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  1. #21
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    I like him. I just wish he'd stop throwing the Alliance into the mix with the Horde's actions.

  2. #22
    The Insane
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    I like him. I just wish he'd stop throwing the Alliance into the mix with the Horde's actions.
    No Alliance transgressions, no Horde counter-transgressions. It's child logic, but the truth nonetheless. Oh and ehh... It's not like the Alliance brought nothing but muffinbaskets to Pandaria....

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  3. #23
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    I like him. I just wish he'd stop throwing the Alliance into the mix with the Horde's actions.
    They might not have caused as much damage, but they strip mine pandaria as well, they too awakened the sha etc. Tharan Zhu's speech with Jaina and Lor'themar sums his view on the subject up quite nicely, not to mention he doesn't care for either faction.

    Ot

    I like Zhu for the simple fact that he actually blames us for something we caused.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  4. #24
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksej89 View Post
    He is definitely right about the Horde's effect on Pandaria (especially Garrosh and his warleader Nazgrim) and he is very protective of his people - but, since Pandaria can be hidden no longer, Taran's views are outdated and he himself does not seem to be able to change.

    So he will probably die, but he is definitely right about all his fears and dislikes about the Garrosh's Horde.
    when you think about how lorewalker cho talked about the pandaren rejoining the world, that makes sense because them being cut off from azeroth for thousends of years, AND how the spirit of shao hao tells you that it was pride that created the mists that cut off there lands from the rest of the world, all this is wiser pandaren telling you how they cannot allow themselves to be cut off from it anymore and stagnate.

    Yet, we have taran zhu, he doesn't seem prepared to actually make that leap. Other pandaren have made that leap already, but he actively tells you he doesn't give a shit about anything happening outside of pandaria, he'd just as sooner blaime outsiders for everything and have his own people stagnate like they have done for thousands of years.

    And it does bug me how, it was US who fought against and killed the thunder king, the tyrant all pandaren feared, when he was brought back to life. We gave outselves to helping pandaria take him down, and yet when the roles are reversed and we are telling taran 'this isn't our fault, its the fault of a tyrant dictator who took the heart, which we are now fighting against to take down', all Taran tells you is 'I don't give a shit about your political details, its not my concern, now get out!'.
    Thats.. a really asshole move to do, considering we dealt with the tyrant in his land, but when we tell him we are needing to take down the tyrant that has caused this devastation to the vale, he doesn't give a shit.

    I'm not saying he's a bad character, and I do agree there is solid reason for how he reacts to outsiders and why he's so angry at them. But he's purposely holding a grudge against us being there when it was garrosh who caused this, who we're fighting against now, and that doesn't evever matter to him.
    suppose we didn't give a shit about the thunder king and said the same thing, would be expect us to deal with lei shen because we were in pandaria?
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  5. #25
    Stood in the Fire themightysven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KorbenDallasMultipass View Post
    Thrall rocks ass they just turned him into some super mage at the end of Cataclysm, for whatever the hell purpose.
    He just respec'd to Elemental
    Ewok Sith Lords are all about Agility

  6. #26
    There are many characters in the siege that deserve death.

    But Taran Zhu is last of them.
    The common man is like a worm in the gut of a corpse, trapped inside a prison of cold flesh, helpless and uncaring, unaware even of the inevitability of its own doom.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    when you think about how lorewalker cho talked about the pandaren rejoining the world, that makes sense because them being cut off from azeroth for thousends of years, AND how the spirit of shao hao tells you that it was pride that created the mists that cut off there lands from the rest of the world, all this is wiser pandaren telling you how they cannot allow themselves to be cut off from it anymore and stagnate.

    Yet, we have taran zhu, he doesn't seem prepared to actually make that leap. Other pandaren have made that leap already, but he actively tells you he doesn't give a shit about anything happening outside of pandaria, he'd just as sooner blaime outsiders for everything and have his own people stagnate like they have done for thousands of years.

    And it does bug me how, it was US who fought against and killed the thunder king, the tyrant all pandaren feared, when he was brought back to life. We gave outselves to helping pandaria take him down, and yet when the roles are reversed and we are telling taran 'this isn't our fault, its the fault of a tyrant dictator who took the heart, which we are now fighting against to take down', all Taran tells you is 'I don't give a shit about your political details, its not my concern, now get out!'.
    Thats.. a really asshole move to do, considering we dealt with the tyrant in his land, but when we tell him we are needing to take down the tyrant that has caused this devastation to the vale, he doesn't give a shit.

