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  1. #61
    The story of WoW in a nutshell:

    WARchief: "Let's go to War!"
    Vol'jin: "Noooooooooooo! Noo! Nooooooooooo! NO! I will kill you!"
    Everyone: "The WARchief is doing WAR in WARcraft, how horrible! Let's kill him!"
    WARchief: "..."
    ♦ Scepticist ♦ Critic ♦

  2. #62
    Warchief Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    The story of WoW in a nutshell:

    WARchief: "Let's go to War!"
    Vol'jin: "Noooooooooooo! Noo! Nooooooooooo! NO! I will kill you!"
    Everyone: "The WARchief is doing WAR in WARcraft, how horrible! Let's kill him!"
    WARchief: "..."
    The story is no more focused on the Alliance and the Horde completely destroying each other by the times of WC2, that was excused because the orcs were the baddies there. You want this war lasts forever? That's your problem, but the game followed a different direction by the times of WC3. Deal with it.
    Darkspear never die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Stop the crazy semi-RP nonsense, and get some fresh air.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    The Sha of Pride would be the strongest entity in the universe if he had a link with the WoW forums...
    Quote Originally Posted by Speaknoevil View Post
    You are children on a playground drawing lines in the sand.

  3. #63
    If he'd been slightly more inclusive and less racist, but still totally bent on industry, exploitation of resources, acquiring ancient weaponry, creating awesome war-beasts with stolen flesh-shaping magic, and harnessing dark powers, I'd be 100% on board with Garrosh.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    The story is no more focused on the Alliance and the Horde completely destroying each other by the times of WC2, that was excused because the orcs were the baddies there. You want this war lasts forever? That's your problem, but the game followed a different direction by the times of WC3. Deal with it.
    It's more related to the limitations of an MMO. If the world had been more realistic, then we would have seen much bigger power and territory shifts and storyline development.

    In Warcraft I, the "Alliance" lost half of their land and many major lore characters and leaders died or got tortured. In Warcraft II, the Alliance pushed back the Horde and old alliances broke and new ones were made.

    In WC3 ... yeah, that's the big one. New factions were born, entire nations got exterminated, factions changed alliances several times. Entire factions had major overhauls and refound themselves in different ways, changing big parts of their culture to survive.

    So yeah, it's the problem of an MMO. I don't really expect to see any grand interesting political or faction stories happening when everything needs to stay the same, when cities can't be burned and pillages, when territories can't be conquered, when factions can't change alliances, etc. If it had been possible, then they would've probably thrown some warmongering general in the Alliance and have the Horde wtfroflnoobstomp the Alliance so we end up with the Horde conquering many new lands and maybe then fracturing and new factions rising.
    Last edited by Anarch the Subduer; 2013-07-02 at 08:37 PM.
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  5. #65
    You may not have noticed but there is absolutely positively no Sha in him. The Sha of Pride (The last Sha left) was killed before you even step foot into Ogrimmar. The mind of Y'shaarj may have been present within the divided Sha but his heart is simply raw Necrotic power. Garrosh was arrogant and impatient and doubted all of Thrall's decisions before. Even was the first to rush to Violence after an Eredar was summoned at the tournament.

    Quite simply he doesn't know when to quit, and right now like ever other moron who tries the "World Domination bit" he's writing a check too big for his wallet. Its either on his throne or on a Stormwind execution block.

    Besides do you really want to be behind someone who thinks its wise to cut your total forces down to a 1/6th of their former glory and take on a force 12Xs (per race) your size. Damn that's stupid, but if you want to still follow him go ahead and I'll strip your epics off your warm corpse on my Gnome.

  6. #66
    Warchief Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    It's more related to the limitations of an MMO. If the world had been more realistic, then we would have seen much bigger power and territory shifts and storyline development.

    In Warcraft I, the "Alliance" lost half of their land and many major lore characters and leaders died or got tortured. In Warcraft II, the Alliance pushed back the Horde and old alliances broke and new ones were made.

    In WC3 ... yeah, that's the big one. New factions were born, entire nations got exterminated, factions changed alliances several times. Entire factions had major overhauls and refound themselves in different ways, changing big parts of their culture to survive.

    So yeah, it's the problem of an MMO. I don't really expect to see any grand interesting political or faction stories happening when everything needs to stay the same, when cities can't be burned and pillages, when territories can't be conquered, when factions can't change alliances, etc. If it had been possible, then they would've probably thrown some warmongering general in the Alliance and have the Horde wtfroflnoobstomp the Alliance so we end up with the Horde conquering many new lands and maybe then fracturing and new factions rising.
    Maybe, but the most important defining thing in WC3 was not the nations exterminated, but the clear understanding that despite animosity, grudge and distrust, humans and orcs were not anymore the good and the bad, but just two different faces of a coin, and the great enemies threatening them became any kind of evil power unrelated with them.

