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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by jbombard View Post
    Did you raid in vanilla? You had tons of people with "I don't have a brain mode on" and it seemed like somebody was always afk. Trying to get 40 people to do anything was like herding sheep. The boss mechanics themselves weren't terribly difficult, people simply had less tools to work with.
    I don't understand, what does ''being afk'' has to do with what I was saying?

    Also, - yes, I did raid in Vanilla, but only up until BWL, sadly I couldn't do AQ.
    (also, not sure if you noticed, but I wasn't ONLY speaking of Vanilla, but also of TBC - are you implying that Kael/Vashj, for example, were easy at the time?)

  2. #202
    Just because the game was hard for you back in Vanilla/BC doesn't mean it as hard for everyone

    WoW was never, ever hard (barring the challenging dungeons/raids, which is a whole 'nother beast, and they've only been amped up since). Leveling was tedious (and doable 1-60 and 1-70 completely solo). Keys/attunements were tedious. Reputation farms were tedious.

    Sure, there was the oddball "group quest" that, yeah, you'd get fucked if you tried to solo (duh? not HARD to figure out), or the oddball "solo challenge" type quests (Hunter bow/staff and the Benediction/Anathema), but those were too few and far between to be able generalize the whole game as hard.

    TEDIOUS DOES NOT EQUAL HARD, people. It. Doesn't.

    It means boring.

    Dailies, in their current iteration (and abundance), are also tedious. Do you really wanna tell me that they're hard?

    Edit: Wanna make WoW hard again?

    Ban MMO-Champ and any WoW related "infoz" site.

    Ban YouTube videos of boss kills (specifically, the FatBoss-esque strategy guides).

    Get rid of DBM, BigWigs, and any "nicety" type add-ons.

    (or, since none of those would actually work, limit your own personal usage of these to 0 [and try to convince your guildies to do the same, without them laughing at you])

    No more PTR testing, and if a class is broke in Patch 5.4, it stays broke until "Patch 5.4.2".
    Last edited by Spazzeh; 2013-07-03 at 05:41 AM.

  3. #203
    there were still info sites back in classic, allakhazam for example had some strategies and complete loot lists.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Heathy View Post
    there were still info sites back in classic, allakhazam for example had some strategies and complete loot lists.
    And?

    Take them all away, insta-hard-game.

    I did say "and any WoW infoz site", yeah?

    I wasn't making a comparison between now and then. Still, take them ALL away. Game = harder.

  5. #205
    I am still in hope of seeing a form of monster power in WoW as I am all for select your own difficulty. It would be very interesting for instances (only available to premades I guess?) and out in the open world. Sadly, it is too easily exploited and I shan't have my fun.

  6. #206
    because the internet exists it won't make any difference, when one team figures out a good strat they'll find somewhere to post it.

  7. #207
    The game has such a wide range of difficulties. If you want hard content, it is there, you have to choose to do it. If the hardest content available isn't challenging enough for you that the game doesn't make you feel fulfilled then you're in a small minority and WoW just probably isn't the game for you.


    I'll stand by my thoughts that the harder content already exists and 99% of the people that don't do it either aren't capable or don't want to do it and very few genuinely find it not challenging.

  8. #208
    Warchief FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soletaken View Post
    Create 'hard-mode' servers, or whatever name you want to give them.

    Flat 150% increase in mob strength
    50% + in required experience per level
    No LFG or LFR
    No crossrealm features of any kind
    Weak, slow spawning guards
    Flying mounts have a 10 second cast time and require to be out of pvp combat for 2 minutes
    No transfer services of any kind, must level up from beginning if start on server
    No badges / points / valor of any kind
    Raiding is 25 man only
    +150% strength? Health or damage? If damage, then they one-shot everything.. Won't work..
    +50% xp required doesn't make it harder, only more tedious..
    Weaker and slower guards makes it easier, NOT harder..
    Flying change is rediculous..
    No transfer server, already exist.. Those servers are labelled "New players"..
    No badged etc will bloat loot tables even more than they already are.. Won't make the game harder, only more frustrating, that your loot never drops..
    Only 25man raiding, will kill the server.. The majority today prefer 10man..

