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  1. #1

    Question Heroic Horridon Need Help!

    Hello;

    We have wiped about 45 times on this boss and we only saw 5th phase 3-4 times and lots of ppl were dead on those tries.Our best try is %40.
    Sometimes we have problem with our raid setup, but i always got 1 melee in combat.But i think i'll replace him with a ranged dps.
    And we will try with 6 ranged dps.Maybe it can cause some interrupt problem i really dont know.
    On 1st and 2nd phase we dont have serios problems its managable, on phase 3 we have problems with managing the adds, like tank is having problem with takings adds, we are trying to stack on healers and we are using offensive cooldowns on that phase, as a raid leader im telling to every1 attack effusions immediately and same to the dinomancer. Actually i didnt get whats wrong with the raid, but we cant manage it. Sometimes we manage it perfectly but i couldnt understand why we can manage sometimes or why we cant manage... I need some tricks maybe its all about with our setup i really cant figure it out...I think we do need a DK tank for 3rd phase it can help with army of dead... If we take BL on 3rd phase there wont be a problem but still have problems with 4th gate.
    On 4th phase we have serios problems with keeping ppl alive with 2 healers. Our Guardian tank is taking lots of damage while tanking bears at the same time, so i told our paladin tank to get one of the war bears, but still have problems with keeping him alive.. Also one of the problem is Flame casters... Ppl are taking they down but i think its not enough. I'm marking the target with the skull like one war bear,after that one shaman , one war bear ,after that one shaman... But i think i have to assing something like mages or hunters will only attack to the flame casters when they arive or while they are alive.
    R.druid is taking cleanse with symbosis and he is making the dispels as far as he can do.. also priest too.
    In a good try druid is dispelling like 25-30 times priest 15-20 times and prot pala 5-7 times. And mages 2-3 times.
    Should i assing everything to every1? I can do that but at this time im worrying about the dpsing the warbears down.


    here is our composition

    tanks: paladin , druid-guardian
    paladin is tanking only the boss.

    Healers;
    Priest,Druid

    Dps
    2 mages, 1 hunter , 1 spriest ,1 warlock ,1 melee dps(rogue or retri pala)
    Retri pala helped dispel alot but he is not able to come in 2 weeks.
    So...

    Yesterday i've tried with 6 ranged dps
    With 1 ele shaman, ele shamans gear is good, but he was below the tank But i have assign him to take orb of control, maybe thats why his dps was too low.
    Melee dps was taking those orbs, If i replace em would that be a problem? Cause melee cant dps effective at 3rd or 4th phase. And i want those adds down quick as possible..

    Summary... I didnt understand why we wipe, Maybe its about healing or dispelling but im sure our healers are doing everything they can and im sure they are playing good.. Am i missing something or doing something wrong? Or should i skip him maybe i can come with better gear...
    But im sure gear is enough too..



    Tonite i think to try with 6 ranged dps.

    Thanks for the answers and for the help.
    Last edited by alihandiro; 2013-07-02 at 06:40 AM.

  2. #2
    There isn't much help anyone can provide without any Logs i'm afraid, i wanted to see how your pally tank was doing as that's the class i play, sadly i can't.

    However you said your druid and priest have a total of 45+ dispels (together), this is worrying. Do you mean they're dispelling poison from 2nd gate? If so that's an issue. As a pally tank i do basically top 1-3 of the damage on Hc horridon. Tell your pally to spec for Holy Prism to help healers, call out dire calls "Dire call in 5" or so, and have him holy prism after every dire call, massive raid healing help, full lifes the raid instantly. Other than that... If poisons do get out, have him dispel people while tanking boss.

    Dps should always focus dinomancers asap until hes transforms then go back to whatever is more threatening (priests for example). For the 2nd gate assign interupters, first one can be nuked down, but then have one person take the priest near front of boss, and one behind (depending if you position boss so the side is facing raid, but you should get the idea hopefully)

    Get some logs and i can provide actual help, but for now that's all i can really suggest... Analysis Recount/Skada if you can't log, see if people are taking damage from avoidable damage such as Traps, Pools, Double swipe !.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by TwentyTwelve View Post
    There isn't much help anyone can provide without any Logs i'm afraid, i wanted to see how your pally tank was doing as that's the class i play, sadly i can't.