    So it's normal that the moment the story run to a total war between them, that war will quickly run out, because in this kind of franchise the universal evil lose, not one of the two factions staying on the relative "good side". The total war and Garrosh bringing it has been a good excuse for move the story, it brought to the annilihation of Theramore and this civil war that is handled in a way that, for how I saw WoW years before, I thought would have been impossible to be properly put in the story, but most importantly, in the game.

    If is utter and visible destruction that you want to see and dramatic changes in terms of stability and politics, something could always happen when maybe some big bad would bring destruction on Azeroth (something that could be shown just for some time thanks to the phasing technology) and I think that some city could be even destroyed, or some new land conquered, but regardless Alliance and Horde, in the end, have to remain a constant with similar powers, same number of races inside and similar number of lands conquered, both because is the structure of the MMO balance the two playable factions, but also because this is the kind of direction the game took by WC3: two "good" but still different sides defending the world and themselves by the various destructive and evil threats.

    Yeah sounds a little boring always reading "the united efforts of the Horde and Alliance ensured the safety of the world", but at least, while the structure remained the same now (two factions that hate each other uniting against the big bad) at least Garrosh's storyline broke the status quo, and offered something different.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-07-02 at 09:02 PM.
    Darkspear never die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Stop the crazy semi-RP nonsense, and get some fresh air.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    The Sha of Pride would be the strongest entity in the universe if he had a link with the WoW forums...
    Quote Originally Posted by Speaknoevil View Post
    You are children on a playground drawing lines in the sand.

  7. #67
    Brewmaster Lei Shi's Avatar
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    The whole Hellscream line is a disgrace for the Horde, time to put him and all his relatives down for good.

  8. #68
    The Patient Vamandrac's Avatar
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    I honestly liked the new meaner/tougher Horde that he brought to the table, but he has taken it a tad too far. Time to bring in a leader that promotes peace and flower picking....

    Everything I say is absolute. If you disagree, you're a communist.

  9. #69
    Banned Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    The whole Hellscream line is a disgrace for the Horde, time to put him and all his relatives down for good.
    The ironic thing, the Gorehowl is one of the most iconic weapons of the horde since it began, with Grom whirling the axe as it whistled though the air and sliced though anything in his way. So iconic, that it killed an demi god, and the demon lord that corrupted the orcs race.

    Yet now... its reduced to this...



    In a weird way, seeing gorehowl like this just really marks the end of a line. If there was a way to carry on the hellscream line, the gorehowl would have survived as something iconic.
    Yet, Garrosh tainted it like he did himself, and even the bones of mannaroth that Thrall once held up as a symbol of the orcs freedom have become corrupted and fused to his body.

    Its like, everything Grom died for, the freedom of the orcs, all Thrall built for them, has literally turned into corrupted old god shit and destroyed any symbolism with it.

  10. #70
    Wouldn't be surprised if the desecration of Gorehowl is intentional symbolism for the corruption of the hellscream legacy.

  11. #71
    Banned Trassk's Avatar
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    well yeah. But at least with Grom, the axe was used as something in his final moments to kill the thing that corrupted his kind.

    This now.. its just a symbol of corruption

    So, axe used by grom to end corruption... only for the weapon to be corrupted used in the worst possible, irredeemably way.


    ....


    I'm actually more mournful about gorehowl then I am for Garrosh, really, an inanimate weapon.

  12. #72
    Maybe it'll get purified and tossed into a temporal vortex, explaining why Malcazaar had it. /shrug.

  13. #73
    Pandaren Monk Mukki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgePayne View Post
    Weren't groms allies mostly orcs tho, I would say put him in a group with goblins, belfs, undead and trolls and he would probably be just as racist towards the other horde races.
    Unlike Garrosh, however, Grom actually respected Thrall.

  14. #74
    Banned Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgePayne View Post
    Weren't groms allies mostly orcs tho, I would say put him in a group with goblins, belfs, undead and trolls and he would probably be just as racist towards the other horde races.
    Grom respected Thralls dream of freedom and salvation. His only complaint ever seemed to be not finding a way to satisfy his lust for fighting and conflict.

  15. #75
    Actually, re.: Gorehowl and the Sha'd Up axe... might not be one and the same. (thpoilerth)

    Some of the audio clips include people talking about Garrosh apparently leaving Gorehowl behind somewhere. Jaina's and Lor'Themar's sound files seem to indicate this.

