US Bugged EU Offices and Computers to Gain Secret Information

[Woltereck]

What perplexes me is the fact that people are naive enough to think that this hasn't been going on since WWII, or when the NSA formed in 1952. Of course Governments are going to do this, they should be doing this.

[Benggaul]

I called him a liar because he didn't fulfill the promises he made while running for the presidency, such as the promise he made about closing down Guantanamo.

Just as a quick FYI seeing as how this is off-topic, he signed an executive order early on during his first term to close Guantanamo, but Congress blocked it. If memory serves he also tried again more recently but with much the same result. So, whatever else you want to blame him for, this one isn't on him. The President of the United States has less power than most people give the position credit for.

"Washington gridlock" does not refer to the traffic.

[Laize]

Just as a quick FYI seeing as how this is off-topic, he signed an executive order early on during his first term to close Guantanamo, but Congress blocked it. If memory serves he also tried again more recently but with much the same result. So, whatever else you want to blame him for, this one isn't on him. The President of the United States has less power than most people give the position credit for.

The NSA is an executive agency answerable only to the Secretary of Defense and the President himself.

He may have limited ability to handle legislative matters, but the administration of the NSA and the way he chooses to enforce the FISA amendment is completely within his authority.

Bush chose to implement it in a completely opaque manner that positively reeks of Big Brother. Obama sits his ass in the Oval Office and said to himself "Yeah everyone hated Bush and pretty much universally thinks he was a terrible leader... but this? This was the only good idea he ever had. Let's keep on truckin'."

[Wikiy]

This reflects on something I said elsewhere. Most Europeans when it comes to Obama are abolitionist to the extreme. Even if he is doing a lot of things that they find very politically agreeable, the ones that get under their skin - even if they don't matter like Guantanamo - really get under their skin.

Most Europeans would care about his economic policies. I don't. Most people anywhere care about economic policies. I don't. Well, I do to some degree, but social issues are far, far above economics on my list for importance.

Edit: And don't mistake this for me saying he is a bad president. I just have issues with some of his policies. I'll admit, we Europeans did blindly expect someone even more leftist, but that's primarily due to his campaign. Realistically, a more leftist president of the US can't really be expected.

[Deleted]

That doesn't make him a liar. That makes him a politician. You know, he may have not closed Guantanamo, but he embraced an aggressive Economic Stimulus plan that likely helped stave off another depression, and counterbalanced the EU's extremely poorly reasoned austerity programmes. So what is he? A lair over a minor deal like Guantanamo, or a hero for his aggressive economic platform and passing universal healthcare?

Lol, do you honestly believe the US is better off than the EU? All the US did was delay the inevitable, some day a future generation will have to deal with the debt. At least in the EU we deal with it now so that we have a brighter future, and we don't burden our future generations with it.

Think long term instead of short term.

[Kraenen]

Do people actually still take nationalism as a valid argument?

[Benggaul]

The NSA is an executive agency answerable only to the Secretary of Defense and the President himself.

He may have limited ability to handle legislative matters, but the administration of the NSA and the way he chooses to enforce the FISA amendment is completely within his authority.

Bush chose to implement it in a completely opaque manner that positively reeks of Big Brother. Obama sits his ass in the Oval Office and said to himself "Yeah everyone hated Bush and pretty much universally thinks he was a terrible leader... but this? This was the only good idea he ever had. Let's keep on truckin'."

You appear to be under the mistaken impression that I was talking about anything other than the closing of Guantanamo, which I stated quite clearly. Might want to point those rants at the people they're intended for.

[Korgoth]

Lol, do you honestly believe the US is better off than the EU? All the US did was delay the inevitable, some day a future generation will have to deal with the debt. At least in the EU we deal with it now so that we have a brighter future, and we don't burden our future generations with it.

Think long term instead of short term.

Hahaha that's a good joke.

Look at Debt vs GDP, look at Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Ireland... You have to deal with the debt now because you let it spiral out of control and it threatens to sink the EURO and the entire continent with it, and possibly the global recovery with that.

The reality is in countries like Greece the future is already ruined. Just look at the unemployment amount for the young. It's a lost generation.

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I haven't been a fan of Obama from the beginning... but I did find this particular take on his campaign posters amusing.

That's just lazy. I prefer the one where it still says "Yes We Can" then in fine print it adds "take control of your systems, read your email, track your location...."

[Deleted]

Yeah, if Skroesec could stop stroking his Murica-peen, that would be great.

In other news, as Kalis said, if the EU and China cut out the US from trade agreements, the US would have to bow to whatever renegotiated terms are forced upon them.

[Kalyyn]

Yeah, if Skroesec could stop stroking his Murica-peen, that would be great.

In other news, as Kalis said, if the EU and China cut out the US from trade agreements, the US would have to bow to whatever renegotiated terms are forced upon them.

So do it. What's stopping you?

My guess would be the fact that half your elected officials have been bought out by the US.

[Kalis]

So do it. What's stopping you?

My guess would be the fact that half your elected officials have been bought out by the US.

At the moment it isn't economically viable to do so, so why would they want to?

[Kalyyn]

At the moment it isn't economically viable to do so, so why would they want to?

Because all of those trade agreements strongly favor the US. And since you're claiming that the EU has strong leverage over the US, why not renegotiate better terms?

[Kalis]

Because all of those trade agreements strongly favor the US. And since you're claiming that the EU has strong leverage over the US, why not renegotiate better terms?

Having preferential terms for the US doesn't mean that the EU is not benefitting.

Do you understand the basics of why the EU would be okay with that?

[Kalyyn]

Having preferential terms for the US doesn't mean that the EU is not benefitting.

Do you understand the basics of why the EU would be okay with that?

If the EU has as much power over the US as you claim, then they'd have been stupid to not demand equal footing when it comes to trade. I think it's pretty clear that the US has a vast array of EU politicians in it's pocket.

[Halicia]

I would have been more shocked if they weren't spying on Europe.


Just wondering how US citizens would feel if it came out that EU governments had done the same to the US?

France's head of intelligence came out years ago saying that he personally directed all intelligence assets to focus on corporate espionage against the US.

As he said "Politically and Militarily we are allies, but Economically... rivals."

Also keep in mind that the very nature of democracies ensures that "allied" nations are frenemies at best. Simply because the current regime is 'on your side' doesn't mean that come next election they won't be pointing missiles at your borders... and its *much* easier to develop intelligence assets in a friendly nation than in one readying for war against you.

At the very least, having your own intelligence assets in 'friendly' countries 'keeps them honest' and may even prove to be diplomatically beneficial when you are able to share information in their nation's defense or interests.

[Kalis]

If the EU has as much power over the US as you claim, then they'd have been stupid to not demand equal footing when it comes to trade. I think it's pretty clear that the US has a vast array of EU politicians in it's pocket.

No, you clearly don't understand the basics.

[Bakis]

Because all of those trade agreements strongly favor the US. And since you're claiming that the EU has strong leverage over the US, why not renegotiate better terms?

Cos the US supply military muscle that the EU dont have to invest into.
Many americans see their military might as something the EU dont have which is true.
What they dont see is that we let the US spend that money so we dont have too, the trade-off is exactly what you refer to.