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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    You're confusing what I'm saying. Doren was not acting under Varian, it doesn't mean he's not Alliance or not representative of the Alliance's flaws either. But he is not the leader who represents and governs his people. Varian is and he has spoken otherwise. Garrosh on the other hand is Warchief of the Horde - he is the Horde.
    Doren was acting under Varian. He was send to Pandaria under direct orders from Varian himself.

    And no, Garrosh is not the Horde - he doesn't associate himself with it, nor does the Horde associate it with him. It's all about his "True Horde" now.

    ---------- Post added 2013-07-01 at 09:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Khorine View Post
    So he's the counter part of the Horde npc which is equally disturbed. Why are people even comparing him with Varian ?!
    We aren't. Just stating that he was an Alliance leader, commiting crimes against Pandaria in the name of the Alliance, thus a reason as to why Zhu doesn't like the Alliance either.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  2. #82
    Legendary! KrazyK923's Avatar
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    Taran Zhu is an amazing character. He has more depth than most of the characters thusfar introduced to the lore.

    Seems like to me a lot of people dislike the fact that he constantly is pointing out the fact that we're fucking up his continent. The thing they don't realize is that he is right.

    Doren was acting under Varian. He was send to Pandaria under direct orders from Varian himself.

    And no, Garrosh is not the Horde - he doesn't associate himself with it, nor does the Horde associate it with him. It's all about his "True Horde" now.
    Yeah...Garrosh does that in 5.4. Sorry, Horde players, you don't get to retroactively dismiss all Garrosh has done simply because now he's finally crossed a line. That isn't how it works.

  3. #83
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khorine View Post
    So he's the counter part of the Horde npc which is equally disturbed. Why are people even comparing him with Varian ?!
    They are not really comparing him to Varian, just that the guy is responsible for some shady things, undermining Varian's original intention, protecting the land.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Taran Zhu is an amazing character. He has more depth than most of the characters thusfar introduced to the lore.

    Seems like to me a lot of people dislike the fact that he constantly is pointing out the fact that we're fucking up his continent. The thing they don't realize is that he is right.



    Yeah...Garrosh does that in 5.4. Sorry, Horde players, you don't get to retroactively dismiss all Garrosh has done simply because now he's finally crossed a line. That isn't how it works.
    Eh, Garrosh crossed the line long ago, just take 5.1 as an example - trying to assassinate Vol'jin and the invasion of the Echo Isles. Or when he used a mana-bomb on Theramore back before MoP, or having his Dark Shaman constantly work on rituals which could cause a second Cataclysm knowingly... Fact is, ever since he became Warchief, every other member of the Horde (bar the young orcs) have felt that Garrosh did not represent the New Horde or their general mindset, but rather the Old Horde, heck Cairne even contemplated on this after Orgrimmar was rebuild with dark, tall spires of steel.
    Last edited by Venziir; 2013-07-01 at 09:08 PM.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  5. #85
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Eh, Garrosh crossed the line long ago, just take 5.1 as an example - trying to assassinate Vol'jin and the invasion of the Echo Isles.
    I have to guess, but I think he means Southshore ,Theramore etc.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Taran Zhu is an amazing character. He has more depth than most of the characters thusfar introduced to the lore.

    Seems like to me a lot of people dislike the fact that he constantly is pointing out the fact that we're fucking up his continent. The thing they don't realize is that he is right.

    Yeah...Garrosh does that in 5.4. Sorry, Horde players, you don't get to retroactively dismiss all Garrosh has done simply because now he's finally crossed a line. That isn't how it works.

    That's true but at the same time the Thunderking has been eliminated, the greatest threat to Pandaria. Even withouth the Alliance or Horde, the zandalari would come to Pandaria anyway and they would have awakened Lei Shen who would have enslaved Pandaria unopposed.

  7. #87
    Legendary! KrazyK923's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Eh, Garrosh crossed the line long ago, just take 5.1 as an example - trying to assassinate Vol'jin and the invasion of the Echo Isles.
    Good thing he was overthrown in 5.1. Oh wait.

