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  1. #41
    The Lightbringer Auxis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by devilswim13 View Post
    I agree with this. I'm pure Horde, and I remember watching the MoP intro that was very pro-Alliance and just being like wtf?!? haha
    Do you mean the cinematic or the Jade Forest opening questline?

    Regardless, I don't see how either of those are biased.
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  2. #42
    TL;DR?

    Anyways, faction bias is okay as long as it doesn't affect gameplay (see: racials)

  3. #43
    Bloodsail Admiral Master Jinora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reyzzz View Post
    TL;DR?

    Anyways, faction bias is okay as long as it doesn't affect gameplay (see: racials)
    I always hate the TL;DR stuff, People comment on articles and say 'I didn't read it. So I'll make my post based on the title.'
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  4. #44
    A good post.

    I must admit faction pride has always been around (pallies vs shammies in classic, dwarf fear ward making PvE easy, racials in pvp etc) but the biggest mistake imo was focusing the story around Horde vs Alliance.

    During Cata I posted in many threads that the Alliance will win the war started in Cata, nobody took me seriously then.

    Now here we are, MOP is a massive pro-Alliance expansion in terms of how the war is going. Horde are getting our butts kicked all over the shop, our airship goes down in seconds same as the previous two in Cataclysm, from then on we are barely hanging on for survival.

    Then we have 5.1, the fleet arrives and builds a "Horde" base seemingly swarming with more alliance soldiers & alliance air units than Horde. (While Lions landing has those annoying gryphons dismounting us every 5 seconds, and the nearest horde units are miles away down the beach)

    Our warchief acts like a total knob and we are swapping from one minute helping him out, to get the Divine Bell to suddenly helping Anduin kill our own troops.

    yet the biggest kick in the teeth is fighting our own faction in 5.3 and teaming up with our mortal enemy for multiple expansions for them to assault one of our racial capitals for the second time in wow's lifetime.

    Horde is in a bad place right now, feels like our characters exist to be corrupted into villains and raid bosses so the alliance can feel like heroes. Just for once I want the Alliance (not just some ex alliance commander) to get down and dirty and play the villain so we can save them for a change.
    Last edited by Briga; 2013-07-03 at 08:50 AM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Briga View Post
    A good post.

    I must admit faction pride has always been around (pallies vs shammies in classic, dwarf fear ward making PvE easy, racials in pvp etc) but the biggest mistake imo was focusing the story around Horde vs Alliance.

    During Cata I posted in many threads that the Alliance will win the war started in Cata, nobody took me seriously then.

    Now here we are, MOP is a massive pro-Alliance expansion in terms of how the war is going. Horde are getting our butts kicked all over the shop, our airship goes down in seconds same as the previous two in Cataclysm, from then on we are barely hanging on for survival.

    Then we have 5.1, the fleet arrives and builds a "Horde" base seemingly swarming with more alliance soldiers & alliance air units than Horde. (While Lions landing has those annoying gryphons dismounting us every 5 seconds, and the nearest horde units are miles away down the beach)

    Our warchief acts like a total knob and we are swapping from one minute helping him out, to get the Divine Bell to suddenly helping Anduin kill our own troops.

    yet the biggest kick in the teeth is fighting our own faction in 5.3 and teaming up with our mortal enemy for multiple expansions for them to assault one of our racial capitals for the second time in wow's lifetime.

    Horde is in a bad place right now, feels like our characters exist to be corrupted into villains and raid bosses so the alliance can feel like heroes. Just for once I want the Alliance (not just some ex alliance commander) to get down and dirty and play the villain so we can save them for a change.
    At least Horde have a story. Alliance got 20 seconds with a mechanical cat while we sit around waiting for something to happen. Even though the Horde might be "losing" for once, the story is still all about them fighting amongst themselves while the Alliance are mere bystanders.

    Also, the OP missed something else at the start of Cataclysm; with parallels to the start of TBC we again gained some refugees (this time from a Horde victory!), while Horde gained a region.

  6. #46
    I'd also like to note that 5.3 is, by far, the dullest patch of the expansion. I mean, farm 600 pieces of useless crap every week? Really Blizz? That's your idea of engaging story telling? Reminds me of the AQ stuff you had to gather, only that had a vague sense of progression with the whole 'we have collected X out of Y of this particular piece of junk' thing.

    Blizz could've done so much with the story of this patch, on both sides, and they kinda threw it all in the wind.

  7. #47
    I think the main problems really started in Cataclysm, right from the start with the way Blizzard handled the Worgen and Goblins.

    While both races had interesting starting zones, their presence in the actual world was ridiculously unbalanced. Goblins got a whole zone dedicated to them, and a large, fleshed out area in Orgrimmar, complete with profession trainers and an auction house. The Worgen got a tree tucked away in the corner of Darnassus with a couple of class trainers, while their leader sat on an entirely different continent doing nothing for the whole expansion. Not to mention that the Worgen are scarcely mentioned in the revamped world, and are basically treated as Night Elves in Darkshore, right after completing their whole "Worgen pride" starting zone.

