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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Phasma View Post
    I have a feeling Arthas, Illidan, and Turalyon would disagree with you. The stories of these three put the Horde's lore to shame.

    or at least Turalyon would disagree with you if he could be found... next expansion... hint hint...
    Arthas left the Alliance before WoW.
    Turalyon disappeared off the map completely. We have yet to see him in-game, or find out what happened to him. He became a non-entity even before Arthas betrayed us.
    The Alliance of Lordaeron Arthas and Turalyon were a part of was *technically* a different political entity than the New Alliance today. Though I'll concede I'm nitpicking there.
    Illidan was never part of any Alliance. Ever.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynneiah View Post
    Arthas left the Alliance before WoW.
    Turalyon disappeared off the map completely. We have yet to see him in-game, or find out what happened to him. He became a non-entity even before Arthas betrayed us.
    The Alliance of Lordaeron Arthas and Turalyon were a part of was *technically* a different political entity than the New Alliance today. Though I'll concede I'm nitpicking there.
    Illidan was never part of any Alliance. Ever.
    Illidan was a night elf and is the brother of Malfurion (oh, don't remember that guy, do we?). Arthas left the Alliance? That's like saying Garrosh left the Horde.

    Edit: I am honestly not seeing the faction bias in this game. Everyone is just looking at the faction's story that interests them the most and choosing not to recognize the other faction's story at all. I think Blizzard has been pretty balanced with the lore so far.
    Last edited by Phasma; 2013-07-02 at 06:43 PM.

  3. #23
    Note how I said Arthas left the Alliance *before WoW*. Garrosh has been part of the Horde in WoW from the moment Thrall picked him up until about now-ish. Arthas was sitting his arse on his frozen chair years before most current heroes were introduced.

    And Illidan can be all the Night Elf he pleases, that doesn't make him part of the Alliance any more than it makes king Rastakhan part of the Horde. He fled Azeroth and went and did his own thing in Outland before the Night Elves even became part of the New Alliance.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynneiah View Post
    Note how I said Arthas left the Alliance *before WoW*. Garrosh has been part of the Horde in WoW from the moment Thrall picked him up until about now-ish. Arthas was sitting his arse on his frozen chair years before most current heroes were introduced.

    And Illidan can be all the Night Elf he pleases, that doesn't make him part of the Alliance any more than it makes king Rastakhan part of the Horde. He fled Azeroth and went and did his own thing in Outland before the Night Elves even became part of the New Alliance.
    I'm trying to show people that there are plenty of characters that have backgrounds in both factions that have been portrayed in the game. I'm not saying every character has to be currently aligned with a faction to represent it. When you think of a human or night elf, Alliance comes to mind. When you think of an orc or undead, Horde comes to mind.

    When it comes to important people that are currently aligned and represent the Alliance, there are still plenty of those. You don't think Anduin Wrynn is going to play a big role in the future? What about Moira Thaurissan? Again, it's people deliberately choosing not to recognize lore that exists in the game. There is no faction bias.
    Last edited by Phasma; 2013-07-02 at 07:05 PM.

  5. #25
    Pandaren Monk Xiphan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phasma View Post
    Illidan was a night elf and is the brother of Malfurion (oh, don't remember that guy, do we?). Arthas left the Alliance? That's like saying Garrosh left the Horde.

    Edit: I am honestly not seeing the faction bias in this game. Everyone is just looking at the faction's story that interests them the most and choosing not to recognize the other faction's story at all. I think Blizzard has been pretty balanced with the lore so far.
    Illidan was banished from Night Elven society before they became a member of the current Alliance. He's not affiliated with them.

  6. #26
    The warcraft movie is going to be from the Alliance point of view. Should us pro horde people be shouting "alliance favoritism"?

  7. #27
    One thing I have noticed is that the horde seem to be losing A LOT of gunships, as opposed to the alliance losing only 1 to my knowledge. Though overall the horde see's alot more facetime than the alliance does.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H3-N9zoI5c Amazing video of 60+ devilsaurs raiding Undercity!


    My God, what a horrible creation. People seeing what they want? Thank God they tried to shy away from that. I know it pisses me off when I'm in an heroic raid, yet in the back of my head all I can think is 'some casual player is playing a heroic dungeon and not wiping.' -Vodkarn

  8. #28
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    Eh, not saying the Alliance doesn't deserve a better quality of storytelling, but having the faction war be entirely mirrored would be pretty bad for the plot in general. Garrosh needed wins and victories under his belt to make him a formidable villain for us all to kill in the end; the Horde only benefited from it by proxy.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Xiphan View Post
    Illidan was banished from Night Elven society before they became a member of the current Alliance. He's not affiliated with them.
    Even though he wasn't part of the Alliance, he still has ties to it. The Stormrage name directly links him to the Alliance. If there was an orc that mirrored Illidan's background that had the name "Hellscream" or "Doomhammer", you would consider him Horde. Don't lie.
    Last edited by Phasma; 2013-07-02 at 07:22 PM.

  10. #30
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    I think I burned myself out during Cata with bias discussions. I don't think I needed to be as zealous about it as I was. I think the problem is the back and forth nature of the argument as you when you feel the faction you personally enjoy more has gotten the shaft some how you tend to want to make it clear.