    And can I also just say that I find it utterly hilarious Horde players try to equate Doren with Garrosh. Doren royally fucked up the Alliance's first impression on Pandaria, but to pretend they are the same is a joke.

    That's true but at the same time the Thunderking has been eliminated, the greatest threat to Pandaria. Even withouth the Alliance or Horde, the zandalari would come to Pandaria anyway and they would have awakened Lei Shen who would have enslaved Pandaria unopposed.
    Considering the Shado-Pan were stretched thin because of all the Alliance and Horde unleashed, nobody can say this would happen with certainty. Personally I think it seems more likely that with the Shado-Pan majority chilling out around Kun-Lai near their monastery, the Zandalari would never make it to Lei Shen's tomb.

    I have to guess, but I think he means Southshore ,Theramore etc.
    The Horde had no problem with Garrosh when he was abusing the Cataclysm to invade Alliance lands. Ashenvale, Darkshore, commanding Sylvanas to attack Gilneas and then take all of northern Lordaeron, corrupt Galen Trollbane and renew the conflict in Arathi. Theramore being destroyed and all that happens to Pandaria just the icing on the cake, imo.

    But now that Garrosh's warmongering has reached its natural conclusion...NOW its bad for the Horde.

    I'm sorry, even though I do play Alliance, trying to view this in an unbiased manner...I can't see how the Horde can retroactively be like "Yeah he's a bad guy, and never spoke for us!"
    Last edited by KrazyK923; 2013-07-01 at 09:10 PM.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by KorbenDallasMultipass View Post
    Just the worst type of character I've ever seen in Warcraft, I can't stand this bastard.
    I'd frankly like to see him and the SP kick the crap out of both alliance and horde, and send them both off Pandaria for good.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    I'd frankly like to see him and the SP kick the crap out of both alliance and horde, and send them both off Pandaria for good.
    I don't think after all this the Shado pan are in any shape to take on a major threat. They might have been able, before the Mogu,Sha,Yaungol,Mantid invasion but now I seriously doubt it.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  10. #90
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Doren was acting under Varian. He was send to Pandaria under direct orders from Varian himself.
    According to Doren's logs they were simply in a naval battle and wrecked on Pandaria. They were not on Pandaria at all by Varian's orders.
    http://www.wowhead.com/object=215882

    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    And no, Garrosh is not the Horde - he doesn't associate himself with it, nor does the Horde associate it with him. It's all about his "True Horde" now.
    It's not Garrosh that doesn't associate with it. It's the rebels that don't associate with him. But again this doesn't change the fact he's Warchief of the Horde. You need only think about any irl example to draw a line between what you're saying and what I'm saying.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Good thing he was overthrown in 5.1. Oh wait.

    And can I also just say that I find it utterly hilarious Horde players try to equate Doren with Garrosh. Doren royally fucked up the Alliance's first impression on Pandaria, but to pretend they are the same is a joke.



    Considering the Shado-Pan were stretched thin because of all the Alliance and Horde unleashed, nobody can say this would happen with certainty. Personally I think it seems more likely that with the Shado-Pan majority chilling out around Kun-Lai near their monastery, the Zandalari would never make it to Lei Shen's tomb.
    Sigh... Did I say that? No, no I did not. Did I however say that I found it odd that somehow Doren didn't represent the Alliance when he commited crimes on Pandaria, when every single action performed by Garrosh represents the entire Horde? Yes, yes I did.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Sigh... Did I say that? No, no I did not. Did I however say that I found it odd that somehow Doren didn't represent the Alliance when he commited crimes on Pandaria, when every single action performed by Garrosh represents the entire Horde? Yes, yes I did.
    They both represent their faction.

    Garrosh is simply far worse.

    I also think its important that this is the only instance you see of the Alliance acting in this way. You keep mentioning what the Gnomes do in Krasarang, and yet Blizzard nor any of the Pandaren characters ever mention this in a negative light.