    However you said your druid and priest have a total of 45+ dispels (together), this is worrying. Do you mean they're dispelling poison from 2nd gate? If so that's an issue. As a pally tank i do basically top 1-3 of the damage on Hc horridon. Tell your pally to spec for Holy Prism to help healers, call out dire calls "Dire call in 5" or so, and have him holy prism after every dire call, massive raid healing help, full lifes the raid instantly. Other than that... If poisons do get out, have him dispel people while tanking boss.

    Dps should always focus dinomancers asap until hes transforms then go back to whatever is more threatening (priests for example). For the 2nd gate assign interupters, first one can be nuked down, but then have one person take the priest near front of boss, and one behind (depending if you position boss so the side is facing raid, but you should get the idea hopefully)

    Get some logs and i can provide actual help, but for now that's all i can really suggest... Analysis Recount/Skada if you can't log, see if people are taking damage from avoidable damage such as Traps, Pools, Double swipe !.
    I'll get logs today.. thank you for your suggestions, ill speak with my prot pally about that.
    And if we dps dino until he transforms, dont we have to finish him to get orb of control asap?
    They are dispelling Poison cause priests are casting.. i've assing interrupts but its not able to always interrupt for sure. But in hc they have to interrupt you are right.

  4. #4
    We managed this boss in roughly 35 wipes, it is pretty challenging for sure. I'll try to give my 2c.
    Generally you always want to kill the first balcony add before the 2nd set spawn, although that's not too hard. Melee dps are not too terrible for this fight - we took 2 and had no troubles whatsoever.

    Third door:
    The small adds that apply the poison should take priority over the frozen warlords, they have very little health and are easy to burn down. With this in mind the healers have to be aware of the mortal strike, it hits like a truck and the tank needs to pop cd's. Try to tank the boss further back from the door to give extra room to kite the frozen orbs, you should never kite the orbs in front of the next door. For healers: do not dispel 1 - 2 stacks of the disease, always wait until 4 or 5. You should never have to pop hero on this door. You say the retri pally was dispelling, what about the prot pally? A simple mouseover macro should do the trick.

    Fourth door:
    The fourth door is truly brutal, the debuff trucks and few healers can dispel it. Always designate 1 - 2 dpsers to 100% focus on the flamecasters and INTERRUPT, the fireball hits for 200k and can easily kill someone with dire call and whatnot. Have the pally tanking horridon pick up one of the 2 bears that spawn in unison, they don't do much damage at all and certainly take the pressure off. If the debuff goes onto the tank he will get steamtrained, it is imperative that he gets dispelled ASAP. We popped hero on this door just to get through it and onto the last phase.

    Last phase:
    Everyone needs to nuke the shit out of war god when he spawns, there will be one beastial cry + dire call that line up everyone must use personals to survive this (rallying cry + demo banner works a treat if you have a warrior). Horridon hits extremely extremely hard during his enrage, tanks will need to roll cd's + externals as much as they can. Holy Avenger is amazing for this - 30s of straight 45% dmg reduction. Armor pots are really useful as well. Boss should be at around 70% going into this phase, everyone burn burn burn the boss while managing their pink dinos and you have yourself a kill.

    Other than that just make sure that no one dies to stupid things like standing in shit or doesn't move for the charge, etc. Sometimes people get bad rng and die but that happens.

    Don't worry about the DPS, the dps requirement is not high by any means. Ele shamans are really good for this fight (chain lightning spam anyone), though if he was below the tank tanking the adds then that's a bit off.

  5. #5
    The need for interrupts are why you bring a melee to this fight.

    The dinomancers drop the orb when they reach 50% and transform. There's an acheesement for keeping dinomancers alive until the end of the fight. They do hit reasonably hard in dino form so most people kill them, however when they turn into a dino their priority drops way down on the list since all they have left is that melee attack. If you have a mancer in dino form and, for example, a venom priest alive, the venom priest will hurt you much more.