    I'm not saying he's a bad character, and I do agree there is solid reason for how he reacts to outsiders and why he's so angry at them. But he's purposely holding a grudge against us being there when it was garrosh who caused this, who we're fighting against now, and that doesn't evever matter to him.
    suppose we didn't give a shit about the thunder king and said the same thing, would be expect us to deal with lei shen because we were in pandaria?
    I don't see why he should care about our problems given he's leading a massive organization trained specifically for keeping Pandaria in check (something that we ruined in every way imaginable). He does tell the Horde to leave the Vale (now that half of it has been destroyed and the sacred water being corrupted*) but allows them to stay until seasons end when Dezco explains the situation.

    What more do you expect of Taran Zhu? Taran was always supposed to be one of the more serious Pandaren, while most are pretty nice for the most part he knows that it's his responsibility to keep all these great evils in check and has been trained to keep his emotions grounded. If he was being any nicer to the people ravaging his land he'd be a pushover. I (and I seem to be the only thinking this) think Blizzard did a great job with his character.

    *Not sure if the sacred waters are corrupted before or during the raid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kekekz View Post
    Everyone hated BC, everyone hated Wrath, everyone hated Cata and everyone will hate MoP. MoP will become the new worst expansion and Al'akir or BoT will become the new "last good raid" or something stupid like that.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by sqicychiqotles View Post
    I don't see why he should care about our problems given he's leading a massive organization trained specifically for keeping Pandaria in check (something that we ruined in every way imaginable). He does tell the Horde to leave the Vale (now that half of it has been destroyed and the sacred water being corrupted*) but allows them to stay until seasons end when Dezco explains the situation.

    What more do you expect of Taran Zhu? Taran was always supposed to be one of the more serious Pandaren, while most are pretty nice for the most part he knows that it's his responsibility to keep all these great evils in check and has been trained to keep his emotions grounded. If he was being any nicer to the people ravaging his land he'd be a pushover. I (and I seem to be the only thinking this) think Blizzard did a great job with his character.
    Neither the horde nor the alliance were responsible for the Zandalari incursion into Pandaria including the Thunder King's resurrection, it took the combined efforts of the horde, alliance, and shado pan to break into the citadel to begin with, and last I checked there weren't any shado-pan NPC's hogging the glory from killing Lei Shen or Ra-den.

    I mostly agree with your characterization of Taran Zhu though. I personally don't like him, but I think that is actually a good thing. He rubs me the wrong way because he's written as stubborn and old-fashioned and closed minded. He does keep a consistency though - versus the countless retcons and off-kilter plot devices that have riddled wow in the recent past. So I would agree blizzard did a great job with the character, he's a guy a lot of people don't like, because we are put off by the closed-minded xenophobic contempt he has for us as player-characters.

  9. #29
    I hope he survives. Soundfiles so far, show's that he is nothing more than tired, broken and empty husk at the time we reach sha of pride. He failed all of his duties, and will have to spend rest of his pathetic life thinking it was all his fault. Sounds much worse than death to me.

  10. #30
    Sounds like another butt hurt Hordie.

    Care to elaborate on your point, op?

  11. #31
    All of these discussions and arguments could be solved if they would stop shitting out continents in Azeroth. Send us to Argus or Some other planet soon for the love of god.

  12. #32
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
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    Hes in way over his head, and he has no place talking down to the Horde or the Alliance. Hes the dev teams attempt to make pandas seem relevant.

  13. #33
    Nah, after MoP he will just be added to the long list of obscure lore characters we will never hear from again.

    A fate worse than death if you ask me.

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  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    when you think about how lorewalker cho talked about the pandaren rejoining the world, that makes sense because them being cut off from azeroth for thousends of years, AND how the spirit of shao hao tells you that it was pride that created the mists that cut off there lands from the rest of the world, all this is wiser pandaren telling you how they cannot allow themselves to be cut off from it anymore and stagnate.

