Would you be for/against a united EU military?

[lavafoxx]

i think we are thinking about different meanings of the word "arrogant"

I think you may be right, my apologies.

[Wikiy]

It isn't arrogant to care only for yourself and immediate family more then anybody else overseas. (or in some cases, even across the street)

Being arrogant isn't that far from what you described though. It's about putting one's own self-importance above others even if it means trampling on others.

Not that I'm accusing the US of doing that.

didnt one of them run for president of Croatia?

That would be Czechia. Well, you remembered the first letter. ^^

[Wikiy]

Look the UK is part of Europe yes but they were smart enough to stay away from the Euro, the same will happen with a joined military.
There is simply no way that the UK will give up its traditions and way of running their military to suit the french or germans or any other European country.
The standard of the UK military is the best in Europe and Ill have to say that the French do come close but still.
Look at it this way the French have to work with Germans if it happens and they are not going to like it when German troops are stationed again in their country been they've been there done that have 2 fucking t-shirts and thats just 1 example.

The only ones who'd mind something like this are those who're stuck in the past or simply think the 21st century can be compared with anything in the past.

[Deleted]

I'm all for further EU intergration. Check out these (some reasoures on how it currently works etc) :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lan...ies_%282010%29 - UK and france co-operation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_...Defence_Policy - EU common security and defense policy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Defence_Agency - EDA

It don't think military pooling and agreements between allies effect a nations soverignty.

[Kalis]

I'm all for further EU intergration. Check out these (some reasoures on how it currently works etc) :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lan...ies_%282010%29 - UK and france co-operation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_...Defence_Policy - EU common security and defense policy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Defence_Agency - EDA

It don't think military pooling and agreements between allies effect a nations soverignty.

Military pooling and agreements don't, but a single force does as it would require a unified foreign policy.

[Wikiy]

Military pooling and agreements don't, but a single force does as it would require a unified foreign policy.

Yeah, if the EU were invaded by an outside force, for example, then it might even be realistic that EU member states start cooperating in a defense strategy through the EU, but this is assuming that the EU's military is only ever going to be used in case of an invasion, and this assuredly isn't and wont be the case.

[TheGravemind]

Against as it would upset the balance of power in the world (and by balance I mean the post-Cold War unipolar holding of power by the United States.) This would only spawn possibilities for more future conflicts. There's no reason for the world to become further militarized until we become a space-faring species and discover a means to rapidly explore our galaxy, especially the Orion Arm.

[Sivick]

isn't that what NATO is for?

[Deleted]

isn't that what NATO is for?

No, NATO is a rather out dated treaty that acted as a deterrent to the Soviets, it never applied to all of Europe since much of it was under Soviet control. OP is instead on about a unified force with standardised equipment, training, ranks and for it all to come together in harmony under one giant umbrella.

[Wikiy]

No, it would be a horrible idea.

I don't live in Europe, what if they declare war on me?

Right. Merkel is going to deceive Europe into uniting and then she's going to declare herself Chancellor-for-life and eventually Eternal Empress of the European Empire. She's then going to go fulfill her German dream of world domination.

[Teroseth]

Against. I'm opposed to the European Union as it is, I wouldn't want them to have more power over people. What good is a country like Germany having any say in Spain's policies? Or vice versa? Or add your own examples. Totally different cultures and ways of thinking, by all means, be allies, be friends but do it as individual nations.

[Deleted]

Against he whole standardised equipment and training and one Military route.

Agreements to work together with their own independent militaries I dont see anything wrong with.

The Eurofighter is actually an interesting point with this discussion. It effectively is a european built fighter so if all european countries used it you would say its a standardised piece of equipment that would support the idea of a united military. However its a joint venture where each nation builds specific parts, which you would assume are parts that they are renowned for making, which potentially means it can be developed rapidly (rather than one company working on all aspects, each company develops their parts (more time on each part))
That idea would support the concept of keeping the individual militaries since each one while be better at certain tasks (even adding a degree of uncertainty for any enemies regarding how they will perform a task)

[Bakis]

Multiple nations acting under one military doesn't seem like a good idea. I mean, the UN is a coalition force and they can barely operate in my opinion.

Depends, EU would be countries with alot in common.

[Deleted]

The EU isn't exactly united, especially when Turkey joins in. Cyprus having a joint military with a country currently occupying a large chunk of their island? Laughable.

As if Turkey is ever joining? It won't happen.

[Ealyssa]

As a swiss I am against the UE (Switzerland isn't member of UE, for americans who don't know my country).

But I would see an UE army as a good thing, at would mean that the UE finaly broke as it is today and became a federal country.
Europe is actually a monstrous burocratic thingy. But iif they one day manage to have only one army, that day UE may finally work (it will obviously happen one day, I just hope to see it myself)

[Cybran]

But I would see an UE army as a good thing, at would mean that the UE finaly broke as it is today and became a federal country.
Europe is actually a monstrous burocratic thingy. But iif they one day manage to have only one army, that day UE may finally work (it will obviously happen one day, I just hope to see it myself)

It will never happen. The EU will disintegrate in a few years.

[Ealyssa]

It will never happen. The EU will disintegrate in a few years.

Doesn't matter, really. Europe will at one point be a unique country. The only question is when.