    Tbh these days when I want to discuss the story I try when possible to not directly compare instances. 5.3 being a good example. You do not have to compare both factions to make a point about the flaws of the Alliance's questline. Thus you avoid the whole "bias" argument and instead simply focus on the actual issue itself.

    I don't think there is an actual bias. I just think they've not been as good at presenting the Alliance story, it doesn't mean though that they prefer one faction.

  11. #31
    The Horde is the one who drops bombs on unsuspecting cities.

  12. #32
    Pandaren Monk Xiphan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phasma View Post
    Even though he wasn't part of the Alliance, he still has ties to it. The Stormrage name directly links him to the Alliance. If there was an orc that mirrored Illidan's background that had the name "Hellscream" or "Doomhammer", you would consider him Horde. Don't lie.
    If they were banished from Orcish society and had no desire to return before the New Horde was even formed, later briefly affiliating themselves with the Burning Legion before deciding to just watch their own back exclusively, sending forces to fight the Horde and Alliance expeditions into Outland, I wouldn't consider them part of the Horde just because of a family name, no. I'd have no reason to.

  13. #33
    Herald of the Titans Lemposs's Avatar
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    Seems faction imbalance/bias is the big thing now... Guess we can't just whine and moan about actaul mathematical/logical class balance, now we have to go at the one thing that is virtually impossible to "balance", unless of course we should have completly bland completly identical quests, cities, racials etc.. This is getting on the level of just trying to hard to find any flaw to riff on.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordKain View Post
    The warcraft movie is going to be from the Alliance point of view. Should us pro horde people be shouting "alliance favoritism"?
    I would like to see it from multiple views, not just one.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  15. #35
    Gotta love some Allie tears. Always delicious.

  16. #36
    People may not have argued about lore and factions back then, but they did still argue...just about different things.

    For Vanilla it was pvp and the pally v shammy deal. In TBC and Wrath it was again pvp, in Wrath it being largely focused on the new EMfH racial given to humans.

    Cata like the OP said was where the whole faction bias argument began with earnest after the Alliance playerbase became enraged at what Blizzard expected them to be satisfied with BEFORE they came out and admitted that they screwed up and ran out of time. That resulted in two things.

    1)Players began taking a microscope to previous expansions.

    2)It jaded the expectations of the Alliance playerbase. Being told that you were going to have a lose a major town in a major way to start the next xpac didn't help.
    STRESS
    The confusion caused when one's mind
    overrides the body's basic
    desire to choke the living shit out of
    some jerk who desperately needs it

  17. #37
    This was a nice read. I will say this however....

    The Horde will always be more interesting than the Alliance from a lore perspective. Contrary to what most Horde Sympathizers believe I believe at their heart they are Villains. The Alliance seem to only fight in self defense while the Horde mindset has always been conquest (excluding Thrall's dream of Peace.)

    Horde = Savage Inglorious Bastards.
    Alliance = Virtuous Righteous Knights.


    What is more interesting a fight between two Super Villains or a Classic Good versus evil fight. In Cata the Horde were not very super in the least, in fact most of all their victories were opportunistic cheap shots.

    As Alliance (for me at least) I was able to resolve it which didn't happen as much as I would have liked in Cata if at all. Instead of shutting down Horde Shredders Killing all of the living Trees in Ashenvale I stood by and saw all my previous efforts go up in smoke while the story dialogue forced me to walk away.

    As a Horde I had to listen to self righteous Warlocks and plague throwers use the dirtiest tactics in the book, I felt like a Henchman rather than a Hero or a Villain. Even massacring a Furblog Village with an Alliance disguise on just to deceive them into TRUSTING the Horde. Even for by Villain standards that is despicable.

    Pandaria was a straight foward fight on even ground however and struggled to remain so. I still find it funny that most Horde don't like Taran Zu even though he turned out to be absolutly right. If the Horde and Garrosh's men were immediatly kicked out of the Vale then maybe they wouldn't have found the Heart in the first place. But.... True to the moral of the last quests on the Wandering Isle; If you truly want to be cured of the Thorn in your side.... Strap it with dynamite and blow the crap out of it. So the Vale is destroyed but the festering corruption is exposed. Thus the Horde fulfills it duty of creating conflict by destroying everything and the Alliance resolves the conflict by playing clean up. The biased is still unbalanced but only through misunderstanding of the differences between parties, the mortal conflict meanwhile is resolved.

    Just my two cents.

  18. #38
    Honestly i care about WARCRAFT lore, is it good or is it harmful to the game.

    I don't care is it about "horde" or "alliance" or whatever faction...

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksej89 View Post
    Honestly i care about WARCRAFT lore, is it good or is it harmful to the game.

    I don't care is it about "horde" or "alliance" or whatever faction...
    I agree (10 Chars)

  20. #40
    I am Murloc! Peaky Blinder's Avatar
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    I honestly dont give a fuck if the next xpac had the allies kicking my horde ass all over the map as long as the story was well written.

    You dont need to have victories to make your factions story interesting you just need to have an engaging story with a great payoff be that payoff is a epic win or a crushing defeat.

    Something that makes you feel emotions is interesting to me even if it makes me feel angry, upset, euphoric, victorious or defeated.

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