    Yet, we have taran zhu, he doesn't seem prepared to actually make that leap. Other pandaren have made that leap already, but he actively tells you he doesn't give a shit about anything happening outside of pandaria, he'd just as sooner blaime outsiders for everything and have his own people stagnate like they have done for thousands of years.

    And it does bug me how, it was US who fought against and killed the thunder king, the tyrant all pandaren feared, when he was brought back to life. We gave outselves to helping pandaria take him down, and yet when the roles are reversed and we are telling taran 'this isn't our fault, its the fault of a tyrant dictator who took the heart, which we are now fighting against to take down', all Taran tells you is 'I don't give a shit about your political details, its not my concern, now get out!'.
    Thats.. a really asshole move to do, considering we dealt with the tyrant in his land, but when we tell him we are needing to take down the tyrant that has caused this devastation to the vale, he doesn't give a shit.

    I'm not saying he's a bad character, and I do agree there is solid reason for how he reacts to outsiders and why he's so angry at them. But he's purposely holding a grudge against us being there when it was garrosh who caused this, who we're fighting against now, and that doesn't evever matter to him.
    suppose we didn't give a shit about the thunder king and said the same thing, would be expect us to deal with lei shen because we were in pandaria?
    We helped the Shado-Pan, sure. That doesn't mean we're without fault, or immune from making mistakes. The Horde/Alliance conflict continues to ravage Taran Zhu's HOMELAND -- in fact, not only his home, but the most sacred place on the whole damn island (the Vale), a place that not even many of his OWN PEOPLE have been able to set foot into for generations. We come along, set up shop (the Celestials open the Vale, putting a lot of trust in us), and suddenly the place goes to hell (Garrosh's doing).

    Taran Zhu is not a perfect character, he isn't seeing every angle... he is prejudiced, because he is realistic in that regard. He is flawed. He's set in his ways. He values Pandaria so much, he does not want to see it tarnished... by outsiders, especially. We may be of aid to him, and his is not ungrateful, but we've also done a lot of damage -- and continue to do so.

    Here's an example for you: the USA helped France immensely during World War II. Imagine if US soldiers went over there now and knocked over the Eiffel Tower. Just knocked it down. Do you really think they would be "OK" with that, despite how we've helped them in the past?

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    I like Zhu for the simple fact that he actually blames us for something we caused.
    Agreed.

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    Back in Molten Core in Vanilla, about 20 people up and the rest still being ressed. Cidet, our rogue, goes in stealth and moves up to Ragnaros. About 5 seconds later, Ragnaros aggroes and starts killing all of us again. Everyone is pissed and I whisper Cidet "wtf happened?!". All he replies me is...

    "Target has no pockets"

  16. #36
    Brewmaster Aeula's Avatar
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    Do we even need to kill him ? He sounds like a broken man, chances are he'll turn into a hermit and live the rest of his life in the mountains of kun'lai, forever haunted by his failure to protect pandaria.

    Or atleast i hope so.

  17. #37
    I like him quite a lot.

  18. #38
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    They might not have caused as much damage, but they strip mine pandaria as well, they too awakened the sha etc. Tharan Zhu's speech with Jaina and Lor'themar sums his view on the subject up quite nicely, not to mention he doesn't care for either faction.
    I'm more leaning towards his dialogue in 5.4. That's a different ball game entirely when it comes to his criticism.

  19. #39
    Taran Zhu might have had a good point, but when i started Jade forest on my main, saw (and took part in) the first Alliance victory since Cataclysm hit, and the first thing i get is a lecture about the evils of fighting back (So sorry we didn't roll over right away!), i was tired of him, then came Shado-pan monastery, Kun-lai, temple of the white tiger, Townlong steppes and finally his lecture at isle of thunder, and now i just want him to go away and leave us to, you know, fight for our lives against Garrosh and his lot...

  20. #40
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    I'm more leaning towards his dialogue in 5.4. That's a different ball game entirely when it comes to his criticism.
    Well he does hate our guts now, he distrusted the outsiders before,but was willing to tolerate them, since they helped him out.With the final Sha unleashed and the heart unearthed and in Og Pandaria is free of it's taint in the fututre, but that hardly matters to Zhu now, because of our interference he failed his most important duty.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

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