Thread: My QoL changes.

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  1. #1

    My QoL changes.

    I've just started leveling my Rogue, this is where I'll post my impressions.

    1. Slice & Dice should add to it's duration. Now if I have 20 sec left, and cast new one with 2 combo points, it just becomes worth 2 points, does not add. This would be useful change, when adds die and I just have those 2-3 points on them that are now lost. (see next suggestion)
    2. If an enemy dies with my combo points still on him (and I switch to new target) those "lost" points should automatically add to Slice & Dice or Recuperate.
    3. Redirect should have no cooldown, or just let us build compo points on ourselves. (like Monks do)
    4. Our first AoE comes at level 66, and considering the state of low level dungeons (AoE fest) we're gimped. (except boss fights)
    5. Tried transmogging my BoA daggers to Mace - couldn't. Why oh why?!
    Added later:
    6. Glyph of Deadly Momentum - instead of refreshing S&D and Recup to their original duration, could refresh their duration to its 5 CP maximum duration. I can't see how this would brake anything, but leveling for sure would go smoother, since I can never (never ever) put 5 CP on my targets, they just die at 3-4.
    7. Minor glyph that lets us use Spring while in ghost form (I believe monks can roll while dead?)
    8. Glyph of Deadly Momentum - could work on kill assists too, not just killing blows.
    9. For all classes - need new way to teleport to the entrance of the dungeon, without teleporting out and in again (this would be useful to hang in quests that are at the entrance, since teleporting out often puts you in combat, then you must kill mobs, by the time you're done - group has left dungeon and there's no way for you to teleport back in and hang in quests)
    Last edited by Tokas; 2013-07-07 at 02:31 PM. Reason: added more

  2. #2
    Warchief Szemere's Avatar
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    I like 1 and 2, especially because 2 is already possible to do yourself, so it's basically a request to automate that which is already possible. Forcing to put those into either spell wouldn't work tho, as that would limit gameplay options rather than improve it of course.

    3, I disagree, simply because your combo points are much more impactful than a monks chi. a monk's chi abilities are first of all less bursty, you can't use all 5 points on 1 big ability, and second their chi generators are much closer in power to their chi-users, relative to the difference between combo generators and combo consumers.
    This power would have to be nerfed if you would be able to swap it around whenever you'd want.

    on 4, blizzard doesn't really care about low-lvl all that much, there's certain things your class excels at low-lvl, and others you completely suck at, so I'd recommend levelling through other means or accept the fact that you'll do pisspoor dps until 66 and get carried through dungeons =3

    on 5, daggers and maces/axes have different animations, and are a completely different kind of weapon gameplaywise too, as their speed and impact on abilities is different. I saw from your post history that you played a paladin, so they might not really have this (a certain spec can always transmog into any other weapons that are also for that spec), but it's the same difference as for example a fury warrior going between 1handers and 2handers, or animationwise like casters going from staff to MH+OH (although that one is appearancewise a tad obvious).
    Ex-GM and Raidleader of the MoX Purple Kittens Raidteam on Twisting Nether (formerly Grim Batol), RIP, Winter 2010 - Spring 2013.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokas View Post
    I've just started leveling my Rogue, this is where I'll post my impressions.

    1. Slice & Dice should add to it's duration. Now if I have 20 sec left, and cast new one with 2 combo points, it just becomes worth 2 points, does not add. This would be useful change, when adds die and I just have those 2-3 points on them that are now lost. (see next suggestion)
    2. If an enemy dies with my combo points still on him (and I switch to new target) those "lost" points should automatically add to Slice & Dice or Recuperate.
    3. Redirect should have no cooldown, or just let us build compo points on ourselves. (like Monks do)
    4. Our first AoE comes at level 66, and considering the state of low level dungeons (AoE fest) we're gimped. (except boss fights)
    5. Tried transmogging my BoA daggers to Mace - couldn't. Why oh why?!

    I will add more later, those are current ones that would make my life easier.
    1. maybe, but should still be capped to avoid having a slice and dice up for 3 days.

    2. No, would make redirect unusable completely. Especially now when we're going to get a glyph to remove the cooldown off from redirect. Maybe this might be possible up to the point when you actually learn redirect? Very unlikely for blizzard to implement this kind of change, especially since you can already do it manually.

    3. See the previous. There's a glyph coming in 5.4 to fix this. I'd prefer it as baseline, but a glyph is better than nothing.

    4. Combat has blade flurry since lvl 10, might be worth to look at if you really want some cleave/aoe-type of damage until FoK.

    5. Not going to even happen, I'm afraid. I'd prefer being able to transmog fist weapons with other 1h weapons and the other way around.
    Last edited by Jiigeri; 2013-07-06 at 10:42 AM.
    Main: Rogue - Alt: Balance Druid

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigeri View Post
    1. maybe, but should still be capped to avoid having a slice and dice up for 3 days.