[Wikiy]

It will never happen. The EU will disintegrate in a few years.

Cybran, why do you always do this without giving arguments? I mean, I know the arguments and you certainly don't have to repeat them to me here, but it's simply silly. Someone makes a statement that something will happen and you quite often reply with "it wont". That's not very constructive.

[Thyranne]

As a french citzen I'd love to see it. I'd like to see more integration.

[Cybran]

Cybran, why do you always do this without giving arguments? I mean, I know the arguments and you certainly don't have to repeat them to me here, but it's simply silly. Someone makes a statement that something will happen and you quite often reply with "it wont". That's not very constructive.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9620AL20130703

Coming soon after the near-collapse of the Greek government, which has been given until Monday to show it can meet the demands of its own EU-IMF bailout, the euro zone may be on the brink of falling back into full-on crisis.

EU officials have been at pains to talk down any unrest, buoyed by the tranquility in financial markets since European Central Bank President Mario Draghi made good on his pledge last summer to do whatever it takes to protect the euro via a bond-buying program.

European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso has spoken of the worst of the crisis being over, and the economic affairs commissioner, Olli Rehn, has often dismissed "doomsayers" who once predicted the euro would collapse.

But despite the desire to project calm, EU officials quietly acknowledge that all is not well and that any number of problems could throw the region back into turmoil.

"There are always issues simmering under the surface," said an EU diplomat who has been dealing first hand with the crisis since it erupted in Greece in early 2010.

"It's far from over. The immediacy may have ebbed away, but I think we're all aware that under the surface, there's still a lot of stuff than can come back to bite us."

During a meeting of finance officials from the 17 euro countries on Tuesday, there was agreement that the "optimism in the euro zone is not justified, that we are in worse shape than it seems," according to one source at the meeting.

The situation in Portugal was a particular concern, said JP Morgan economist Alex White.

"The announcement this afternoon that Paulo Portas, the foreign minister, has resigned significantly escalates our near-term concerns," he said in a note to clients. "At the moment risks appear elevated."

All that is coming against a backdrop of rising euro zone borrowing costs once again after the U.S. Federal Reserve's announcement of an exit strategy from its money-printing program put world markets back into a spin.

Portuguese 10-year bond yields spiked up to eight percent on Wednesday with reports of further ministerial resignations throwing the coalition government's future into peril.

Portas has to decide whether to stay in his post or pull his rightist CDS-PP party out of the coalition, robbing the government of its majority.

Greece, which has resumed talks with its EU and IMF lenders, is every bit as alarming.

A privatization process, which was supposed to help cut into Greece's debt mountain down, has stalled and progress on public sector reform is faltering.

Prime Minister Antonis Samaras has ruled out a fresh round of cuts, his government is seeking to lower its privatization revenue target after failing to sell its natural gas operation and there is a 1 billion euros black hole in the state-run health insurer, so its lenders may demand measures to fill that.

There are some suggestions that the EU and IMF may refuse to pay at least some of the 8.1 billion euros bailout tranche on offer and dribble it out instead in order to focus minds in Athens. Anything more dramatic would be risky since Greece faces big bond redemptions next month and nobody wants a default.

With German elections looming in September, Angela Merkel's government is determined not to rock the boat beforehand.

CRISIS AWAKENS FROM SLUMBER

Spain and Italy, two far larger economies, also major risks, as do banking sector problems in Slovenia, slow reforms in Cyprus and a scandal in Ireland that has shaken confidence.

In a note to clients late last month, Italy's Mediobanca warned that the country would "inevitably end up in an EU bailout request" in the next six months unless borrowing costs could be kept low and the economy found some traction.

Prime Minister Enrico Letta, in office only since April, faces instability in his coalition, with former prime minister Mario Monti threatening to withdraw support because of the slow pace of desperately needed economic reforms.

While Spain may have avoided a full bailout so far, its banks - which received 40 billion euros from the euro zone rescue fund in 2012 - face a long road to rehabilitation, as do those in Ireland. The IMF praised both countries for their efforts last month, but also warned of risks ahead.

"There are so many negatives outside of Greece as well. On the rest of them, we just want them postponed until after the summer," said one senior euro zone source.

In Ireland, which has performed best of the rescued countries and is expected to emerge from its assistance program later this year, the problems are more of reputation than implementation.

Transcripts of telephone conversations from 2008 have revealed how bankers at Anglo Irish Bank made light of the Irish government's decision to guarantee their liabilities, a move that ultimately saddled the nation with vast debts.

The bankers also ridiculed Germany - the chief underwriter of all the rescue loans in Europe - singing "Deutschland ueber alles" on the tapes, which has infuriated German officials, the very people the Irish government needs to keep happy.

German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble described the bankers as contemptuous.

While Ireland's problems are likely to blow over, those in Portugal, Greece and Cyprus, which also has tough bailout conditions to meet, are clear and present, and those in Italy and Spain show few signs of disappearing.

EU institutions effectively shut down in August. but that might not prevent a restless summer as the slumbering crisis reawakens agitated.

The crisis will reignite very soon. Once Chinese banks start failing because of lack of liquidity and the US is unable to print it's way out of the new global recession. The Euro and eventually the EU will dissolve.