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  1. #1

    Unhappy Typical disappointment with current PTR notes

    I'd like to beg to Blizz to not remove SS from BM and make Readiness a mainly defensive ability...the majority of people asking for those nerfs are crying because they get roflstomped by a class they don't know how to fight. Instead of focusing on making BM less viable, why not make MM more viable? The spec is garbage and needs retooling, IMO it's far too based on RNGs waiting for the aimed shot proc, primarily using steady shot is fucking boring and makes playing the spec awkward and unrewarding. Plus what about survival? The spec is even worse than MM in most cases and lacks a lot of utility even in comparison to MM. Why not focus on making both of those specs better? There was a good attempt in 5.3, a lot of changes I agreed with, but now efforts are directed to hurting a spec that is actually good. I just don't get the reasoning or methodology, hunters are a really fun class to play and part of the reason I pay for my sub. Don't ruin it for the sake of the constantly declining community of try hards and cry babies.

    I understand BM is highly represented in high rated arenas/rbgs, but there's a damn good reason for that. Further damaging it isn't going to draw players to the other specs when they aren't that good. Why not give SS a longer CD (up from 24 secs, which is REALLY LOW), rather then remove it altogether and give it to shitty MM?

  2. #2
    OR! They can do that thing where spells work differently in PvE and PvP! No other game has ever been able to-- oh, almost all games have? Well WoW is awfully behind the times then.

  3. #3
    Really, in a raid, i can't interrupt anymore! the only interrupt i would have is scatter shot, that have a freakin high cd =|
    Or Blizzar doesn't care about PvE? Some nerfs on hunters are based in PvP, and they forget about PvE.
    I'd say its better to quit hunter and create a mage...

  4. #4
    scatter shot is NOT an interrupt.
    It do NOT work on bosses!

    Agree with rerolling part - been thinking for a while too. legendary quest keeps me back! I am on "test of valor" on my mage!

  5. #5
    time to go warlock for 6.0? I should have switched beginning of expansion

  6. #6
    The Hunter tears are amazing. Hunters are still going to be fine in PvE, you're a fool to think otherwise. Not having an interrupt hardly matters, all other DPS classes have one as do tanks, groups can easily bring a Hunter to any raid and not worry about it, even if you need to interrupt every 3 seconds, tank -> tank -> rogue -> mage -> shaman for example and there's your rotation, leaves 3 DPS and 2 healers out of the interrupt rotation. You're fine. Not having an interrupt hardly matters in PvE at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bafooga View Post
    I understand BM is highly represented in high rated arenas/rbgs, but there's a damn good reason for that.
    You're right. It's because BM is absurdly strong in PvP right now because they have an ridiculous number of CC skills. Silence -> Scatter -> Trap -> Readiness -> Scatter -> Trap -> pet stun -> silence. Balanced amirite? rofl. They're nerfing BM Hunters for a reason, you said it yourself, because they're too strong, and that's what happens when a class is too strong. Easier to nerf 1 class down than to buff the other 10 up.

  7. #7
    Brewmaster Bassch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    The Hunter tears are amazing. Hunters are still going to be fine in PvE, you're a fool to think otherwise. Not having an interrupt hardly matters, all other DPS classes have one as do tanks, groups can easily bring a Hunter to any raid and not worry about it, even if you need to interrupt every 3 seconds, tank -> tank -> rogue -> mage -> shaman for example and there's your rotation, leaves 3 DPS and 2 healers out of the interrupt rotation. You're fine. Not having an interrupt hardly matters in PvE at all.



    You're right. It's because BM is absurdly strong in PvP right now because they have an ridiculous number of CC skills. Silence -> Scatter -> Trap -> Readiness -> Scatter -> Trap -> pet stun -> silence. Balanced amirite? rofl. They're nerfing BM Hunters for a reason, you said it yourself, because they're too strong, and that's what happens when a class is too strong. Easier to nerf 1 class down than to buff the other 10 up.
    Imo, it would be easier to solve all of them CCs that BM Hunters have. Remove pet CCs, remove Scatter shot, rework trap. Make trap targetable like every other main CC in the game, have a 10 second CD or whatever and a 1 second cast time. Reduces the amount of buttons Hunters have, reduces CC chain and gives us CC reliability. It's makes CCing a lot easier for us in PVE, and gives us reliability in our CC in PVP, at the expense of our long CC combo.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    Not having an interrupt hardly matters, all other DPS classes have one as do tanks, groups can easily bring a Hunter to any raid and not worry about it
    For some it does. I can't play a class that doesn't have an interrupt and I wouldn't have picked Hunter as my main in MoP if it didn't have one. For some odd reason, UI can't show you (un-)interruptible casts if you don't have an interrupt and so many players are just bad or lazy with interrupts in PvE that I'd go crazy without one.

    You argument that others can interrupt just fine is nil. What matters is hunter toolset as a whole, not what others can/can't do. With that line of thought, you could as well not bring a hunter to raids and do fine. Why need hunters?