  6. #6
    First and foremost you ideally shouldn't have to dispel anything on second door. Asign interrupts on priests that are going to interrupt 100%. Interupters don't switch to effusions, everyone else does. Tanks try to get adds towards third door slowly. Healer ofc stand in such way to not be left behind or to get add agro with no tank around. At this point I would almost say get two mellee, rather then drop two mellee.
    For third door our dk tried using army, but since he didn't had glyph we found taunts of army to be worse then the help we get from more targets so we aren't using it anymore. Again, tank tanks warlords. melee focuses on them, ranged can either help or kill little adds depending on what you prefer. For us melee take care of big adds while ranged keep little ones intact. We also move to fourth door slowly.
    On fourth door tank focuses mainly on getting bears as those are what kill people, if he needs to let casters and protectors run around so be it but since healer are behind the tank the protectors kinda come to them themselves. Also don't go nuts with bears. For us we usually orb horidon before we even start killing second bears.
    As for dispelling, we have priest and shaman with boomie and ret and its more then enough.
    Not sure what you are having problems with so cant help any more.

  7. #7
    The Orb drops at 50% when he changes to his dinoform. After this he is the target with the least priority because he does nothing.
    Try pulling 3min cooldowns for the venom priests to make sure they die before they can cast their adds. This way you need 4 interrupts at this door (3 veno priests + dinomancer), assign them. Have a dd always mark the target to nuke. Don't aoe too much, there is time to dps horridon while you transition. Even the shittiest add has a higher priority than horridon make sure your raiders realize this. On the 4th gate we have myself (assa rogue) to deal with the flame casters maybe you should try that too.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by alihandiro View Post
    Yesterday i've tried with 6 ranged dps
    With 1 ele shaman, ele shamans gear is good, but he was below the tank and i think its not acceptable.
    But i have assign him to take orb of control, maybe thats why his dps was too low, Melee dps was taking those orbs,
    If i replace him would that be a problem? Cause melee cant dps effective at 3rd or 4th phase. And i want those adds down quick as possible..
    how low is low? tank dps is really high in this fight especially when the paladin is solo tanking horridon. elemental shamans with chain lightning and guidance for every 2nd dire call are so powerful here.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by alihandiro View Post
    Sometimes we have problem with our raid setup, but i always got 1 melee in combat.But i think i'll replace him with a ranged dps.
    And we will try with 6 ranged dps.Maybe it can cause some interrupt problem i really dont know.
    We did our first kill with 3 melees, so it should be easier with one. Interrupts are not much of a problem, even 2 stacks of poison bolt can be easily healed (there's not much damage going out on door 2 anyway).

    on phase 3 we have problems with managing the adds, like tank is having problem with takings adds,
    The little ones (those throwing out the diseases) can't be tanked. If you have trouble managing the diseases, try change your priority to: Dino to 50%> 1st frozen > small > 2 frozen > rest (though you may want one of the two frozen dead before the dire call). That's what we had to do on our 2nd horridon kill, as we had but one to dispell diseases (and no army). Also, you can stun the small adds.


    Actually i didnt get whats wrong with the raid, but we cant manage it. Sometimes we manage it perfectly but i couldnt understand why we can manage sometimes or why we cant manage...
    Logs would realy help here.

    I need some tricks maybe its all about with our setup i really cant figure it out...I think we do need a DK tank for 3rd phase it can help with army of dead... If we take BL on 3rd phase there wont be a problem but still have problems with 4th gate.
    Save bloodlust to zerg Jalak. It really makes things a lot easier in the final phase.

    On 4th phase we have serios problems with keeping ppl alive with 2 healers. Our Guardian tank is taking lots of damage while tanking bears at the same time, so i told our paladin tank to get one of the war bears, but still have problems with keeping him alive..
    Yep. Splitting those to bear is exactly what you should do. Though, honestly, either your healer or your guardian must do something horrible wrong, if you cannot keep him alive on one warbears (the first one should be dead already). Maybe he's taking to long to move them out of the totems or nukes himself with the curse?

