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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    Or others are caving in too easily ?
    Being different, being a minority with a decision is not always a bad thing, not always "behind the times".

    Having to in effect learn two games sucks, and while I can understand the desire from a "balance" perspective that does not make it some miracle pill, some easy fix.

    Ultimately the PvP or PvE will not be balanced due to the sheer number of options.
    The most balanced games are those which despite appearances to the contrary offer way less variety.
    None of what you say makes a good counterargument to simply separating PVE and PVP. All they need to do is launch a patch with both things using the PVE rules. If something causes an issue in PVP, change the rule in instanced PVP. Done and you don't affect PVE so you don't need to worry about rebalancing that.

  2. #22
    I have a Hunter and I'm more than happy not to have traps in my single target rotation thank you very much. I have enough of that kind of shit with RoF on my lock...

    Also glad to see Readiness going defensive, just one less button to worry about in BM's ridiculously bloated set of CDs. I just hope they go further, remove Rapid Fire like they were talking about, trim a few more buttons, make some active talents passive... my Hunter's bars are so absurdly overloaded with buttons compared to every other class I play.

    And quit QQing, when they remove a DPS-impacting ability like Readiness they buff your damage elsewhere to compensate. Damage balancing is the last thing they do on the PTR, after they're sure about all the ability changes. So they haven't gotten to that part yet. They SAID AS MUCH in blue posts. Sheesh.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by zenyatta View Post
    I'm not sure why Explosive Trap received a flat nerf - it should do X more damage per target up to X number of targets to keep it strong as an AoE tool but weak as a single target tool. I know they don't want Surv hunters tossing it in in addition to Blk Arrow, but I think they did it wrong.
    Currently on live an explosive trap was hitting for about as much as an arcane shot was as BM. As SV on the PTR it was hitting for just about as much as the buffed arcane shot.

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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Played the ptr? 60k Arcane Shots tearing through people in BW, basically worse than now apart from Hunters don't have SS. They could avoid all this by separating PvE and PvP abilities, but that's "too complicated for the playerbase". Yeah right, worst excuse ever.
    It makes perfect sense, if they made separate rules for PVE and PVP every time someone objected to a change (ie always) we would literally be playing two completely different games by now.

    And this is a change that should be the same PVE vs. PVP anyway.
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    I have a Hunter and I'm more than happy not to have traps in my single target rotation thank you very much. I have enough of that kind of shit with RoF on my lock...

    Also glad to see Readiness going defensive, just one less button to worry about in BM's ridiculously bloated set of CDs. I just hope they go further, remove Rapid Fire like they were talking about, trim a few more buttons, make some active talents passive... my Hunter's bars are so absurdly overloaded with buttons compared to every other class I play.

    And quit QQing, when they remove a DPS-impacting ability like Readiness they buff your damage elsewhere to compensate. Damage balancing is the last thing they do on the PTR, after they're sure about all the ability changes. So they haven't gotten to that part yet. They SAID AS MUCH in blue posts. Sheesh.
    Then where is said buff(s)? So far all I see are Explo Trap nerfs. At least now I won't feel obligated to use them in AoE pulls either.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by zenyatta View Post
    Then where is said buff(s)? So far all I see are Explo Trap nerfs. At least now I won't feel obligated to use them in AoE pulls either.
    They haven't added the compensation in yet.

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  7. #27
    Why dont they just change the Explosive Trap glyph so that it doesn't share cool down with black arrow? That way it doesnt affect pve and in pvp you can actually knock stuff back and still have a chance to proc lock and loads with black arrow...

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjeff View Post
    Why dont they just change the Explosive Trap glyph so that it doesn't share cool down with black arrow? That way it doesnt affect pve and in pvp you can actually knock stuff back and still have a chance to proc lock and loads with black arrow...
    Because then hunters will be OP in PvP again and get nerfed.

  9. #29
    PVE hunters will be fine. They are the only class in the game that is capable of bringing every single buff and debuff in the entire game. ANYTHING your raid comp lacks, a hunter can bring. That is one very strong thing going for them. Another is the fact they are capable of doing their entire full DPS rotation while running around at full speed the entire time. No other class can do that. Warlocks can right now, at reduced run speed which screws them over in several fights, and in 5.4 it'll only be their spammy ability they can cast on the move.

