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  1. #1

    Undercutting and relisting

    How many times do you relist in an hour?

    Undercutting is fine with me.

    Undercutting by 1c is fine as it has never annoyed me. I tend to undercut by more as a %, but 1c people never bothered me.

    Doesnt everyone find the undercutting war of attrition a bit boring though?

  2. #2
    How many times do you relist in an hour? Camping the market has never really been an extremely viable method. Also, undercutting by 1c is typically best, it doesn't decrease the market value as much as say undercutting by 5-10g (say on a 200g gem, or 100g glyph)

  3. #3
    Herald of the Titans serenka's Avatar
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    i get a bit annoyed when you list something for say 100g, a few silver/gold cheaper than the others listed, and then some guy lists the same item for like 20g, then someone else does 15, then 10. that annoys me.
    dragonmaw - EU

  4. #4
    I am Murloc! Baracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by serenka View Post
    i get a bit annoyed when you list something for say 100g, a few silver/gold cheaper than the others listed, and then some guy lists the same item for like 20g, then someone else does 15, then 10. that annoys me.
    Someone who likes playing the AH would take advantage of that but I don't and when I just want to sell my stuff for a fair price and people undercut it into nothing it's really annoying.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by serenka View Post
    i get a bit annoyed when you list something for say 100g, a few silver/gold cheaper than the others listed, and then some guy lists the same item for like 20g, then someone else does 15, then 10. that annoys me.
    If it's worth 100g, just buy it out at 10 and resale for 100. Why would that annoy you? Oh...it's value is really 10g and you can't gouge the market? My heart bleeds

    Meanwhile, I'm 10g richer!
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  6. #6
    I used to engage in this "war of attrition" when glyphs were introduced, but only against one guy. He was the first to obtain all glyphs in the server, 52 of em I think was the total. Before him I didn't even know about that ongoing war. But I struggled to muster a couple of thousands of gold to buy 1 book. Was happy to make glyphs of that to sell, but the motherless Orc undercut me in a matter of seconds. Feeling strange, I cut him back, and he did cut me again. Then he whispered me telling me "don't bother," and that the AH is "his." I was enraged so I spent hours just undercutting that 1 glyph I learned, while he kept cutting me and selling the other 51 glyphs. Meh how I loathed him.

    Now I just list my stuff once and don't look back for 48 hours till they're in my mailbox. I really wish people would just buy the products of others they tend to like. Perhaps even only by name. Why buy from 'Lolnihao' when 'Libido' is 1 copper more expensive? The former is rude and racist, the latter isn't. Myself I really make an effort to be nice to people in my server, never over pricing in trade, being nice in Durator, large tips for everyone, free portals, and much advice, yet they wouldn't bother to scroll down for my product.
    I worry there's three of me, and each of us is blind.

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans serenka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindark View Post
    If it's worth 100g, just buy it out at 10 and resale for 100. Why would that annoy you? Oh...it's value is really 10g and you can't gouge the market? My heart bleeds

    Meanwhile, I'm 10g richer!

    more like because i list my items at a simmilar price to everyone elses on there, and don't check again for ages, come back and then theres 2 pages of the item at 10g.
    dragonmaw - EU

  8. #8
    Immortal Sigma's Avatar
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    twice, maybe three times a day on my JC Char
    My Banker (depending on what time of day and more importantly which day) I will re-list every 15 mins or so
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by torterra275 View Post
    How many times do you relist in an hour? Camping the market has never really been an extremely viable method. Also, undercutting by 1c is typically best, it doesn't decrease the market value as much as say undercutting by 5-10g (say on a 200g gem, or 100g glyph)
    In certain popular markets it is the only way if you want to compete in any of the traditional markets. I am talking about being undercut within 1 minute or less of listing. 5 minutes if its at ridiculous early hours like 3am. Because the competition is so fierce then im surprised some sellers sell anything at all.

    i get a bit annoyed when you list something for say 100g, a few silver/gold cheaper than the others listed, and then some guy lists the same item for like 20g, then someone else does 15, then 10. that annoys me.
    That is just the market though. They can try what they like and if they go too low you buy them up.