    Perhaps it has something to do with Varian flat-out stating that their goal is to stop the Horde from conquering Pandaria, which is something Garrosh has repeatedly said, and not trying to do so themselves. They're called "Dominance Offensive" and "Operation: Shieldwall" for a reason.

  13. #93
    Guessing Taran Zhu will be MoP's Tirion Fordring.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    According to Doren's logs they were simply in a naval battle and wrecked on Pandaria. They were not on Pandaria at all by Varian's orders.
    http://www.wowhead.com/object=215882



    It's not Garrosh that doesn't associate with it. It's the rebels that don't associate with him. But again this doesn't change the fact he's Warchief of the Horde. You need only think about any irl example to draw a line between what you're saying and what I'm saying.
    Listen to the 5.4 soundfiles, I assure you - Garrosh does not consider the current Horde of trolls, blood elves, forsaken, tauren or bilgewater goblins his Horde, he consideres it an amalgamation of failed and weak races, which should all cower before him and his True Horde.

    And yes, Doren was there by relative accident, however, all his actions were performed as an Alliance Officer, therefore they still represents the Alliance, and the Hing King of the Alliance is Varian.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    According to Doren's logs they were simply in a naval battle and wrecked on Pandaria. They were not on Pandaria at all by Varian's orders.
    http://www.wowhead.com/object=215882
    Does that actually change anything? The answer is no the first impressions are made the mess is there, both faction war on the continent, stripmining bringing death and devastation, it is like the Alliance tries to get a fire under control, but throws in a canister Gasoline, by accident.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  16. #96
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    Every time I encountered Taran Zhu, I liked him a good chunk more, he is one of the most likable in whole of Pandaria.

    And the most important part, he is right about Alliance and Horde on the Isle of Thunder.
    "Why do we fight? To protect home and family, to preserve balance and bring harmony. For my kind the true question is, what is worth fighting for?"

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khorine View Post
    Guessing Taran Zhu will be MoP's Tirion Fordring.
    From what we can deign from the sound files, all Taran Zhu does is get his ass whooped by the Sha of Pride and then brings up the point about having outsiders in the Vale again. Once again Xuen is stupid and thinks they should say. Frankly Taran Zhu is completely right about both factions.

    He isn't seen after that.

  18. #98
    If you do not like Taran Zhu, I simply ask you to read this article on the Shado-Pan and Taran Zhu himself. It is from Wow Insider and sheds a lot of light on why he is angry with the horde and alliance and why he did not want us in the Vale.

    http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/06/30/kn...pan/#continued

    Go read it may not change your mind but it makes a lot of sense.
    Excited

  19. #99
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    They both represent their faction.

    Garrosh is simply far worse.

    I also think its important that this is the only instance you see of the Alliance acting in this way. You keep mentioning what the Gnomes do in Krasarang, and yet Blizzard nor any of the Pandaren characters ever mention this in a negative light.

    Perhaps it has something to do with Varian flat-out stating that their goal is to stop the Horde from conquering Pandaria, which is something Garrosh has repeatedly said, and not trying to do so themselves. They're called "Dominance Offensive" and "Operation: Shieldwall" for a reason.
    Garrosh is worse, but from Zhu's perspective the Alliance isn't much better, if by accident or not they brought great destruction and suffering to Pandaria.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Does that actually change anything? The answer is no the first impressions are made the mess is there, both faction war on the continent, stripmining bringing death and devastation, it is like the Alliance tries to get a fire under control, but throws in a canister Gasoline, by accident.
    There is a key difference. The Alliance never claims to come to Pandaria to conquer it. Garrosh does.

    Does that mean the Alliance are innocent? Of course not. They have their share of fuck-ups. But this distinction is important and needs to be noted.

    Garrtosh is worse, but from Zhu's perspective the Alliance isn't much better, if by accident or not they brought great destruction and suffering to Pandaria.
    Because of Garrosh basically causing the Fourth War. Also, see above comment.

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