    Speaking strictly from a PVE perspective, hunters dont "need" an interrupt. There are very few things you need to interrupt in any of these current raids. The most interrupts you need in all of MOP content is the trash before dark animus and even then you only need 6 interrupts to be 100% covered, and you can survive it with only 3. There is no need for every single class in the game to have an interrupt.

    You're getting nerfed because of PVP (big shocker there, pvpers are whiners) but it isn't the end of the world for PVE. You'll be fine.
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Dasani View Post
    PVE hunters will be fine. They are the only class in the game that is capable of bringing every single buff and debuff in the entire game.
    This only matters in 10's. Even then, it usually doesn't matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dasani View Post
    Another is the fact they are capable of doing their entire full DPS rotation while running around at full speed the entire time. No other class can do that. Warlocks can right now, at reduced run speed which screws them over in several fights, and in 5.4 it'll only be their spammy ability they can cast on the move.
    Except that DPS during moderate movement isn't a problem for any other class outside of Shadow priests. Thus "full speed movement" isn't actually required and hasn't been required in T14 or T15.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dasani View Post
    Speaking strictly from a PVE perspective, hunters dont "need" an interrupt. There are very few things you need to interrupt in any of these current raids. The most interrupts you need in all of MOP content is the trash before dark animus and even then you only need 6 interrupts to be 100% covered, and you can survive it with only 3. There is no need for every single class in the game to have an interrupt.
    So every single class except one is ok?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dasani View Post
    You're getting nerfed because of PVP (big shocker there, pvpers are whiners) but it isn't the end of the world for PVE. You'll be fine.
    You don't play a hunter do you...

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    It makes perfect sense, if they made separate rules for PVE and PVP every time someone objected to a change (ie always) we would literally be playing two completely different games by now.

    And this is a change that should be the same PVE vs. PVP anyway.
    Just because they separate abilities in PvE and PvP it doesn't mean that every single ability has to be changed, it's there for the abilities that are harder to balance and it's there if it's needed. Not separating them is what's holding PvP back with terrible balance, it always has but it's been a lot less noticeable in the past since the balance has never been this bad.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by zenyatta View Post
    OR! They can do that thing where spells work differently in PvE and PvP! No other game has ever been able to-- oh, almost all games have? Well WoW is awfully behind the times then.
    Yeah, that thing that Guild Wars 1 has been doing for the past 7 years? :P
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by NoGoal View Post
    For some it does. I can't play a class that doesn't have an interrupt and I wouldn't have picked Hunter as my main in MoP if it didn't have one. For some odd reason, UI can't show you (un-)interruptible casts if you don't have an interrupt and so many players are just bad or lazy with interrupts in PvE that I'd go crazy without one.
    You can show un-interruptable casts, I thought it did it by default, not sure though. It's a regular cast bar with a silver lining around it, to show it can't be interrupted. If a Priest uses Inner Focus the cast bar changes for 5 seconds, it's pretty noticeable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bafooga View Post
    DR's make using readiness as a tool for a CC chain a pretty bad idea, if a hunter uses readiness to simply re-trap or re-silence a target immediately after affecting them with it then they are a fool.
    Not really. If you and your partner are bursting someone you can pop BW -> Silence -> Scatter -> Trap -> Readiness -> Silence -> BW -> Scatter -> Trap, like 20 seconds of CC with your biggest CD popped, plus your partners damage. Don't see how you can say that's a bad idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xecks View Post
    everyone has an interrupt so you dont need one cause you are second class citizens! right. and it does matter in pve. rares and pets that require interrupts to stop heals or whatever. without them scatter and intimidation only stop the cast for a few seconds then they go right back to casting again.

    if you dont know how something will affect the class dont post the bs you are posting .
    I don't really understand what you're talking about here, in a group setting someone else will have an interrupt, and I can't think of a single solo situation in which you need an interrupt to accomplish something. Not too sure, perhaps there are some, I haven't come across any though.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Dasani View Post
    PVE hunters will be fine. They are the only class in the game that is capable of bringing every single buff and debuff in the entire game. ANYTHING your raid comp lacks, a hunter can bring. That is one very strong thing going for them. Another is the fact they are capable of doing their entire full DPS rotation while running around at full speed the entire time. No other class can do that. Warlocks can right now, at reduced run speed which screws them over in several fights, and in 5.4 it'll only be their spammy ability they can cast on the move.

