
    blizzard stated itself, they don't want to make dodge and parry more attractive. they rather want to remove the feel of it being absolutely useless. they'd like to create a feel that if you happen to take dodge and parry, it has some use at least.

    so I wouldn't say, that haste is pulling even further away (and neither the opposite), I'd just say ... it stays roughly the same. that being said, haste is still tops. dps cloak is still the one to aim for.
    they removed the usefulness of dodge/parry when they moved block to a separate roll thereby removing all chance of getting off the hit chart.
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  3. #163
    I could have sworn they changed the DPS legendary cloak to only proc for DPS-specs, or was that one of the trinkets? There was something that was changed, maybe it was the meta?

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Ssateneth View Post
    Which is better? An alive tank or a dead tank? You decide.
    Blizzard would not outlive the QQ of the unwashed masses if the legendary tank cloak proc was made necessary for ANY boss mechanic.

    Therefore the live tank dead tank argument is not valid when applied to choice of cloaks.
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  5. #165
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    I could have sworn they changed the DPS legendary cloak to only proc for DPS-specs, or was that one of the trinkets? There was something that was changed, maybe it was the meta?
    Maybe the CD-reduction trinket.
    BUT!

    2013-07-20, 06:43 AM
    Month+ old thread, stop necroing.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    really no excuse for ANYBODY to not have the cloak unless they just started or are an absolute moron since everything you need for it can be done in Looking For Retards.
    While I don't disagree, I bolded the big issue.

    Considering that Blizz would be simply providing ANOTHER barrier to entry for raiding (of which most people say there are far too many already), AND would be alienating any re-rolls, returning players and new players, it's a pretty safe bet that LFR/Flex, and likely even Normal are balanced around no capes required.

    HC modes will likely have the assumption of 95%+ members having cloaks, but even last tier, we had a re-roll a few weeks in and our Mage STILL never got his cape before we took our break for 5.4. And that was with us farming 13/13 for ~2.5 months before stopping.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Wanko View Post
    Maybe the CD-reduction trinket.
    BUT!

    2013-07-20, 06:43 AM
    Month+ old thread, stop necroing.
    I wouldn't call a month old thread a necro especially when the discussion is still relevant
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    I'm glad you brought up IQ, the last standardised IQ test I took I scored a 127, the threshold for 'Genius' is 140, and the threshold for 'Gifted Genius' is 165+, based on the fact the global average IQ is 84, and the fact you're likely Americanwhere the national IQ is BELOW the global average and falling consistently which has led to calls for global intervention in your abysmal education system, I feel you have VERY LITTLE room to talk about IQ levels, but thanks for trying.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Wanko View Post
    Maybe the CD-reduction trinket.
    BUT!

    2013-07-20, 06:43 AM
    Month+ old thread, stop necroing.
    True, but this thread still has merit I think since a lot could have (did?) happened in a month, and since 5.4 isn't here yet the talk about which cloak Prot should use is still IMO relevant.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    I could have sworn they changed the DPS legendary cloak to only proc for DPS-specs, or was that one of the trinkets? There was something that was changed, maybe it was the meta?
    Vice Versa; Tank cape won't proc for DPS, but DPS procs for tanks (just 40% less often)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanko View Post
    Maybe the CD-reduction trinket.
    The CDR trinket for TANKS works for us, but not the STR one. However, Thok's works for tanks still, for now.

    BUT!

    2013-07-20, 06:43 AM
    Month+ old thread, stop necroing.
    It's that Chille guy, he's bumped like 6-7 threads from July today.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  10. #170
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    True, but this thread still has merit I think since a lot could have (did?) happened in a month, and since 5.4 isn't here yet the talk about which cloak Prot should use is still IMO relevant.
    Except that no-one is a adding anything new and relevant to the discussion.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    While I don't disagree, I bolded the big issue.

    Considering that Blizz would be simply providing ANOTHER barrier to entry for raiding (of which most people say there are far too many already), AND would be alienating any re-rolls, returning players and new players, it's a pretty safe bet that LFR/Flex, and likely even Normal are balanced around no capes required.

    HC modes will likely have the assumption of 95%+ members having cloaks, but even last tier, we had a re-roll a few weeks in and our Mage STILL never got his cape before we took our break for 5.4. And that was with us farming 13/13 for ~2.5 months before stopping.
    Didn't Blizz say that ALL LFR would drop legendary quest items once 5.4 goes live? "catch up mechanic".
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Didn't Blizz say that ALL LFR would drop legendary quest items once 5.4 goes live? "catch up mechanic".
    I thought they said just SoO LFR would drop all of them (Sigils, Secrets, Runestones) but not 100% sure.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Didn't Blizz say that ALL LFR would drop legendary quest items once 5.4 goes live? "catch up mechanic".
    Right, and you're still not getting the point to how a barrier to entry works, even in the presence of catch-up mechanics.