    But there were also a lot of problems with the revamped questlines in general. The Horde quests often ended with you doing some sort of super soldier operation, which would result in victory for your faction. The Alliance quests, even when they were "victorious", usually ended with a retreat, or a "We just barely lived through that" scenario (see: Ashenvale, Stonetalon, the Andorhal questline in Western Plaguelands, Barrens, etc.).

    I mean, Andorhal was just plain stupid from the Alliance side. You spend time fighting off the scourge and the Forsaken, and after witnessing a fairly epic event between Koltira and Thassarian, the Val'kyr just randomly show up and ruin everything. And the questline ends there, with " I watched your victory from below. Well-fought, but ultimately, it was for naught. The val'kyr and the Forsaken press on; soon, they will overtake us. We have lost Andorhal. ". So basically, everything I just did was for absolutely nothing? Wonderful!

    Also, the fact that Malfurion was totally cool with allying with the very people that were currently destroying the forests he was sworn to protect. Not even a mention of the fact that these are the same people that struck down Cenarius. I mean, is a little recognition of this stuff too much for ask for? Even just a little flavor text at some point?

    But overall, while the Horde leaders were beginning to argue with each other and weave a web of plots and conflicts, the Alliance leaders literally did nothing. Varian was supposed to lead the charge into the Twilight Highlands, but that was removed in favor of a long dead joke. The three dwarves had a little story going into Cataclysm, but there were no developments there, while Magni just sat in stone the whole expansion. Tyrande had no part in protecting the forest of her people, despite a whole content patch involving the Night Elves, and Mekkatorque, Greymane, and Velen did nothing at all.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    At least us Horde pays it's workers.
    oww snap! nice burn there towards us.

  9. #49
    ... does it really matter?

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Lastlivingsoul View Post
    This was a nice read. I will say this however....

    The Horde will always be more interesting than the Alliance from a lore perspective. Contrary to what most Horde Sympathizers believe I believe at their heart they are Villains. The Alliance seem to only fight in self defense while the Horde mindset has always been conquest (excluding Thrall's dream of Peace.)

    Horde = Savage Inglorious Bastards.
    Alliance = Virtuous Righteous Knights.
    Why do you think villains are inherently more interesting then heroes ? Don't you think it's a matter of personal taste ?
    I am always amazed when alliance player say in the the forums that horde is so much more interesting because it has more unusual races and are more savage and aggressive... If someone thinks that those traits are more interesting then why did he chose alliance in the first place ?
    I think there are a lot of players who simply prefer classic fantasy races and and lawful good knights as rulers and those folks play alliance.

    It seems to me that many of the "horde bias" posters actually just chose the wrong side for their tastes and now instead of switching sides they try to remodel the alliance into horde 1.1.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    I rolled Horde in Vanilla when Horde were the good guys, Stormwind was being ruled by a Dragon at the time and the rest of the Alliance was finding it's feet in a new world.
    Horde never have been the good guys, no matter how you try to convice yourself.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I always hate the TL;DR stuff, People comment on articles and say 'I didn't read it. So I'll make my post based on the title.'
    Yeah because forcing people to read a short story with negative premise is a very good way to get them to agree with you.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Reyzzz View Post
    Yeah because forcing people to read a short story with negative premise is a very good way to get them to agree with you.
    Nobody is forcing anyone to read anything. But commenting on something you know nothing about (in this case, a text you haven't read) is both very stupid and obnoxious to do.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynneiah View Post
    Nobody is forcing anyone to read anything. But commenting on something you know nothing about (in this case, a text you haven't read) is both very stupid and obnoxious to do.
    I commented on the title alone, as I am allowed to do. Don't rant if you aren't ready to accept negative posts, negativity attracts negativity you see. Also feeling contempt towards posters isn't a good way gain you any respect and/or likeminded opinions.

  15. #55
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    ... does it really matter?
    When the quality of the story content is determined by which faction you choose, yes. It affects the fun of the game for the people who enjoy the story.
    But like I said originally I don't feel there is a bias. But that's not to say the quality of the story couldn't be better. This goes for both sides, 5.3 is probably the best example of a recent lapse in quality for one side.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Reyzzz View Post
    I commented on the title alone, as I am allowed to do. Don't rant if you aren't ready to accept negative posts, negativity attracts negativity you see. Also feeling contempt towards posters isn't a good way gain you any respect and/or likeminded opinions.
    Altho I am not the person your reacted towards: Yes you are allowed to react as you like. That is everyones right. But you do realise how ignorant you come off then right? So you see a title of a book, and think: Oh its about XYZ...

    Bit ignorant to just assume you are right and/or have a VALID opinion about what the OP wrote without reading his post.

