1. #1

    Tanking Ji-kun HC undergeared

    Hey everyone, my first thread here on mmo-champion.

    Recently I switched my main to my paladin because I got pretty bored of my BDK and wanted to try out something new, aswell as a ton of other reasons that would take too long to explain.

    Currently I'm in a 1/13hc guild and tomorrow we'll be going for Ji-Kun HC, while already having given it a few tries this lockout. I'm only 511 ilvl currently and 508 when we did our Jin-Rokh hc kill, and it was hell tanking it. Having given ji-kun a few tries already, I was dying on pretty much half the attempts. My problem is not the talon rake, as I can time SotR for that, but the Infected talons debuff that instagibs me right after a talon rake. Our tactic relies upon each tank taking 3 rakes once, then 2 every time after. Sometimes our MW monk was able to use Life Cocoon on me and that saved my ass, but it was not something I could rely on every attempt. I'm resetting infected talon stacks when they reach high enough, but on most of the attempts I have to use my bubble way to early to reset stacks because I'm taking insane damage from them, so resetting isn't of much help when facing a 3rd talon rake + 7-8 stacks of infected talons. It's also worth mentioning that all my CDs like AD, GoAK and DP are almost certainly used by then, if I want to survive to even see a 3rd talon rake.

    I know 511 ilvl is really low to be tanking Ji-Kun HC with, but I have been terribly unlucky with drops and do not want to halt my guild's progress just because I'm undergeared. Currently, what I have in mind is taking Hand of Purity, but that would mean me not being able to HoP when not tanking to take no damage from about 10stacks of infected talons, which is pretty lethal even when the other tank is tanking the boss (why doesn't HoP reset stacks? ). I'm also thinking of reducing my haste by abit in favor of stam gems, to be able to be healed by the healers instead of simply dying.

    In any case, here's my paladin's armory:
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...amias/advanced

    Would love to hear any suggestions that you guys have.

  2. #2
    Consider using more stamina. Id say JC is a pretty subpar profession for a class that doesnt use directly strength/agi/int/stamina, since using 480 haste gems instead of 320 is only a 160 haste bonus per gem, while you could do with 240 stamina per gem and that would be slightly better for you.

    I`d say it`s vital that you get the bonus from socketing on your legs and you could dump the other stamina JC gem on your chest. 480 stamina will do you much better than 320 haste, also consider using the stamina cloak enchant.

    You should also be looking forward to get the extra slot on your weapon, if you don`t already have it. I'd say dump a bunch of valor points on item upgrades if you are to attempt H Ji'kun.

    From a tanking perspective, use Hand of Purity to help with the Infected Talons debuff and you should be set.

  3. #3
    Hand of Purity + Unglyph DP.
    AD for 3rd talon rake.

  4. #4
    1. as already said, take Hand of Purity. However, usage of it slightly depends on the nests you take. If you take 1 and 4, just use it on CD while tanking boss. But if u go to 2nd and 8th, keep it for the time then boss was taunted and you run to the nest, because while you running and staying on the nest possibly without a healer yet, dot can easily kill you.
    2. Depending on composition, you can use glyphed DP for every first Talon Rake and use GotAK/major healer cd on each second. I wouldn't recommend using AD just by itself, the following melee attack or dot can easily kill you if healers are not aware.

    unless rest of the raid is undergeared too, don't bother soaking the pools. If you can burn him down after 8th nest, there's enough space for everyone.

  5. #5
    My co-tank (25H, warrior) was having trouble surviving the infected talons debuff, so I started to taunt Ji-kun right after he applied Talon Rake to him. This allowed him to drop stacks, and it helped a ton for his survivability. He'd take him back right after the stacks dropped.

    This was in 25M though where we run three tanks. Running nests, I don't know how feasible it'd be.
    Last edited by trystero; 2013-07-02 at 11:46 PM.

  6. #6
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    Haaaand of Purity is your godsend... Don't soak the pools unless the ENTIRE raid is melee. Seriously it's a waste of time. Just soak as many feeds as the raid can muster.
    For the 3rd Talon rake, we usually use a serious cooldown to take it and have the healers/minor cooldowns for the first two.

    And I'm gonna take a second nod on doing a bit of stamina buffing. You should be surviving just fine on the regular hits, just be sure to build up HP and generate enough to take the talon rakes. I know faster holy power generation is great but this is a fight with a massive hit move, you don't need to worry quite so much if your healers are ontop of things about taking a little extra 'regular' damage.