    If, for example, Normal mode raiding requires a tank cloak for your tanks to survive a boss, you will not be able to progress in normal until the tank(s) have their capes.
    Flex, which has 1 wing released on 10Sep, will not have these items drop (AFAIK), which means that you can surely get more gear in flex (albeit subpar to N-mode), but no legendary cape.
    LFR will only be released the week (or 2) after normal, and only 1 wing/4 bosses. That means that you'd have to wait 2 weeks to even START farming new LFR, which will certainly take a while given that it's only 1 wing of bosses, to try and finish the legendary so that you can even START progression in normal modes.

    Granted, that assumes that you've got a reroll/new recruit who needs geared. Maybe a DK tank is just tired of being awful and decides to swap to a warr/pal/monk to help his raid. That's a BIG setback, and one that isn't very uncommon. I DO agree with you that most anyone who has been playing and cares about real raiding is likely done with their capes, but just trying to illustrate why they couldn't feasibly balance around the expectation that EVERYONE has them.

    Now, for certain, the new "catch up mechanism" is very welcomed. From what I recall, the first 8 (I think 8) bosses in SoO will drop all parts of the quest chain. I don't bother much with my alts, but they're all on the secrets/stones portion of the quests. However, they're also sitting at ~515-525 ilvl, and therefore have NO reason to do LFR aside from these miserable RNG items. So, in 5.4, I can at least feel like I'm not totally wasting their time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Granted, that assumes that you've got a reroll/new recruit who needs geared. Maybe a DK tank is just tired of being awful and decides to swap to a warr/pal/monk to help his raid. That's a BIG setback, and one that isn't very uncommon. I DO agree with you that most anyone who has been playing and cares about real raiding is likely done with their capes, but just trying to illustrate why they couldn't feasibly balance around the expectation that EVERYONE has them.

    Now, for certain, the new "catch up mechanism" is very welcomed. From what I recall, the first 8 (I think 8) bosses in SoO will drop all parts of the quest chain. I don't bother much with my alts, but they're all on the secrets/stones portion of the quests. However, they're also sitting at ~515-525 ilvl, and therefore have NO reason to do LFR aside from these miserable RNG items. So, in 5.4, I can at least feel like I'm not totally wasting their time.
    Exactly this. I started late with bad luck so I'm only halfway through Secrets, and my co-tank is trying to re-roll Monk so he'd have to start from scratch so it will take us a while, but it's not going to be impossible especially with the catch-up mechanics coming.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Didn't Blizz say that ALL LFR would drop legendary quest items once 5.4 goes live? "catch up mechanic".
    The raid drops aren't what holds alts up, it is the reputation grind for the Black Prince. It was OK for mains, because you didn't have the +100% rep for daily quest hub factions, but your alts are exalted so fast you don't even get Black Prince to Revered by the time you're done with the factions.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    The raid drops aren't what holds alts up, it is the reputation grind for the Black Prince. It was OK for mains, because you didn't have the +100% rep for daily quest hub factions, but your alts are exalted so fast you don't even get Black Prince to Revered by the time you're done with the factions.
    Go AOE down Sauroks with Potions of Luck on IoT, and you'll be revered in ~2 potions, exalted in another 2-3, with a lot of shit to show for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  17. #177
    Deleted
    Found aoeing the bloodguards to be faster, actually just did it on my alt.

    The hardest and most time consuming part of the legendary chain is still winning a silvershard mines game. *Grumpy that I just did 7 silvershard mines losses on my hunter*

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    The raid drops aren't what holds alts up, it is the reputation grind for the Black Prince. It was OK for mains, because you didn't have the +100% rep for daily quest hub factions, but your alts are exalted so fast you don't even get Black Prince to Revered by the time you're done with the factions.
    I managed to get my alt warlock exalted just by doing enough dailies to get my 3 charms/runes per week. I didn't level my warlock until halfway through the first tier. I wasn't even thinking about Black Prince rep at the time. It's not difficult in the slightest.

    (hell, I didn't even start getting my warlock Secrets until 5.3 and now both of my characters are ready for their legendary cloak, so that part isn't a barrier, either).

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Found aoeing the bloodguards to be faster, actually just did it on my alt.

    The hardest and most time consuming part of the legendary chain is still winning a silvershard mines game. *Grumpy that I just did 7 silvershard mines losses on my hunter*

    Agreed, THIS is the barrier to entry :P

    In all seriousness, time-played is the first barrier, but Silvershard Mine is the second!
    Last edited by Belloc; 2013-09-04 at 04:25 PM.
    Grand Crusader Belloc <-- 6608 Endless Tank Proving Grounds score! (
    Dragonslayer Kooqu

  19. #179
    Meh, I think I won my games on my DK, Pal and Monk (only 3 that I've cared enough to get that far with) within 2 tries tops in each BG. Just get 1-2 other people who aren't windowlickers at PVP and it's not that bad. Esp now with the resil changes.

    Hell, I went like 14-0 in SSM on my WW in crap PVE gear lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  20. #180
    Blademaster
    10+ Year Old Account
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    Hmmph, I had no issues with the mines, while murder-ball took several tries. Yet it was the Runestones in the end that broke me, going 4 weeks in a row with zero drops, which went one a week after the 100% drop from Lei Shen was patched. Made me not want to bother on my alts.

    SJ

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