    2. No, would make redirect unusable completely. Especially now when we're going to get a glyph to remove the cooldown off from redirect. Maybe this might be possible up to the point when you actually learn redirect? Very unlikely for blizzard to implement this kind of change, especially since you can already do it manually.

    3. See the previous. There's a glyph coming in 5.4 to fix this. I'd prefer it as baseline, but a glyph is better than nothing.

    4. Combat has blade flurry since lvl 10, might be worth to look at if you really want some cleave/aoe-type of damage until FoK.

    5. Not going to even happen, I'm afraid. I'd prefer being able to transmog fist weapons with other 1h weapons and the other way around.
    simply lol. Compared to other classes you can't call it an AoE

    Also FoK Damage is so pathetic compared to other AoE's its only good on assassination and mostly good on high level and with alot of mastery still has a rampup time tho who else got rampup time on their AoE ?
    Last edited by Koji2k11; 2013-07-06 at 10:54 AM.
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  5. #5
    To clarify a bit: I know you can use your "lost" combo points on dead target manually, but doing so on Slice & Dice makes no difference if your S&D is already up (since it won't add, just replace its time)
    This might not be needed to more experienced players, who have all their timers / rotations in their heads etc., but for me, new Rogue, it's annoying, I'd rather have it automated.

  6. #6
    Patch 5.4: Glyph of Redirect Redirect no longer has a cooldown. Source
    Last edited by Dyminator; 2013-07-06 at 01:21 PM.
    Dym - Balance Druid - Kazzak EU - Achievement Points: 17645+ - Mounts: 223 - Titles: 63+ - level 90: 15 characters
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  7. #7
    6. Glyph of Deadly Momentum - instead of refreshing S&D and Recup to their original duration, could refresh their duration to its 5 CP maximum duration. (I can't see how this would brake anything, but leveling for sure would go smoother, since I can never (never ever) put 5 CP on my targets, they just die at 3-4.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dyminator View Post
    Next patch: Glyph of Redirect Redirect no longer has a cooldown. Source
    Amen /10char

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Szemere View Post
    3, I disagree, simply because your combo points are much more impactful than a monks chi. a monk's chi abilities are first of all less bursty, you can't use all 5 points on 1 big ability, and second their chi generators are much closer in power to their chi-users, relative to the difference between combo generators and combo consumers.
    Really now. You do know that Jab is a pretty insignificant source of damage for a monk and RSK, FoF, and BoK are all very significant, right? The ONLY thing chi generators are for on a monk is to fuel their core rotation of chi-expenditure.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tokas View Post
    6. Glyph of Deadly Momentum - instead of refreshing S&D and Recup to their original duration, could refresh their duration to its 5 CP maximum duration. (I can't see how this would brake anything, but leveling for sure would go smoother, since I can never (never ever) put 5 CP on my targets, they just die at 3-4.
    Redirect those 3-4 to a new target and get your 5-points rolling that way.

  9. #9
    I think all combo point building abilities are pretty bad. Mutilate hits with all the power of a limp male reproductive organ.

    Leveling is an odd thing. Rogues really are strong solo as long as you don't pull multiple packs. But they can shred through single target like butter. It's just a play style you have to get used to if your'e used to a plate pull everything and aoe it down play style. Hell with normal tot raid gear I still almost die if I pull a lot of mobs and try to aoe them down with fok. It's just not how rogues work.

    I 100% agree that cp should be player based not target based. Look at a destro locks soul shards spamming chaos bolt those hit hard as hell. And a 100% direct coloration would be a paladin with Templars Verdict. They use all their hp at once to drop a bomb so to say that rogues cp are more important really isn't an accurate statement. It's out dated clunky and is the #1 loss of dps for rogues in a raid with multiple target swaps. The glyph of redirect is really good but sometimes cp on a dead mob randomly disappear for no reason causing the glyph to not work. For instance. Sometimes on Megaera I can redirect from a dead head to a new head and keep on trucking but frequently it doesn't work and my cp have disapeared. Odd that sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't and if they were player based rather than target that situation wouldn't be a problem.

    As far as deadly momentum it's fine as it is. Just build up a 5 point snd/recoup and then let it roll. Especially as assassination where envenom makes even a 1 pt snd jump up to 5 pt.

    Low level aoe is kind of a clusterfuck atm. Tanks are the strongest damage in a group by leaps and bounds it's not even fair. Especially DK tanks are ridiculous leveling. Blood boil has the most ridiculous low level scaling of any spell out there. Best option really is to go combat for blade flurry if you want to be competitive but even then you'll still get out dpsed by the tanks.

    In general though leveling you can think of it in 2 different ways:

    1. Sit back and enjoy the story. Finish out all the quests in each zone and enjoy the lore aspect of the game which is really quite entertaining.

    or

    2. Power level as fast as you can which rogues are well and able to do that with honestly the hardest level to level a rogue currently being 89 and then at 90 you suck in raids until you get gear.

    As far as leveling goes especially if you have boa gear it's a breeze. Ambush almost one shots every mob out there making SnD kinda worthless.