    Also it seems to be "very cool" to state: TL;DR

    Apart from using this when you're trolling - it is in fact - a very disrespectful thing to say.

    Note that the only reason you're are now being "whipped", is that you actually stated "TL;DR". Although it could have been an honest statement. I think (advice) that you would be better off just not saying that at all. You post will either get ignored for not matching the OP's post at all (very likely). Or you will get someone to state that you probably didn't understand the OP's message.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    I never really got why Alliance players were so naffed off with Escalation to begin with or the stuff in Cata for that matter. I rolled Horde in Vanilla when Horde were the good guys, Stormwind was being ruled by a Dragon at the time and the rest of the Alliance was finding it's feet in a new world. The Horde was a rag tag group of exiles struggling to establish itself and putting the old Horde to bed (BRM). We were a force for good, whilst the Alliance was still piecing itself together.

    Not many Horde players like Garrosh or where the Horde has gone since Cata, that's why we are killing him. To me I've never wanted to be the bad guy and with the exception of Jade Forest I really didn't even know I was. All I ever did when questing in MoP was run around helping people but it turns out somewhere along the way I've accidentally invaded Pandaria.

    Is the Alliance questing a completely different universe? From what I read on these forums it sounds like I've been raping and pillaging my way round the island.

    Beyond my confusion though, whilst Escalation and Siege might feel like Horde lore it's just as alien to anyone who liked what the Horde used to be. Watching your faction leader take your faction's identity away from you wasn't a good feeling for me, killing NPC's you had liked isn't all that great either. The Alliance are a united front ready to crush Garrosh's True Horde, the Horde itself is back to being refugees fighting for an uncertain future. I play an Orc for god's sake! I used to be cool! Now it turns out all my npc brethren have been closet fascists this entire time.....

    So why on Earth Alliance players are so jealous that I got to wake up one day and suddenly be told I'm the bad guy I honestly have no clue.
    Amazingly apropos, and well stated. Thank you.

    Many Alliance players feel that the attention the Horde is getting is actually something we players appreciate. It isn't. CDev is putting us through the wringer. It's a good story, I'll give them that, but it is also heart-wrenching for anyone who believed in what the old Horde stood for.

    Imagine for a moment if the "story love" the Alliance received consisted of: Varian has snapped and killed Moira for attempting her uprising in Ironforge, and has placed the entire city under marshal law. One of Varian's goons has shattered the diamond-Magni, killing him. The Gnomes have fled Ironforge and now are a scattered people. Velen has become increasingly distrustful of the darkened nature of the Worgen, and he is attempting to leverage his influence to oppose involvement in the Alliance. The Night Elves are engaged in a violent, internal war, with battle lines drawn between those pro- and anti-Highborne -- Magi versus Druids. Human commanders and generals are making deals with the Defias Brotherhood to attempt to overthrow Varian. Anduin is conflicted, caught between his love for his father and his love of peace.

    Interesting story bits, sure... but would you feel good about playing through any of it? It's depressing stuff.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    At least Horde have a story. Alliance got 20 seconds with a mechanical cat while we sit around waiting for something to happen. Even though the Horde might be "losing" for once, the story is still all about them fighting amongst themselves while the Alliance are mere bystanders.

    Also, the OP missed something else at the start of Cataclysm; with parallels to the start of TBC we again gained some refugees (this time from a Horde victory!), while Horde gained a region.
    On the subject of 5.3 I agree the alliance could have been given more content than they did. Have their own faction to turn in the materials to rather than helping Vol'jin (lets call it "SI:7 Operation Durotar" or something) and watching and laughing at horde killing its own.

    The issue of making the faction leader the raid boss that both sides need to fight is what is causing the problem of railroading both into the same content. Despite being at each other's throats for the past 3 expansions somehow we have to work together at last?

    On a side note my main is an orc, nothing feels more wrong than teaming up with the alliance and other races against your own people.

    The sooner we get past this stupid re-done WC3 Orc redemption story the better, we didn't need the horde to be gutted out to have it again.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    You post will either get ignored for not matching the OP's post at all (very likely). Or you will get someone to state that you probably didn't understand the OP's message.
    Both are fine to me, I stated my opinion on the topic. I don't care about other people's opinions about my opinion, only about the topic. Which is why I posted, so I could follow the thread.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Reyzzz View Post
    I don't care about other people's opinions about my opinion, only about the topic. Which is why I posted, so I could follow the thread.
    I am not trying to nitpick here and I will leave you alone after my post, but don't you think its a bit "weird" you stating that? You "care" about the topic, yet you didn't read it? And the only reason you posted was to follow the thread? Couldn't you just post that you want to follow the thread you haven't read instead? I am sure that will make a lot of sense to everyone

    Ok joking aside, I understand where you're coming from I just don't agree and that is fine on all accounts. Have a nice day!

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