    If you look at that talent tier now, all hunters pick SS because it's good. In 5.4, I could as well pick none because they are all bad (talking about raids/PvE here). Intimidation is just bad, Binding Shot requires your tank to move mobs away from the arrow or it will do nothing (prolly the one all hunters will pick though) and Wyvern Sting is useless (when do you need 1 player to CC 2 targets?).

    Changing this and Readiness right after the Stampede change; you'll get disappointed hunters for sure..

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by NoGoal View Post
    Binding Shot requires your tank to move mobs away from the arrow or it will do nothing
    As far as I remember Binding Shot had a range higher than the stun requirement, so if you placed it correctly you could stun your target without it actually moving.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoGoal View Post
    Changing this and Readiness right after the Stampede change; you'll get disappointed hunters for sure..
    Why? They said they will compensate us for the damage we lost if they stick with the change to Readiness. And keep in mind, Survival should already be better in 5.4 due to the Arcane Shot buff. Also, we are going to see a buff to our signature abilities in 5.4, no way they will leave them as is when Arcane Shot is as strong as it is now.

    I just don't see hunters being weaker in 5.4 than on live right now. Maybe BM having it's burst lowered, but overall damage should be higher.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Noctifer616 View Post
    They said they will compensate us for the damage we lost if they stick with the change to Readiness.
    I'm not worried about DPS and I don't mind being the worst DPS class at 5% behind others. Latest changes weren't about DPS either, they were about utility in PvP.

    Stampede, Readiness and SS helped making good hunters stand out of bad ones, more than a proper usage of your spec shot. The more they remove additional mechanics (which I find fun, maybe not for new/less involved players), the gap between a good hunter and a I-just-spam-Arcane-Shot lessens. Some classes/specs are already pretty boring to play like that and I see them growing bored faster than me because their rotation is less involving, I don't want to reach that point.

  11. #11
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
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    I don't see how stampede or ss really increased the skill cap. For stampede you just hit the button when you wanted to burst and silencing shot is a pretty standard instant silence. I'll give you readiness, but the double traps, silencing shot and scatter were rather over the top.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post


    You're right. It's because BM is absurdly strong in PvP right now because they have an ridiculous number of CC skills. Silence -> Scatter -> Trap -> Readiness -> Scatter -> Trap -> pet stun -> silence. Balanced amirite? rofl. They're nerfing BM Hunters for a reason, you said it yourself, because they're too strong, and that's what happens when a class is too strong. Easier to nerf 1 class down than to buff the other 10 up.
    DR's make using readiness as a tool for a CC chain a pretty bad idea, if a hunter uses readiness to simply re-trap or re-silence a target immediately after affecting them with it then they are a fool. By the way, pet stun is no longer baseline for BM and is a talent, you can't pet stun-> silence anymore. That was bullshit. Crane sleep/ other pet CC on 45 sec CD was also bullshit. But those changes were implemented and implemented well. The reason readiness is strong for BM is because it resets abilities like beastial wrath (which should share at least a 30 second CD with readiness and possibly even trinket at this point). Having 3 ways to remove CC entirely is ridiculous- that I agree with. But removing the ability for readiness to reset CD's like rapid fire and powershot isn't necessary. We don't do stellar sustained damage, but we have really good burst damage. Don't approach a thread this upset when you haven't even caught up with the class.

    And another thing; it's easier to nerf one spec of one class, but it makes it less enjoyable to play as a result. My whole reason of posting this was because BM is going to be a much better option even with the possible nerfs because the other specs are garbage. While it may be harder to fix two other specs and make it comparable to the best spec/ other great classes (like FDKs, FMages, or Combat Rogues), it's necessary to keep this class or even this game competitive and interesting. FFS I'm not asking for much.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    The Hunter tears are amazing. Hunters are still going to be fine in PvE, you're a fool to think otherwise. Not having an interrupt hardly matters, all other DPS classes have one as do tanks, groups can easily bring a Hunter to any raid and not worry about it, even if you need to interrupt every 3 seconds, tank -> tank -> rogue -> mage -> shaman for example and there's your rotation, leaves 3 DPS and 2 healers out of the interrupt rotation. You're fine. Not having an interrupt hardly matters in PvE at all.



    You're right. It's because BM is absurdly strong in PvP right now because they have an ridiculous number of CC skills. Silence -> Scatter -> Trap -> Readiness -> Scatter -> Trap -> pet stun -> silence. Balanced amirite? rofl. They're nerfing BM Hunters for a reason, you said it yourself, because they're too strong, and that's what happens when a class is too strong. Easier to nerf 1 class down than to buff the other 10 up.
    everyone has an interrupt so you dont need one cause you are second class citizens! right. and it does matter in pve. rares and pets that require interrupts to stop heals or whatever. without them scatter and intimidation only stop the cast for a few seconds then they go right back to casting again.

    if you dont know how something will affect the class dont post the bs you are posting .
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  14. #14
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    The Hunter tears are amazing. Hunters are still going to be fine in PvE, you're a fool to think otherwise. Not having an interrupt hardly matters, all other DPS classes have one as do tanks, groups can easily bring a Hunter to any raid and not worry about it, even if you need to interrupt every 3 seconds, tank -> tank -> rogue -> mage -> shaman for example and there's your rotation, leaves 3 DPS and 2 healers out of the interrupt rotation. You're fine. Not having an interrupt hardly matters in PvE at all.