    Basically, the only good suggestions in your lst is the CrossRealm/LFG/LFR removal...

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by soletaken View Post
    Create 'hard-mode' servers, or whatever name you want to give them.

    Flat 150% increase in mob strength
    50% + in required experience per level
    No LFG or LFR
    No crossrealm features of any kind
    Weak, slow spawning guards
    Flying mounts have a 10 second cast time and require to be out of pvp combat for 2 minutes
    No transfer services of any kind, must level up from beginning if start on server
    No badges / points / valor of any kind
    Raiding is 25 man only
    Harder mobs would make it harder, sort of... Things die insanely fast, on my Monk I'm leveling I pull 4+ mobs and don't drop under 80%, doubt it would make it harder.

    More xp =/= harder. Just longer. You're confusing time consuming with difficult.

    Again, no LFR/LFR makes it longer, not harder. Difficulty of the dungeons would be the same, would just be harder to find people to do them.

    No crossrealm would make it easier, all crossrealm does is make farming/leveling harder because you have more people to fight for mobs.

    Guards are already irrelevant, they die in like 3 hits.

    How would increase cast on flying mounts make it harder...? Part of PvP is running away, believe it or not, if you know you can't win. All that's doing is making it so you die automatically with no hope of escaping at all.

    There would only be 1 of these servers, transfers would be unnecessary.

    All gear would drop? Again, that doesn't make it hard, just makes it time consuming to get the items you need. You're again confusing difficulty with time sink.

    25man raiding, eh, doesn't matter. 25 man isn't harder, just more of a hassle to find people since you need more than twice as many. I'll let you have this though, since your other ideas are kind of pointless.


    Anyway, there's no real need to make it harder. People need to realize, WoW was never hard to begin with. People were just bad at it, they've improved, it got easier. But WoW was never hard, vanilla was a massive grind fest, TBC was fun but not really difficult, and people have been saying it's been getting easier since TBC. Not too sure why people think that, it's the same as always. Moving out of fire was never hard, it's just now people are completely used to it so the mechanic is no longer interesting.

  10. #210
    Set all main combat mechanics back to WotLK era.
    Remove those 150+ unnecesary flight travel paths, make people actually go there on foot.
    Add mobs to roads, make areas with multiple routes.
    Limit or completely remove flying (grantee, it is cool but made the game WAY too much smaller, ruined the epic feel of actually hiking thers.
    Make Lich King fight 5x harder (by that I dont just mean numbers, really intense strategy too)
    Add hardcore servers.
    Actually significant death penalties for all servers, not just durability loss (ie, lose some money)

  11. #211
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    1. Reduce the xp you get for quests to 10% of what you get today to greatly slow the leveling process down. Make it required to do all the current leveling dungeons at least once before you can move on to the next questing zone.
    2. Get rid of all tier gear bonuses.
    3. Bring back the 43+ level talent trees (should be one talent for each level) with even more branching to make each talent/class unique.
    4. Get rid of “all classes do same dps” concept and bring back the old utility classes.
    5. Add a 34 man raid type where the raid must consist of one of every class/talent to enter.
    6. Get rid of flying and portals.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Drii View Post
    I'd leave the hardest part of the game as is more or less (heroic raiding, challenge modes, brawler's guild)

    And I'd spread the gameplay challenges quite a bit more evenly / progressively in the 99% of content that's left.

    Because at the moment the difficulty of the 1% of the game content is just a veil and a easy cop-out for 99% of it being a snorefest.
    Brawler's Guild, to me, is a good idea with a horrible execution. Blizzard assumes everyone plays at least one dps spec, as only they are viable in later bosses when you need to burn fast. However, there are players (like me for example) who tank and heal only. I ditched all my dps specs and have very little will to gear them because I don't find dps as fun. But sadly, Brawler bosses put more emphasis on enrage timers than actual tactics. Now, I know that without tight enrages people would have to wait even more, and I ask - why not phase it out? I get that its cool to have a crowd, but not cool enough to make me wait 15-20 minutes for a chance to fight 1-2 minutes. At least make more arenas so it goes faster.