  10. #10
    Mechagnome -Raer-'s Avatar
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    Redirect not working has to do with mobs becoming untargetable. Some quest mobs instantly despawn when they die so you lose those combo points, the same with Megaera's heads. Sometimes the new head is up fast enough you can get the redirect off, others the old one despawns into the background faster than the new one appears.

    It's been ages since I was a low level Rogue (I'm actually attempting to level another one but it's slow going) but I can see why people are incredibly turned off by Rogues in the first few levels. You just have to learn to adapt your gameplay to the class and it's quirky, unpolished mechanics at those levels.

    Overall the only thing that I would like that you suggested is Transmogging daggers/1h weapons/fists. More automation would not be very fun imo, so much of Rogue's damage is passive as is.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    simply lol. Compared to other classes you can't call it an AoE

    Also FoK Damage is so pathetic compared to other AoE's its only good on assassination and mostly good on high level and with alot of mastery still has a rampup time tho who else got rampup time on their AoE ?
    I were merely pointing out that there is at least something to deal damage to multiple targets at once. I can't say I would know how it compares against other classes, I haven't been leveling anything from scratch for quite some time.

    Simply lol, it's still an cleave/aoe mechanic, even if it isn't comparable to other classes.

    Our single target damage is excellent at the moment, our survivability is one if not the best in the game (as far as DPS classes go). At least that's the case at lvl90 and in competitive gear. That's all I care about, anyway. Low level performance isn't important, at least in my mind. Most of the points in first post aren't valid as no-one can or should have all their tools available from the start. If you had all the goods from scratch, would there be anything to look forward to? At least for me it's been the only thrill in leveling to wait to get that awesome ability / passive that makes everything that much more enjoyable and fun.
    Last edited by Jiigeri; 2013-07-07 at 11:13 AM.
    Main: Rogue - Alt: Balance Druid

  12. #12
    7. Minor glyph that lets us use Spring while in ghost form (I believe monks can roll while dead?)

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigeri View Post
    I were merely pointing out that there is at least something to deal damage to multiple targets at once. I can't say I would know how it compares against other classes, I haven't been leveling anything from scratch for quite some time.

    Simply lol, it's still an cleave/aoe mechanic, even if it isn't comparable to other classes.

    Our single target damage is excellent at the moment, our survivability is one if not the best in the game (as far as DPS classes go). At least that's the case at lvl90 and in competitive gear. That's all I care about, anyway. Low level performance isn't important, at least in my mind. Most of the points in first post aren't valid as no-one can or should have all their tools available from the start. If you had all the goods from scratch, would there be anything to look forward to? At least for me it's been the only thrill in leveling to wait to get that awesome ability / passive that makes everything that much more enjoyable and fun.
    well if you are talking about survivability in PVE you might be right but thats only because we can almost faint EVERYTHING and we have CoS pvp looks entirely different where ouf survivability/mobility is by far the worst of all classes
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    pvp looks entirely different where ouf survivability/mobility is by far the worst of all classes
    I've heard DK's take this role.

    - - - Updated - - -

    8. Glyph of Deadly Momentum - could work on kill assists too, not just killing blows.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokas View Post
    I've heard DK's take this role.

    - - - Updated - - -

    8. Glyph of Deadly Momentum - could work on kill assists too, not just killing blows.
    i heard DK's deal more DMG then we rogues do
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  16. #16
    9. For all classes - need new way to teleport to the entrance of the dungeon, without teleporting out and in again (this would be useful to hang in quests that are at the entrance, since teleporting out often puts you in combat, then you must kill mobs, by the time you're done - group has left dungeon and there's no way for you to teleport back in and hang in quests)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    i heard DK's deal more DMG then we rogues do
    Can't argue, my DK only 88.

  17. #17
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Slice and Dice would have to be changed such that the time between all the CPs are the same including 0 and 1.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Slice and Dice

    25 Energy 100 yd range
    Instant
    Requires Rogue
    Requires level 14
    Finishing move that consumes combo points on any nearby target to increase melee attack speed by 40%. Lasts 7s per combo point spent. Maximum duration 60 seconds. Consuming combo points adds to the duration of the spell.
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
    W/L/Death count: Wolf: 0/1/1 | Mafia: 0/5/5 | TPR: 0/2/2
    SK: 0/1/1 | VT: 1.5/3.5/5 | Cult: 1/0/1
    Legendary Overlooked

  18. #18
    This is actual Blizzard message about 5.4 (or next expansion) or just that blue thingie anyone can make?

  19. #19
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokas View Post
    This is actual Blizzard message about 5.4 (or next expansion) or just that blue thingie anyone can make?
    No, I made it.
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
    W/L/Death count: Wolf: 0/1/1 | Mafia: 0/5/5 | TPR: 0/2/2
    SK: 0/1/1 | VT: 1.5/3.5/5 | Cult: 1/0/1
    Legendary Overlooked

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    No, I made it.
    Thought so, was too good to be true and not be shouted all over the internet

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