    One of the more interesting times is when a new patch hits and the addons dont work, which requires 100% manual listing. That way your information isnt as good and a lot of people cant be bothered to make any effort without their addons. the ah is then a lot more erratic. Its a pain but I find it more fun. Soon as addons come back online we are back to relisting hundreds of auctions again. I am not complaining about being undercut as that is just the market but the constant relisting is a bit dull imo.

  10. #10
    The only time I really actively sit there and chain undercuts has been around major patches, aside from that I don't play that game really. I don't find it's worth it in terms of profit to time spent personally (and to be fair work prevents me from doing that a lot of the time - my strategies are something that has very much developed around my irl time commitments). I've basically fixed the prices of glyphs on my server, the rest I tend to just do 1-2 posts a day and see what shakes out. I do have competitors added to my friends list and will hop over after I know they've just done a post when I'm on, but I don't sit around specifically waiting for them to do it.

    I could squeeze out more by always being on and undercutting I guess, but I'm relatively happy with my earnings, and my server economy has been awful this xpac, which makes the gains to time spent pretty bad for me. A much higher percentage of my income has come simply from flipping rarer items than has been normal for me in the past, and those don't tend to have a tonne of competition that requires constant relists (at least on my server).

    It'll be interesting to see how I have to change things to accommodate the patch changes. I'm too lazy to make a thread to discuss people's plans for that tonight though. Long day at irl work :<
    Last edited by Windfury; 2013-06-26 at 11:42 AM.
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    So don't wear skimpy clothes getting raped is not entirely out of your control either.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by 999tigger View Post
    Doesnt everyone find the undercutting war of attrition a bit boring though?
    You are engaging in a magical journey called "price discovery", how can you possibly find it boring

  12. #12
    When I am really up for it and have nothing else to do I can sit there for hours watching the AH for someone posting stuff for cheap. The annoying thing is, my realm is rather dead so not that many people to buy and sell too. Another annoying thing with my realm though is that no one seems to recognize the value of mats and post for stupid prices, now I don't make all that much gold and normally spend it on random shit, meaning that I can't buy it all out.

    However one time I decided people were being stupid with golden lotus, selling them for like 30g each, so I had enough to buy them all out, pushed golden lotus prices up to 90g and had my whole realm bitching about how high the GL cost...

  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire
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    The people that undercut by massive amounts need to be taken out back and beaten into submission. Especially the ones on my server that do it just to grief AH sellers and not to make gold.

    I don't get to mad about it though. I make 3-6k per day from glyphs and shoulder enchants and that's enough for me. Went from always having about 5k gold to just over 200k. I'm sure I could make more as I have every max level prof.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Windfury View Post
    The only time I really actively sit there and chain undercuts has been around major patches, aside from that I don't play that game really.
    This was my main tendency as well. I only sat at the AH to undercut when the turnover is big and I also need to restock often. There's been exceptions when I had come into a large supply of stock and was trying to get it on the market a.s.a.p, but mostly just re-list about 4-5 a day, when I got near the AH.

    Around big patches though all bets are off. I spent 4 days doing nothing but selling glyphs on the Mists mechanics patch in Cata. Totally worth it. After those 4 days though, I listed only my regular 2 times a day for glyphs till I was mostly out of stock, and then quit the glyph market all together again. Pick your spots to camp the market is my motto.
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  15. #15
    When a new patch hits you have the advantage that demand is also v high.

    I think the point i was making is that addons do so much of the work (in particular TSM) that most of the ah is just a posting war of attrition and boring. It was better when they didnt exist imo ofc that doesnt mean easier. I quite like the idea of charging higher fees (not cut) and then there would be more of a penalty for relisting.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Scinder View Post
    The people that undercut by massive amounts need to be taken out back and beaten into submission. Especially the ones on my server that do it just to grief AH sellers and not to make gold..
    To be fair though, in a lot of cases the current AH prices are way above what you would consider fair. I'm gold capped, just play the AH every now and again for some extra spending money, so I usually do sacrifice mega profit to give other players a fair price.