    I did the first 7 or so ranks with my blood DK, then I stopped because I lacked the dps to finish off bosses, and quit. I have no will to learn a dps spec/class just for Brawler's, especially as I won't ever play it otherwise. Right now I find Brawler's Guild a disgrace, and the only thing I regret is the 30k I spent on the invitation for it. Worst gold decision I made in the game.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel Tyrael View Post
    And you proved that it wasn't because you said I was bad....

    right.

    Again, tell me how it was harder when you didn't have

    Flying in Azeroth
    Reputation gains were much harder
    Attunements
    Only one mode of raiding
    Gear was much harder to come by
    Leveling professions / alts were much more intense and time consuming
    No LFR
    actual talents which people claimed to be ''cookie cutter'', yet the random joe somehow fucked them up pretty bad

    Oh, by the way, I just played this game from Vanilla to WotLK in a server first guild but hey, surely I was bad.

    So again, thanks for enlightening all of us with that massive proof that the game was easier back then.
    none of this makes the game harder it simply gives artificial difficulty in the form of a time sink

    walking in azeroth maybe made you more liable to getting pvped but in reality it was simply in place to make you spend countless hours walking/mounted to your destination

    rep grinding once again is not hard, an idiot can do it

    attunements is a huge grind

    leveling alts a huge grind and was simply used for their professions (professions: hard grind)

    lfr does not make the game easier, if you wanted to raid day 1 there was no LFR, LFR comes out a week after the raids do.

    gear being much harder to come by was simply a time sink to get you to grind the content more often, redoing the same mechanic 100x over doesn't make it harder the next time

    cookie cutter talents were the only thing that made the game less accessible but any idiot could go onto the internet and look what was the highest dps gain
    but i do agree the new talent system is kind of lame, i like the idea of actives but dislike the lack of passives.


    you seem to be really pompous but all of your reasons aren't actual difficulty. difficulty is defined by something that is hard to comprehend or accomplish. accomplishing leveling or grinding professions isn't difficult, it's simply an annoyance only people with free time would be allowed, raiding should require mechanical skill to know your rotation, to apply your rotation, and to deal with raid mechanics

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by IceStationZebra View Post
    1. Reduce the xp you get for quests to 10% of what you get today to greatly slow the leveling process down. Make it required to do all the current leveling dungeons at least once before you can move on to the next questing zone.
    This wouldn't make the leveling 'harder', just obnoxiously long. There is nothing hard about leveling. Also, 'forcing' people to do dungeons is not the way to go, as the players have time and again shown their immense displeasure at having things 'forced' on them. (remember dailies?)
    Quote Originally Posted by IceStationZebra View Post
    2. Get rid of all tier gear bonuses.
    Why? That makes the tier gear 'unique' (since they got rid of the tier gear's unique looks back in Wrath...) and in no way a tier gear bonus make the game easier to the point of allowing you to do something you simply could not before.
    Quote Originally Posted by IceStationZebra View Post
    3. Bring back the 43+ level talent trees (should be one talent for each level) with even more branching to make each talent/class unique.
    That won't make the game 'harder', just, again, obnoxious, confusing to the new players, and bringing back the 'cookie-cutter' builds that almost EVERY raider will have.
    Quote Originally Posted by IceStationZebra View Post
    4. Get rid of “all classes do same dps” concept and bring back the old utility classes.
    You mean back when all a paladin could do was heal in a raid? Back when the sole reason you brought a warrior with your raid group was to tank?
    Quote Originally Posted by IceStationZebra View Post
    5. Add a 34 man raid type where the raid must consist of one of every class/talent to enter.
    Ugh... I know I mentioned making the game obnoxious before, but this... this would take the cake. The ONLY thing "hard" in this idea would be to actually form the raid. It is a major pain to simply organize a guild 25-man team with a proper melee/ranged ratio... can you even imagine how obnoxious it'd be to gather in a raid group one player of every spec of every class?
    Quote Originally Posted by IceStationZebra View Post
    6. Get rid of flying and portals.
    Why do people just KEEP mistaking 'time-consuming' with 'harder content'? What next? Get rid of Heartstones and rested XP?