    We had our druid who was struggling a bit on the 3rd Rake, our shaman opted to use spirit link totem at that point and then I'd have hand of sacrifice at the ready later, If you've got any healers/classes who can save your ass then I suggest doing it. Take outward help from ANYthing you've got available. Personal accountability is an admirable trait but the strength of a good raiding team, is spotting who can support you and how you can support them. They are all your tools, use them.

    List your typical raid setup and I could tell you who can help you gib those talon rakes/Infected talons. Healers being the main ones since they'll have most of their attention on you throughout the fight.
    Quote Originally Posted by savutitus View Post
    Yeah, it's always WAR WAR WAR untill..BY ALL THAT IS HOLY DO YOU SEE THAT ENEMY OVER THERE?? GLORIOUS LOOT!!!!!

  7. #7
    No offense but try using a tactic that isn't stupid and relies on you taking 3 stacks.

    If the person going to nest 2 pulls then swop after the first stack. Voila, you never have to take more than 2 stacks.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    No offense but try using a tactic that isn't stupid and relies on you taking 3 stacks.

    If the person going to nest 2 pulls then swop after the first stack. Voila, you never have to take more than 2 stacks.
    No offense but try posting a comment that isn't stupid and assumes that you're start is the only viable one.

    DOIT.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    No offense but try posting a comment that isn't stupid and assumes that you're start is the only viable one.

    DOIT.
    It's not the only viable one, no. But it IS the best one if you're progressing on the fight. You can't tell me 2stack rotation is worse than 3 stack rotation. Now, I agree the way he worded his post was.. questionable, but he IS on to something important. There is NO reason to take 2+ stacks on progression, and 511 is more than enough for 2 stacks with HoPur.

    (Excluding whoring ofcourse, then you start going 5-2-5-2-5-2 with divine shield in between for ranking. But that's not progression. :P

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickwickman View Post
    It's not the only viable one, no. But it IS the best one if you're progressing on the fight. You can't tell me 2stack rotation is worse than 3 stack rotation. Now, I agree the way he worded his post was.. questionable, but he IS on to something important. There is NO reason to take 2+ stacks on progression, and 511 is more than enough for 2 stacks with HoPur.

    (Excluding whoring ofcourse, then you start going 5-2-5-2-5-2 with divine shield in between for ranking. But that's not progression. :P
    I mean, don't know his offtank. Fairly sure that the monk in my group "takes" 4-6 of em, and i take 3 just for when he's away. (Buff paladins, nerf monks).

  11. #11
    Your Ilvl isnt that low for Ji kun hc i.m.o, i did it with just a few more than yourself, however your main issue here is

    1. No use of Hand of purity
    2. 3 stacks of talon rake

    My guild uses a tactic where main tank (warrior on this fight) goes to the nest guardians except nest 8.

    So he tanks boss at start till first talon rake, then i take over as a prot pally, by the time i took my 2nd talon rake, hes back, he takes 2, then me (hes off to nest), then when im at 2, him again till 2 , then me while he goes to nest etc... The only time i go to a nest is for nest 8 - the guardian. Maybe try this so you never get a 3rd stack of talon rake...

    If you NEED to take 3 stacks however, just AD it, but the talon rakes aren't really the worry, the worry is the stacking infected talons from tanking the boss, when tanking him for 2 stacks i sometimes ran away (for my nest) with a 10 stack that could kill me alone, so if you take 3 stacks of talon rake, your probably getting 10 + easy, I'll suggest after the 2nd Talon Rake, (when ur taking 3!), Taunt + bubble -> remove bubble, this will prevent a huge stack of infected talons. For the rest just Hand of purity when you feel you need, i like to do it as the other tank has taunted, because if your running to nest with a huge stack of the debuff, healers may not be able to heal you enough.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    No offense but try posting a comment that isn't stupid and assumes that you're start is the only viable one.

    DOIT.
    How is my post stupid?

    Hes taking on a fight a bit undegeared and dying pretty consistently. Since its the second heroic boss its fair to say his guild probably isn't in the league of Method or Paragon. This leaves him with 2 options
    1) Somehow survive 3 talon rakes and loads of infected talons stacks
    2) Change the strat so he never has to take more than 2. (You know, like how the fight is intended to be done when you aren't cheesing for vengeance)

    The root cause of deaths is a bad strat, this can be changed. Stopping him dying on a 3rd rake probably won't happen consistently because he lacks gear and admits that to get to see a 3rd rake hes normally out of CD's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathmourne View Post
    My problem is not the talon rake, as I can time SotR for that, but the Infected talons debuff that instagibs me right after a talon rake.
    Your post however advises him to use AD to survive the hit (just so he can get killed by infected talons a tick later). So quit your faux outrage and look at the facts. Your post is stupid not really helpful, mine was impolitely worded. Just tell me not to be a dick when I word my posts.