    Also one of the problem is Flame casters... Ppl are taking they down but i think its not enough. I'm marking the target with the skull like one war bear,after that one shaman , one war bear ,after that one shaman... But i think i have to assing something like mages or hunters will only attack to the flame casters when they arive or while they are alive.
    There really should be 1 or two ranged assigned to the flamecasters. They're doing a lot of damage (ele can interrupt them frequenlty, so you can move them out of the totems)

    R.druid is taking cleanse with symbosis and he is making the dispels as far as he can do.. also priest too.
    In a good try druid is dispelling like 25-30 times priest 15-20 times and prot pala 5-7 times. And mages 2-3 times.
    Should i assing everything to every1? I can do that but at this time im worrying about the dpsing the warbears down.
    Everyone should dispell. What you may do wrong is, that you're dispelling those with 1-2 stacks, while some people still run with 5+ stacks.

    Yesterday i've tried with 6 ranged dps
    With 1 ele shaman, ele shamans gear is good, but he was below the tank and i think its not acceptable.
    But i have assign him to take orb of control, maybe thats why his dps was too low, Melee dps was taking those orbs,
    Ugh, if everyone else focuses, all your ele shaman has to do is: positiong himself correctly so that his dire-call adds runs through the get mobs, then spam chain lightning (lavabeam on door 3 is quite nice to kill of small adds, add in AG for the dire call). There's no way he can be below a tank, even when picking up orbs, unless he's severely undergeared.

    If i replace him would that be a problem? Cause melee cant dps effective at 3rd or 4th phase. And i want those adds down quick as possible..
    If your melees have problem to dps at 3rd and 4th door, I fear your problem is with your tank. He's just not moving the mobs out of ground effects fast enough/far enough. If you're running 1-2 melees, they shouldn't get their dino add till the last gate, so all they have to do is do small steps while continuing their rotation.

    Summary... I didnt understand why we wipe, Maybe its about healing or dispelling but im sure our healers are doing everything they can and im sure they are playing good.. Am i missing something or doing something wrong? Or should i skip him maybe i can come with better gear...
    But im sure gear is enough too..
    If you didn't understand, you really need to provide logs. It's hard to pinpoint the problems otherwise.

    My best guess for door 4 is: Your dd's probably nuke themself instead of waiting for a decurse to happen.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninotchka View Post
    The need for interrupts are why you bring a melee to this fight.

    The dinomancers drop the orb when they reach 50% and transform. There's an acheesement for keeping dinomancers alive until the end of the fight. They do hit reasonably hard in dino form so most people kill them, however when they turn into a dino their priority drops way down on the list since all they have left is that melee attack. If you have a mancer in dino form and, for example, a venom priest alive, the venom priest will hurt you much more.

    I'll keep that in mind mate thank you for the tip.

  11. #11
    After 5-6 tries, We have no problem to bring horridon last phase anymore thanks for the tips.

    We tried with 3 healers and we dont have any heal,dps or tanking problem with gates.
    I bring 2 Melee dps, and dont have any problem with interrupts, flame casters etc etc.

    We are poping up BL when Jalak arrives, and its easy to bring him down.
    We are disarming him ofc.
    Problems are starting after Jalak dies,
    Should we spread or stack? shall melee come run away from Horridon when he casts "Dire Call"?
    I need some advises about that, our best try was %35 and one of the tanks was after jalak dies.

  12. #12
    Stack on the side of Horridon (should be around middle of the room), move to his face when he charges, Dire Call is only once per minute so everyone can pop personals.

  13. #13
    Try getting 3rd door without hero, if u say most ur prob is on 4rd door then hero on that one. That helped us a bit.
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2013-07-12 at 12:42 PM.

  14. #14
    We use lust on third door & personal dps CDs on the fourth.