    You're right. It's because BM is absurdly strong in PvP right now because they have an ridiculous number of CC skills. Silence -> Scatter -> Trap -> Readiness -> Scatter -> Trap -> pet stun -> silence. Balanced amirite? rofl. They're nerfing BM Hunters for a reason, you said it yourself, because they're too strong, and that's what happens when a class is too strong. Easier to nerf 1 class down than to buff the other 10 up.
    It's easier to have a clue what you're doing and nerf the problems rather than make unnecessary changes every patch which cause more problems than they solve, these are the types of changes we get every patch.

    Played the ptr? 60k Arcane Shots tearing through people in BW, basically worse than now apart from Hunters don't have SS. They could avoid all this by separating PvE and PvP abilities, but that's "too complicated for the playerbase". Yeah right, worst excuse ever.

    Not to mention some people have no idea what to do against Hunters so it skews some of the complaints even more. No doubt Hunters are too strong, but when you see Warriors backpedaling and complaining they were killed because they couldn't get to the Hunter when they don't use Hamstring, Intervene their banner, or use any defensive cd's, it's pretty obvious Hunters aren't the only problem.
    Same with Mages that stand in the open and try cast Frostbolt at you. Hunters counter Mages, but a Mage with an idea can still do good damage to a Hunter through Frozen Orb and instants.

    So, to recap. Yes, Hunters are too strong, but most of the complaints like "Hunters take no damage and kill you in 1 second" are complete bull.

  15. #15
    Explosive Trap had its overall damage decreased by 30%. Proportionately, more damage has been removed from the initial damage than the periodic effect.
    .....

    I am just a silly pveer and I absolutely dont pvp but i seriously cant see why they need to nerf the traps they are pathetic as they are already. Guess its to much burst i guess.....

    Maybe I missed something? Where traps totally godly on the ptr or something?

    Snip - please don't post spam images

    edit- my apologies I wasn't aware we are not allowed to post any gifs. -_-
    Last edited by Malackai; 2013-07-02 at 05:45 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Malackai View Post
    .....
    I am just a silly pveer and I absolutely dont pvp but i seriously cant see why they need to nerf the traps they are pathetic as they are already. Guess its to much burst i guess.....

    Maybe I missed something? Where traps totally godly on the ptr or something?
    It's probably because the trap and black arrow don't share a cooldown anymore. So they nerf the dmg of the trap so hunters don't use them in single target rotation or something.

    Oh, Aoe-Dmg gets nerfed, too? No problem, hunters are used to getting nerfed.

  17. #17
    I'm not sure why Explosive Trap received a flat nerf - it should do X more damage per target up to X number of targets to keep it strong as an AoE tool but weak as a single target tool. I know they don't want Surv hunters tossing it in in addition to Blk Arrow, but I think they did it wrong.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Malackai View Post
    .....


    I am just a silly pveer and I absolutely dont pvp but i seriously cant see why they need to nerf the traps they are pathetic as they are already. Guess its to much burst i guess.....

    Maybe I missed something? Where traps totally godly on the ptr or something?
    The Gif just made my day, thank you - after yet another kick in the teeth.

    I'm not entirely sure who annoyed the devs so much that we are seeing so much pain and suffering right now, but I will wait and hope that PTR notes will bring some sort of buff ... eventually... I'm just feeling a little hopeless right now. Been playing my hunter since 2006, not sure how to feel...

    Lets wait, on one hand they did say that they will be making big changes before they equalise damage numbers... on the other - they also said that they feel the changes didn't warrant for any major buffs or compensation...

    ergh.

  19. #19
    I wouldn't just wait, squeaky wheel and all that jazz.

    So now that BA and Ex trap do not share a cooldown, can the cooldown be removed from BA? Not for multi dotting (although that would be fine with me) but just to allow you to use in on short lived trash to proc LnL.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by zenyatta View Post
    OR! They can do that thing where spells work differently in PvE and PvP! No other game has ever been able to-- oh, almost all games have? Well WoW is awfully behind the times then.
    Or others are caving in too easily ?
    Being different, being a minority with a decision is not always a bad thing, not always "behind the times".

    Having to in effect learn two games sucks, and while I can understand the desire from a "balance" perspective that does not make it some miracle pill, some easy fix.

    Ultimately the PvP or PvE will not be balanced due to the sheer number of options.
    The most balanced games are those which despite appearances to the contrary offer way less variety.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2013-07-02 at 02:42 AM.

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