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by facepalm247 View Post
    Given private server talk is generally frowned upon on....I will just leave it in theoretical terms of I would have to disagree with you on that prospect. I'm sure if they opened up one vanilla server....it would run at a minimum of half population if not full population....but thats just guessing from some of the numbers I see....places.....
    Playing Vanilla wow in MoP as an option is like playing Vanilla D2 in LoD: why would you want to do it when LoD made D2 a million times better (Vanilla D2 kinda sucked, and LoD really made the game fun)!? Yea, it would be great for newer players to see how Wow changed, but really, I don't miss any of Vanilla and BC's flaws. For another comparison, why pass a free 2014 Toyota Camry for a 1981 Camry that's a clunker?

    No, less than half will probably try out an old server only to get bored of outdated content, while knowing classes/builds like Moonkins were garbage until Cata/5.0 MoP (You were very limited with class build options, and if you couldn't get 39 people to do a raid, you're not going to see Vanilla's endgame. No one missed gathering 40 people. Get serious with me). I loved Vanilla and Wrath (I hated BC), but take off the rose-tinted, nostalgia glasses.

    I never cared for going back to old content like a private server because despite fond memories of Vanilla and Wrath, I don't miss dumb shit like melee hunters, worrying about bullshit stats like armor penetration, 60 gold for a level 10 Voidwalker spell, wasting points on really dumb shit for pve/pvp talent trees (Yes, MoP isn't free of this, but there were much more useless talents from the old tree), the many group quests people never bothered to do, and hoping to god someone will take a dps into a 5 man dungeon.
    Last edited by Orkwuzhere; 2013-07-03 at 07:28 AM.

  16. #216
    To the people complaining that the proposed changes don't make WoW "harder", only more inconvenient: this is exactly what MMOs are all about (or rather "used to be all about", as every new MMO is sadly taking WoW's approach). They do not require skill, not in the way fighting games, arena shooters or RTS games do. MMOs are about investing time in your character and thereby improving it - mostly involving community aspects. "Being good" simply means you've spent a LOT of time on your character.

    WoW's biggest problem is that the game is too convenient right now. It's caused by all these "quality of life" changes that, while they may seem great on paper at first, really affect the way the game is played. In a bad way.

    Take our gear for example. In Vanilla and early TBC, raiding was pretty much the only way to acquire epics (save for a few exceptions). So in order to get epics, you had to get involved in a guild and spend a lot of time wiping to finally get some purplez. "Now wait a minute", said the community, "that's not convenient at all! Give us easier access to epics already!" Blizzard complied and added "welfare epics" - epics bought with a currency that could be obtained from farming dungeons. As a result, epics became greatly devalued. In MoP, this devaluation has become absurd, thanks to Raid Finder and Bonus Rolls. And right now, it's happening with Legendaries as well. The Black Prince questline completes itself pretty much automatically. Just make sure you have the quest in your quest log and go about your business, and after X weeks it'll complete itself.

    Dungeon Finder seemed amazing at first, but it really had a negative effect on the atmosphere in pugs: people rarely talk and just want to rush through the dungeon as fast as possible. There's no punishment for being a jerk - not through social control (maintaining a good reputation on your server), not through GM actions - so people can flame their party members without any consequences.