    Speaking strictly from a PVE perspective, hunters dont "need" an interrupt. There are very few things you need to interrupt in any of these current raids. The most interrupts you need in all of MOP content is the trash before dark animus and even then you only need 6 interrupts to be 100% covered, and you can survive it with only 3. There is no need for every single class in the game to have an interrupt.

    You're getting nerfed because of PVP (big shocker there, pvpers are whiners) but it isn't the end of the world for PVE. You'll be fine.
    I am gonna have a hard time killing some of these rare's now that I can't interrupt them anymore, well Guess what, Hunter the class famous for it's soloing ability can't solo all rares anymore.

    It's so sad that my fistweaver monk with 70 -ilvl's less has it easier to solo these rares now.

    ---------- Post added 2013-07-02 at 12:00 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    I don't really understand what you're talking about here, in a group setting someone else will have an interrupt, and I can't think of a single solo situation in which you need an interrupt to accomplish something. Not too sure, perhaps there are some, I haven't come across any though.
    You haven't killed a lots of rares did you ? pretty much all solo rares have something that you have to interrupt, a heal or a dmg ability that will pretty much one shot you if not interrupted.

    Well guess what, not having an interrupt does matter, if it doesn't why not remove them all ? or let's say half the classes lose their interrupt, someone else will do it anyway...

    ---------- Post added 2013-07-02 at 12:04 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    Not really. If you and your partner are bursting someone you can pop BW -> Silence -> Scatter -> Trap -> Readiness -> Silence -> BW -> Scatter -> Trap, like 20 seconds of CC with your biggest CD popped, plus your partners damage. Don't see how you can say that's a bad idea.
    If everything goes perfectly vs a decent player this will be max 9 sec of cc, not considering traps can still miss or if you are playing with a priest he will just lifegrip you away from it.

    Pretty much all classes can cc this long if not longer. Just because you don't know how to break a CC chain doesn't make it OP.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    I don't really understand what you're talking about here, in a group setting someone else will have an interrupt, and I can't think of a single solo situation in which you need an interrupt to accomplish something. Not too sure, perhaps there are some, I haven't come across any though.
    Epicus Maximus (I guess you can Deterrence it)
    Last rank 9 fight (or the dude heals to 100%)
    Probably a few other Brawler's guild fights, just the ones I completed most recently.

    From what I've read there are a lot of rare mobs/rare tame challenges that require an interrupt, not 100% sure on that. Granted, most rares are probably stunable, or susceptible to disorients or something (Intimidation/Scatter).
    Last edited by Jeremypwnz; 2013-07-02 at 12:49 PM.
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremypwnz View Post
    Granted, most rares are probably stunable, or susceptible to disorients or something (Intimidation/Scatter).
    While this is true, a stun or disorient does not have the same effect as a proper interrupt. The interrupt will make the target (rare) not cast that spell again for x seconds (usually quite long). If you stun it however, it will most likely start casting the spell straight away after the stun has worn off.

    A possible removal of Silencing Shot is the biggest issue I have with 5.4 when it comes to hunters. They can throw Readiness out the window, but don't take my f-ing interrupt!

  17. #37
    Well not having interrupt in open world can sux.

    Whenever I run Blood in the snow scenario, I always have to interrupt the boss cause others are slacking. It may be the way to make people play MM. You wanna do Brawlers? Go MM.

  18. #38
    Wouldn't the SS fix be like, super easy? Make it a glyph that replaces Scatter Shot's effect with the current Silencing Shot effect, and when glyphed give it a 40 yard range.

    I realize that having both is better, but that seems like an okay compromise.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by khalamo View Post
    Well not having interrupt in open world can sux.

    Whenever I run Blood in the snow scenario, I always have to interrupt the boss cause others are slacking. It may be the way to make people play MM. You wanna do Brawlers? Go MM.
    thats bad game design and we shouldn't stand for it

  20. #40
    Forcing us to MM for PvP may make our burst capabilities weaker, but now we have even more cc. Welcome back to Silencing Shot + Intimidation. I love MM much more than BM anyway so I'm happy with it.

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