    3rd door:
    - Kill the 1st frozen warlord before the other two come up. Three warlords on the tank is a bad idea, two should be manageable
    - After the first frozen warlord goes down, prio killing the little adds over the warlords & make sure dinomancer is burned to 50% & door is shut asap
    - As mentioned elsewhere, finishing off dinomancer is low priority
    - People with adds on them should be going to the frozen warlord tank so that you can cleave/aoe easily

    4th door:
    - We sit a melee with decent interrupts on the flame casters & he basically solos them (we use either a dk or a warrior). Their fireball is painful, I'd always bring along at least one melee simply to lock down the caster on that door.
    - Kill one bear at a time, don't have multiple beast shaman up
    - Decursing is extremely important. Can't afford to have DPS being forced to back off
    - Having a bear on the horridon tank is doable, but definitely ups their spike damage. I'm not sure I'd be keen on it with a 2 heal strat

    Oh, and the dinomancers hit like fairy floss btw. It's entirely possible for a non-tank to tank them. The little melee guys (guardians?) on the last door aren't as soft but aren't particularly dangerous either.

    It is possible to two heal it, but having non-healers who can help with decursing is a major bonus. Your healers need to be fairly pro. I much prefer three healing, but that's going to depend whether your heals or your dps are stronger really.

    My guild runs two raids, one team does it with 2 healers & weaker dps while my team does it with 3 heals & stronger dps. Both teams use 2 melee, my higher higher dps team sometimes uses 3 melee.
    Last edited by lakhesis; 2013-07-12 at 12:56 PM.

  15. #15
    Is your paladin sticking on Horridon the whole fight? With proper use of his active mitigation and Bubble/BoP, he shouldn't have a problem tanking him the entire fight. He'll also get a boatload of Vengeance allowing him to help whittle down Horridon for that final phase.

    If possible, as soon as Jalak starts getting low (or even before he lands), tell your paladin to clear all his stacks. He'll be able to tank Horridon even after Jalak is down leaving your Guardian as back up. Make sure he has all his defensive CDs up for this part because Horridon will hit HARD. As soon as he's burned through his CDs, make sure the healers roll their defensives on him so that he can stay alive as long as possible. If (and when) he dies, repeat with your Guardian until boss is dead. If both tanks die and Horridon is low (~10%), you can get someone to taunt Horridon and run away as fast as they can. Since you seem to have a ranged-heavy comp, you might be able to burn him down before the boss one shots everyone. It'll be messy, but a kill is a kill!

    IIRC, it helps to have everyone stacked up for AoE heals. Just make sure people don't stand in Double Swipes.

    Also - tell your prot paladin to help with decursing. It'll save the healers mana.

  16. #16
    Our group saves lust for the transition between 4th door and War-God.

    On the 3rd door we have our two melee stay at the door to keep the door adds at a manageable level. Any two people with stuns and slows could do this but it's easier for our melee to do it because they don't need to worry about ice orbs from the warlords. The ranged kill whatever small adds they can until the first warlord appears, then they switch to that. From there they DPS whatever they reach as the tank is moving away from the door until the dinomancer appears. When the dinomancer appears the two melee lock portal ahead of the tank, the hunter hits stampeded and the DPS DK pops his army to help spread diseases and clean up the adds after triggering the orb. One tip for cleansing is that whoever is cleansing should look for people with high stacks (6 should be cleansed regardless) or those not taking new stacks from being currently attacked to cleanse so they make more efficient use of their cleanse cooldown.

    The 4th door we have melee assigned to control flame casters. All ranged focus the first bear and shaman. If a DPS gets cursed they need to slow or stop their DPS until they get decursed and your mages NEED to be on top of that. We split the second set of bears, one on the add tank and the other on the Horridon tank primarily do that we don't end up dropping two shaman at once because of splash damage on the bears. Those bears are held and the small adds are controlled until the dinomancer drops. After the dinomanacer is 50% we clean up any left over flame casters, finish off the health left from the bear on the current add tank, the current Horridon tank takes the shaman that drops, and the then previous add tank switches over to Horridon. From there it's burn the Shaman, 3rd bear, 3rd shaman, and clean up any protectors that weren't killed by cleaves and splash. During that burn we have the raid also positioning their pink dinos to be able to stack up for healing on the 5th phase and then lust.