  13. #13
    Assuming your dps is strong you could also try the strat that my group does:

    Tank 1 grabs boss, Tank 2 goes to the first nest (gets feathers etc)
    Tank 2 waits for Tank 1 to get one stack of talon rake, they swap as his nest comes up (nest 2)
    Tank 1 does his first nest, uses his feather so that way its up for the first down draft (so he can easily be the first to the boss, and take his first stack) Critical timing here is important or you risk a dps dieing or the tank 2 getting a 3rd debuff. Feathers cheese downdraft, so having the feather finish its duration as downdraft starts means it won't push you back.
    Tank 2 can forgo going to nest 3 or he can go, doesn't matter
    Tank 1's 4th nest will come out slightly before secound talon rake debuff, however feed young comes out almost at the same time so he can delay to take the 2nd stack, tank 2 taunts and tank 1 leaves as soon as he gets his 2nd application of talon rake

    After the 4th nest comes out, you taunt swap as normal, wait for 2nd down draft to finish and the feed young to go out, Blood lust and burn. Ignore the rest of the nests, spread out as best as you can. Heal your tits off.

    The only reason tank 2 ever gets feathers is for feed young during the burn (to add to the dps) or to help with screw ups (if tank 1 falls off plat) or tank 1 doesn't make it to his plats, or tank 1 dies and loses feathers, whichever reason.
    Last edited by Cheekun; 2013-07-03 at 06:51 PM.

  14. #14
    Thanks for the help everyone, but we won't be doing Ji-kun HC this reset it seems, since we had to change our setup abit with people rerolling new main specs, so we have to gear them up enough first. Next time we try it though, we'll definitely change our tactic so tanks only have to take 2rakes, and I'll probably be better geared by then and it shouldn't be a problem. Also, since I'm the OT, because the RL doesn't play dps, I'll be using hand of purity permanently, which after trying on a few fights, was pretty great.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathmourne View Post
    Thanks for the help everyone, but we won't be doing Ji-kun HC this reset it seems, since we had to change our setup abit with people rerolling new main specs, so we have to gear them up enough first. Next time we try it though, we'll definitely change our tactic so tanks only have to take 2rakes, and I'll probably be better geared by then and it shouldn't be a problem. Also, since I'm the OT, because the RL doesn't play dps, I'll be using hand of purity permanently, which after trying on a few fights, was pretty great.
    You'd probably get more effective use out of clemency or unbreakble spirit, i personally use clemency on fights such as tortos and ji'kun HC. Why? because hand of protection cheeses quills (it makes whomever you put it on immune to the damage) I throw it on a healer, who then can focus purely on the raids healthbars instead of her own. I can do this for two quills, and our raid only ever gets 3. It also makes whomever you put it on immune to the stun and stomp damage from tortos.

    Hand of purity is just so circumstantial to be using "permanently". there are alot of situations were i could see it being useful only for its usefulness to be countered by smarter play and strats. Furthermore, if your entire raid is going to be more geared by the time you attempt Ji'kun again, then purity's usefulness will drop off.

  16. #16
    Yeah don't hardbake talent choices in. Off the top of my head Purity is amazing for megaera / Ji'kun but theres talent choices that pull ahead on other fights. You need to consider that talent tree on a fight by fight basis and see what comes out the winner.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Yeah don't hardbake talent choices in. Off the top of my head Purity is amazing for megaera / Ji'kun but theres talent choices that pull ahead on other fights. You need to consider that talent tree on a fight by fight basis and see what comes out the winner.
    Hand of Purity doesn't work for Megaera's ignite flesh debuff.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Lide View Post
    Hand of Purity doesn't work for Megaera's ignite flesh debuff.
    Used to (and on HC Council) but then was nerfed.

    I only use Purity on:
    JiKun (pools/talons)
    Iron Qon (Impale)

    You COULD use it on Durumu, but the DoT is so inconsequential, I've no idea why you would. Plus, it precludes you from Clemency and UbS for more frequent debuff clearing. Can also use it on HC Primo, and I did for some time, but I ended up just sticking with UbS for more unglyphed DivProt uptime.
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  19. #19
    I tanked heroic Jikun today for the first time, Taunted at 2 stacks everytime, had a 3rd doing nests(25man) would just use shield of the righteous and sacred shield first one most of the time, and guardian of ancient kings every 2nd talon, and when it comes to getting 2 more stacks i would switch the 2nd talon cooldown with argent defender, hand of purity when ever i would get high stacks of infected wounds. I would save Divine protection as a backup cooldown.

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