    I think it shakes out this way:

    Lor'Themar - Look here.
    Jaina - Gorehowl.
    Lor'Themar - He left his weapon behind. This means he is completely unhinged.
    Jaina - News to no one, Regent Lord.

    Plus Garrosh's fight info refers to a 'new weapon.'

    Also there are some differences in the haft binding, head, and blade.




    So Gorehowl likely endures... maybe even it will be an element in Hellscream's end, or a reward to his slayer. Having absorbed the deaths of so many powerful entities, it will only become stronger...
    Last edited by Golden Yak; 2013-07-02 at 10:49 PM.

  16. #76
    Interesting. Maybe the corrupted gorehowl is a mimic of the original and not the axe itself.

  17. #77
    The Patient alexday14's Avatar
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    Grom Hellscream left a legacy so large that it overshadowed the boy Garrosh. After hearing of the redemption of his father, the young Hellscream takes to the Horde and quickly and easily surpasses himself to a powerful political position as the son of Grom.

    Thrall tries his hardest to push Garrosh in the right direction to becoming an intelligent and powerful figurehead, with the help of people like Varok Saurfang, Eitrigg, Carine Bloodhoof and Vol'jin. Garrosh had already captured the hearts and minds of the people with his feats of war in Northrend. He was already meeting some of the criteria to becoming what Thrall wanted him to. But he had fundemental flaws in his personality, much like his father, flaws that Thrall thought he could iron out.

    Thrall was likely grooming young Hellscream to succeed him as Warchief, but he was most certainly not ready. When the time came when it was no longer a choice that could be made years later, Thrall had to pick a viable new leader of his creation, the new Horde. Dranosh was dead, Varok and Eitrigg were too old. Both Cairne, Baine, Vol'jin and the Regent Lord were not Orcs, and it was unlikely a non-Orcish warchief would be well received among the vast majority of the Horde. (which were Orcs). Rexxar would likely refuse the position and Nazgrel had very similar flaws, as a leader, that Garrosh did. Garrosh stood out among other possible people to lead in Thrall's stead. He was a hero to the people, the son of a great Orc figurehead and he was a glorious warrior. The oppertunity to give him the chance to lead, with the help of Thrall's most trusted allies and friends, could likely help him along the road to gaining leader qualities.

    After Garrosh's position was made permanent, and he had essentially destroyed his relations with both the Darkspear leader Vol'jin and the Bloodhoof leader, Baine. Garrosh isn't unintelligent, but he isn't a clear thinker either. The situation caused by pushing two of the Horde's greatest allies away from him likely frustrated him, causing him to paste the blame onto them. Garrosh harbours a resentment for the Alliance, causing distrust between him and the (in his mind, at least) weak Elves of the Horde. The lack of reason for Garrosh to want to preserve the lives of other Horde races likely began to spur hatred for him among them.

    Discovering the new continent of Pandaria, and eventually, the secrets it hides, gave Garrosh the oppertunity to prove himself as leader material. In his mind, he has a legacy to live up to. One as a hero to the Orcs, like his father was. Using all at his disposal, Garrosh sought to create a world where his people alone reigned supreme. A world he came so dangerously close to making a reality.

    The entire time, the thought of living up to his father's legacy so ironically accurate.

    People may hate Garrosh, but I love him. I love his story and I love his development.

    Thank you Blizzard for creating a character I care about. A character I love to hate. Thank you for Garrosh Hellscream.


    High Overlord Saurfang: "I won't let you take us down that dark path again, young Hellscream. I'll kill you myself before that day comes..."
    Garrosh Hellscream:"Lol wanna bet"

  18. #78
    Pandaren Monk Redpanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Yak View Post
    If he'd been slightly more inclusive and less racist, but still totally bent on industry, exploitation of resources, acquiring ancient weaponry, creating awesome war-beasts with stolen flesh-shaping magic, and harnessing dark powers, I'd be 100% on board with Garrosh.

    you must not like progressing
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    People doing below 200k dps? Ain't nobody got time for that.
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    Why? Why should content be gated behind skill?
    14/14h and finally done

  19. #79
    Herald of the Titans T Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    He's no orc. He's a bastard with no honour.
    He is an Orc and from what I can see he is doing everything in an Orc's nature. I can guarantee when he dies the war between horde and alliance will still be there. Nothing will change by killing him.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Redrun View Post
    you must not like progressing
    Everything I talked about was totally progression. Kick-ass progression.

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