    Levelling has been really dumbed down. I've recently been playing on a Vanilla private server for a few days and it surprised me how hard it was just to level up. You had to be careful not to pull too many mobs, as 4+ mobs meant certain death and fighting 3 mobs was pretty damn hard. In MoP, every class has a self-heal or another ability that makes levelling extremely easy. Add heirlooms to the mix and you're pretty much invincible. You might say "then just level without heirlooms!" but it really doesn't work like that. People are still inclined to level in the most effective way possible. The only solution is to get rid of heirlooms altogether, or simply nerf the stats on them and keep a reduced exp bonus.

    All in all I'd say WoW is a lost cause. The community has grown too attached to this level of convenience. It's a new generation of MMORPG players, going back to the old ways would do the game more harm than good.

  17. #217
    Make grinding optional.

    - No valor cap per week.
    - No max cap total.
    - Significantly reduce the rate at which you acquire valor.
    - Remove justice entirely.

    Gradually increase valor drop. 5 per heroic boss in 5.1 for 1000 valor per 476 piece. 10 valor per boss in 5.2 for 2000 valor per 502 piece (arbitrary example numbers). Allowing players to save up, but without encouraging it to a huge degree.

    Valor should be a bonus way of obtaining loot. Valor should be a guarantee, a break from the RNG bosses. Not a nearly obligatory way of acquiring loot in order to increase your Ilvl.

    Make heroics more difficult.

    - Epic drops from last boss. Like TBC.
    - Valor gain from each individual boss.
    - Last boss normal drop valor.

    Remove LFR difficulty, and normal difficulty.

    ''Seeing the content'' is the greatest incentive to forming guilds and raiding dungeons. As of now, it is possible to AFK your way from the 1st minute you gain ilvl 460 up to last boss throne of thunders. It used to be about seeing the content and defeating the bosses for the accomplishment. Now it's an endless grind to improve your gain with no purpose whatsoever other than to improve your gear further. As long as the group does not whipe, no one will give two shits about your performance.

    I never saw Illidan as a TBC raider through much of T5 content prior to the 30% hp nerf. And i was happy with that, i got to see the bosses my time schedule and my skills allowed me to see. In Cata i had 2 days played total and got to defeat Deathwing, in the most pathetic display of a final boss supposedly set to destroy the world. IT WAS SHIT FUCKING EASY, I BARELY FUCKING CONTRIBUTED. I didn't experience any previous raids that expansion and performed mediocre through heroics in order to grind up to the point where i could click the magic ''save Azeroth button'' Also known as the Looking for raid button.

    I agree with Blizzard, less than 1% seeing Kel'Thuzad in Vanilla was to damn low. TBC was perfect, keep the difficulty and nerf the entirety of the content 2 weeks before the next expansion is implemented. It allows the noobs like me to see the content.
    MSI 7970 Lightning | i5-2500k / GB z68 UD4 (H70) | 32GB DDR3 1600MHZ | 60GB Intel 330| 240GB Samsung 840| 1.8TB HDD


  18. #218
    Not so much a matter of difficulty as a matter of incentive to do difficult content. Give the 25m heroic better stuff. Doesn't have to be much but it should be something non-cosmetic.
    i7 3770K OC @ 4.5Ghz; ASUS SABERTOOTH Z77 MOBO; Antec Lanboy Air Black Case; 2X GTX 480 SLI OC @ 800/1500 clocks; 16GB 1866Mhz RAM; 256GB CORSAIR SSD; 2X Phobya DC12-400 Pumps; Koolance 370 r1.1 CPU Block; 2X Heatkiller GPU-X GPU Blocks; Tygon Silver 1/2" ID Tubing; Microreservoir

  19. #219
    1 raid size 1 raid difficulty 1 legendary that would be rare to obtain. vanilla raid style. raid size would be 15 instead of 40

  20. #220
    Or you can just do heroic raids?

    To say, "WOW IS TOO EASY" with one breath and "I DON'T HAVE TIME FOR AND OR HATE HEROIC RAIDS" with another is like saying, "College is to easy! they need to make it harder!" while having an English major and refusing to change majors.
    Quote Originally Posted by Windfury View Post
    Hmm their writing style reads as male to me.

    Now you've got me wondering.

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