1. #1

    Death Knights - Unholy vs Frost

    Hello Death Knight players,

    Couple of questions I have about Frost and Unholy. Obviously Frost specializes in burst and unholy seems to specialize more in pressure but I still don't understand where the damage comes from in Unholy. So first of all, for Unholy, I take Haste over Mastery right? Second of all, what's with the ridiculously low Scourge Strike damage? Is there something I'm missing? Maybe another filler instead of SS?

    Thanks.
    EU Bnet: Sevaara#2622
    Restoration Druid & Protection Paladin

  2. #2
    Damage comes from pet, gargoyle, dots and deathcoils. Your main goal is to keep up a nice amount of necrotic strikes on your target so convert your runes to death runes and dont mindlessly spam them, but 1-2 runes so you can refresh them when there about to run out.
    Soul reaper is usually a kill from 35% if you cover it up with enough necros.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Otzsx View Post
    Damage comes from pet, gargoyle, dots and deathcoils. Your main goal is to keep up a nice amount of necrotic strikes on your target so convert your runes to death runes and dont mindlessly spam them, but 1-2 runes so you can refresh them when there about to run out.
    Soul reaper is usually a kill from 35% if you cover it up with enough necros.
    Makes sense. Can kinda see why Unholy has a much higher skill cap than Frost.
    EU Bnet: Sevaara#2622
    Restoration Druid & Protection Paladin

  4. #4
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    UH actually has some nice burst damage, I have no idea where it comes from, but all the dot ticks etc all add up :>

  5. #5
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Frost doesn't have any burst, its all high amounts of sustained damage.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    Frost doesn't have any burst, its all high amounts of sustained damage.
    The burst is from KM procs used with oblit.

    The damage comes not from scourge strike but more from Festering Strike if I recall. Most high rated DK's will run with a double proc trinket that procs at the very start of a match, and keep those dot's up all game on every person on the enemy team, causing lots of spread pressure, especially with NS in the mix. But it is a class that can get bursted down relatively quick, and has a high skill cap.
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  7. #7
    You can do amazing burst as a unholy dk, if you open with d&d, plague strike>bloodboilx2>icy touch x2> pop all trinkets + gargoyle, unh frenzy and co> outbreak > empower runic weapon> necro x4, soul reaper. This gets even better if you have full stacks of blood charges so you can blood tap for more necros, due to how necrotics work this means you will have like 500k absorb on your target and you will do sick amounts if dps.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    UH actually has some nice burst damage, I have no idea where it comes from, but all the dot ticks etc all add up :>
    It can burst but more skill ramp up time needed then frost

  9. #9
    They are very much like WW monks. Give them 30 - 45 seconds and heads will be rolling... sometimes you just can't get there though. They definitely have more utility than Frost.. Frost seems to be a one trick pony.

  10. #10
    I spec frost for random/rated BGs just due to the burst potential and damage. Frost is great for group combat, especially with a good healer.

    For arena, I go unholy. The control is much, much better. Burst isn't as good, but the pressure more than makes up for it. In more intimate, smaller combat unholy is king.

  11. #11
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Some of you seriously do not understand what burst is. Random 60k Pillar of Frost Obliterate RNG Killing Machine crits is not burst. Gargoyle + Trinket Diseases + Pet Transformation, Unholy Frenzy is not burst. DK's are a very high pressure, high damage melee but they lack an actual burst ability that can global someone in a few GCD's.

    Warrior's Avatar and Retribution's Avenger/Wings are good examples of burst because those abilities can kill you in a few globals if you don't peel.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    Some of you seriously do not understand what burst is. Random 60k Pillar of Frost Obliterate RNG Killing Machine crits is not burst. Gargoyle + Trinket Diseases + Pet Transformation, Unholy Frenzy is not burst. DK's are a very high pressure, high damage melee but they lack an actual burst ability that can global someone in a few GCD's.

    Warrior's Avatar and Retribution's Avenger/Wings are good examples of burst because those abilities can kill you in a few globals if you don't peel.
    I was doing 2s the other day, trinket procced, Pillar of Frost, KM proc, 143k Oblit, 93k Frost Strike, another KM proc, 134k Oblit.
    EU Bnet: Sevaara#2622
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sevaara View Post
    Hello Death Knight players,

    Couple of questions I have about Frost and Unholy. Obviously Frost specializes in burst and unholy seems to specialize more in pressure but I still don't understand where the damage comes from in Unholy. So first of all, for Unholy, I take Haste over Mastery right? Second of all, what's with the ridiculously low Scourge Strike damage? Is there something I'm missing? Maybe another filler instead of SS?

    Thanks.
    I play unholy. I take haste to 9.0 second rune regen in blood presence then mastery from then on, sometimes just straight mastery I kinda bounce around. Unholy's damage comes from very strong dots (on multiple targets), 1sec gcd with damage on every one (except to chains or pet transform or cc) and in UH pres 45% melee attack speed so alot of white attacks with a 2hander, and pet(s) damage, and necrotic absorbs making it look like more damage than it is. I rarely, if ever, crit for more then 45k unless its a soul reaper. I dont need to though, since there is so much stuff happening to the target when im on them including 40k+ absorbs every necrotic.

    SS does low damage, but like I said, it doesn't need to be high damage. However, theres only 4 useful things to do with an unholy rune (outside of D&D to find stealthers).
    1) Pet Transform: Obviously important when you can.
    2) Soul Reaper: Hits slightly less than a SS but worse than SS if it doesnt go off. Can force a healer dispel though.
    3) Plague Strike: Lowest damage of the 3 UH rune strikes but applies both diseases, obviously useful when u need diseases.
    4) SS: That leaves scourge strike, which is in fact the highest damage ability with an UH rune if soul reaper doesnt go off. If your mastery stacking, the damage is even more.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sevaara View Post
    I was doing 2s the other day, trinket procced, Pillar of Frost, KM proc, 143k Oblit, 93k Frost Strike, another KM proc, 134k Oblit.
    This is a lie you can crit +130k on mages with all cds up but 93k frost strike is simply not doable, even if you use macro to switch weapons to dual wield.

  15. #15
    Pandaren Monk docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebi View Post
    This is a lie you can crit +130k on mages with all cds up but 93k frost strike is simply not doable, even if you use macro to switch weapons to dual wield.
    What he said, im in full tyrannical, i have swordguard embroidery (+4000 AP) synapse springs (1920 strength) and my top frost strike crit is 60k.

    On topic: I used to play frost only, then I learned UH and it fucking rocks frost's world. Make a macro with all your offensive CDs+gargoyle. Pop that baby and stack necrotics. More often than not it's GG.

    I carry people for 200g a win and it's safe to say I have solod 2 people at the same time on many occasions, you just can't do that as frost, because you don't have a pet that puts constant pressure on the enemy. Unholy also has nice ranged utility from death coil, and great speed from deaths advance and unholy presence. Frost just can't hold a candle to unholy atm.

    Words to live by.

  16. #16
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    Some of you seriously do not understand what burst is. Random 60k Pillar of Frost Obliterate RNG Killing Machine crits is not burst. Gargoyle + Trinket Diseases + Pet Transformation, Unholy Frenzy is not burst. DK's are a very high pressure, high damage melee but they lack an actual burst ability that can global someone in a few GCD's.

    Warrior's Avatar and Retribution's Avenger/Wings are good examples of burst because those abilities can kill you in a few globals if you don't peel.
    Those are the higher end burst, that's not to say UH has no burst at all. I've seen UH take down healers pretty quick once they get going.

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