  17. #17
    usually every 15-30minutes, I run a second account with mostly bank/auction alts on it and can easily relist on a side monitor

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by 999tigger View Post
    When a new patch hits you have the advantage that demand is also v high.

    I think the point i was making is that addons do so much of the work (in particular TSM) that most of the ah is just a posting war of attrition and boring. It was better when they didnt exist imo ofc that doesnt mean easier. I quite like the idea of charging higher fees (not cut) and then there would be more of a penalty for relisting.
    While I'm not undercutting constantly I make up for it in having a lot up at once - 5k+ auctions at any one time generally. There's just no way to be able to post those up manually in any sort of reasonable time frame.

    I like the addons and use them a lot. Honestly I think the heavy use of addons is more of a reflection of the problematic design elements in the ah interface (and with associated things such as crafting e.g. milling and prospecting) more than anything else. There's definitely a lot of space for Blizzard to improve that, but I can see why they'd let it slide to do other things, and they're pretty clearly ok with people using addons to fill that gap.

    For people who undercut constantly it's almost it's own punishment. It's not long term sustainable, it's frustrating as hell, they burn out and give up, or just make what they need and then stop generally (I do use TUJ to track the listing patterns of people who seem to be doing it constantly though - I've found and gotten rid of quite a few listing bots that way - no real person lists 24 hours a day for a week etc).

    Unless the demand is high enough to justify it I honestly think the additional gain isn't really worth the time spent. So if that's how they chose to spend their time it's their prerogative. For me I'd earn more from running shopping list scans and pulling cheap items out to flip or craft with than I would just constantly relisting during low demand periods with the time I have available.

    Like pretty much everything else it's a matter or adjusting to your market in the most efficient possible way for yourself I think.
    Last edited by Windfury; 2013-06-26 at 11:57 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Davillage View Post
    So don't wear skimpy clothes getting raped is not entirely out of your control either.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Basemath View Post
    I used to engage in this "war of attrition" when glyphs were introduced, but only against one guy. He was the first to obtain all glyphs in the server, 52 of em I think was the total. Before him I didn't even know about that ongoing war. But I struggled to muster a couple of thousands of gold to buy 1 book. Was happy to make glyphs of that to sell, but the motherless Orc undercut me in a matter of seconds. Feeling strange, I cut him back, and he did cut me again. Then he whispered me telling me "don't bother," and that the AH is "his." I was enraged so I spent hours just undercutting that 1 glyph I learned, while he kept cutting me and selling the other 51 glyphs. Meh how I loathed him.

    Now I just list my stuff once and don't look back for 48 hours till they're in my mailbox. I really wish people would just buy the products of others they tend to like. Perhaps even only by name. Why buy from 'Lolnihao' when 'Libido' is 1 copper more expensive? The former is rude and racist, the latter isn't. Myself I really make an effort to be nice to people in my server, never over pricing in trade, being nice in Durator, large tips for everyone, free portals, and much advice, yet they wouldn't bother to scroll down for my product.
    Should've reported him, controlling the ah is bannable

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Scinder View Post
    The people that undercut by massive amounts need to be taken out back and beaten into submission. Especially the ones on my server that do it just to grief AH sellers and not to make gold.

    I don't get to mad about it though. I make 3-6k per day from glyphs and shoulder enchants and that's enough for me. Went from always having about 5k gold to just over 200k. I'm sure I could make more as I have every max level prof.

    I just buy those people out and re-list. Regarding glyphs, that's the market I decided to withdraw from few weeks ago. Undercutting was on per-minute basis and I don't have enough time any more to keep up with it.

    What brightened my day a few days ago was checking the AH in the morning before work and finding out some guy (bless his soul xD) posted 340 stacks of Windwool at 12g/stack. Sufficed to say I'm very well stocked on my windwool now :P. I guess Mistfall daily was up and uncontested xD

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