    The lust leads us into the War-god phase where we kill war-god just after his 3rd cry. The raid uses personal survival CDs and healthstones to stabilize the 3rd bestial cry and subsequent Dire Call. That provides enough time for the previous tank's debuffs to drop and he can take back Horridon when he starts his enrage.

    From there it's making sure the tanks manage their active mitigation and that there is always one of the two healers spam healing that tank. That point is very important because you may likely have another Dire Call during his enrage before you kill him. I'd also make sure that you clear the debuffs off the previous tank, especially if it's the druid in case the paladin dies during the enrage before his stacks fall off naturally.
    Last edited by Orion Antares; 2013-07-12 at 02:12 PM.

  17. #17
    We cant keep tanks alive.. They have about 535 ilvl and they are getting one shot from horridon. And they dont even have any stack.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by alihandiro View Post
    We cant keep tanks alive.. They have about 535 ilvl and they are getting one shot from horridon. And they dont even have any stack.
    Tell them to stop sucking and use some active mitigation and cooldowns

  19. #19
    Old God Hyve's Avatar
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    Here are a few tips that we found helped us;

    • Bloodlust / Heroism / Time Warp the Fourth Door. The Warbears on the final door tend to be what destroys a lot of people, and healing that door can be a pain. The same could be said for the third door also, so whatever door is giving you more hassle, pop all your cooldowns and get it over and done with!

    • Two heal this encounter. You'd imagine there is a ton of healing, and while this is true on the tank, and in general, the fight is actually far easier to heal with more DPS, purely because of more interrupts, control, and the mobs die faster. Our last kill was with myself solo healing the entire final phase, which actually wasn't too hard.

    • Focus on completing the encounter door by door, not the entire fight. We struggled for a few attempts, and a few things went wrong over the course of the fight. Instead, we focused on getting each door done properly, so the tanks knew exactly what they're doing, where everyone is standing and what cooldowns need to be used.

    • Consider skipping Horridon Heroic. I know not the advice you might want to hear, but perhaps your team just isn't quite ready. Put some attempts into Tortos, as that encounter isn't too hard either, or Ji-kun if you haven't already. If you've done them, and Horridon is a road block, then it really is about taking your time, figuring out what actually went wrong, and resolving that.

    • Active Raid Leading. A lot of Raid Leaders tend to leave the raid to do everything by themselves, and only calls for things such as Bloodlust. Generally, if you're struggling on the fight, call out a few things to remind people, such as their Spirit Dinosaur, or the Frost Orbs / Sand Traps.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by alihandiro View Post
    We cant keep tanks alive.. They have about 535 ilvl and they are getting one shot from horridon. And they dont even have any stack.
    I highly, highly doubt that is actually happening. A tank at 535 iLevel is going to have far more then enough Health to handle several stacks without any cooldowns, let alone one hit.

    Our Druid Tank suffers in the last phase, as there tends to be a Shout, Puncture & Swipe almost all at the same time, which tends to obliterate our Druid Tank. We've had several kills, and he only just survived this week after everyone popped everything to keep him alive, because it was starting to become a running joke with him.

    The fact is, without logs we can't tell you exactly what is wrong, but if your tanks are dying to one hit, immediately, they're not in their tank gear, or stance ...

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    Our Druid Tank suffers in the last phase, as there tends to be a Shout, Puncture & Swipe almost all at the same time, which tends to obliterate our Druid Tank. We've had several kills, and he only just survived this week after everyone popped everything to keep him alive, because it was starting to become a running joke with him.
    Swipe is 100% avoidable, dont stand in it. A puncture never happens together with swipe, always after or before, never during.

    The oneshot they speak of, and im guessing here, is them standing in swipe, followed by a puncture followed by melee hit, making them die in 2 globals making it look like a oneshot.

    But yeh, logs if you want help OP

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