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  1. #1

    Feral dps probelms

    hey guys so my flat mate has this programe or add-on not sure witch of the 2 it is but it is telling him when he inputs my gear that with the agil flask and virmen pot i should be pulling 100kdps on bosses the problem i am having is im only getting around 70-80k is this normal? my ilvl is 503 .my question is,is my dps correct around 70-80 at the end of a fight or should it indeed be 100k like this programe is telling me.i am also following the dps and opening rotation guide from icyviens if that helps sorry i cant post a link to my gear not enough post but its tauren druid zoology from jubei thos

    - - - Updated - - -

    just checked a website called noxxic aswel and according to that 502 druids dhould be doing 123k so what am i doing wrong?

    - - - Updated - - -

    my current rotation is start fight.heal for dps buff invis pop virem pop and invis then b4 ravage i savage roar then ravage then i pop faire fire then rake then shred until 5 b4 applying rip ill tigers roar with predatory instincts buff then rip then shred until 5 again and reapply savage roar with 5 combo points.i always keep tigers fury on cd while refresshing savage roar and rip and rake but i dont understand why im pulling 70-80k?

  2. #2
    It's wrong, sometimes you'll do less DPS than that and sometimes you will do more, for instance my Simcraft says I should do more DPS as a certain Warlock spec than as another however that's not actually ever really the case, I'm a little tired so sorry for the brief answer but just as some reassurance I thought I'd get it answered quick, some fights like Mag and Durumu might be hard to pull above 100k DPS at that Ilvl however I'm not to familiar with Feral so I can't be certain.

  3. #3
    You shouldn't believe in those websites, as they provide no data at all to back up their claims... ever. (Especially not noxxic. Fuck that place)
    On the other hand: You should be doing more dps as ilvl 502.

    I did 70 (72 I think) k dps on my first ever gara'jal kill in MSV. At that time we hadn't had the Savage Roar buff and I was around ilvl 465-470.

    What you can do to improve your dps is to give us some logs that we can look at. I suspect that you are not keeping a good enough uptime on your buffs/debuffs, as this is by far the greatest dps increase together with execute. Work on balancing what you use your combo points and energy on. Practise when you should refresh a savage roar early in order to have CP for when rip expires.
    Also plan your cooldowns around bloodlust.

    Looking at your armory I see that you took the talent "Dream of Cenarius". Spec out of that talent, as it is NOT a dps increase if you cannot handle the basic rotation even. Noxxic strikes again I guess....

    EDIT: Use mangle in stead of shred!
    Last edited by Karlzone; 2013-07-03 at 11:16 AM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post

    EDIT: Use mangle in stead of shred!
    for gear u use mangle only if u before boss, or in emergency when ur rip about to fall and u need fast to build cp for new one
    Last edited by Zstr; 2013-07-03 at 01:23 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by UsedAxis View Post
    hey guys so my flat mate has this programe or add-on not sure witch of the 2 it is but it is telling him when he inputs my gear that with the agil flask and virmen pot i should be pulling 100kdps on bosses the problem i am having is im only getting around 70-80k is this normal? my ilvl is 503 .my question is,is my dps correct around 70-80 at the end of a fight or should it indeed be 100k like this programe is telling me.i am also following the dps and opening rotation guide from icyviens if that helps sorry i cant post a link to my gear not enough post but its tauren druid zoology from jubei thos

    - - - Updated - - -

    just checked a website called noxxic aswel and according to that 502 druids dhould be doing 123k so what am i doing wrong?

    - - - Updated - - -

    my current rotation is start fight.heal for dps buff invis pop virem pop and invis then b4 ravage i savage roar then ravage then i pop faire fire then rake then shred until 5 b4 applying rip ill tigers roar with predatory instincts buff then rip then shred until 5 again and reapply savage roar with 5 combo points.i always keep tigers fury on cd while refresshing savage roar and rip and rake but i dont understand why im pulling 70-80k?
    Don't even concern yourself with using stealth and Ravage in PVE. It doesn't improve your DPS.

    If you take Dream of Cenarius, you should proc it with a Healing Touch (instant after a 5-point finisher) to buff your Rip and Rake. This is key to good Feral DPS.

    Whenever you get the leafy proc on your screen, Clearcasting, use Thrash unless you've already applied it recently. Then you can spend it on a free Shred.

    Use Tiger's Fury on cooldown. You can delay refreshing Rip to line up with it.

    Below 30% stop using Rip and refresh it with Ferocious Bite instead.
    Last edited by Tarazet; 2013-07-03 at 05:29 PM.

  6. #6
    The amount of facepalming in these threads is overwhelming....

    First off, we can't really judge what you're "doing wrong' without proper logs and an armory link.
    Last edited by Nishida; 2013-07-03 at 08:29 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zstr View Post
    for gear u use mangle only if u before boss, or in emergency when ur rip about to fall and u need fast to build cp for new one
    wut o.O ?
    Mangle was a 0.2 (?) % dps loss in tier 14. This was when executing the rotation pretty much perfectly. Also mangle makes the rotation a lot more forgiving. We have a player who is not playing feral properly (assuming this as his dps numbers look wrong compared to his gear) - therefore he should be using mangle. It will be a dps increase for him. You would switch to mangle as soon as you got the 2p bonus anyways.

    I do need to correct my statement though: Use mangle in stead of shred OUTSIDE of berserk and times with too much energy.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    wut o.O ?
    Mangle was a 0.2 (?) % dps loss in tier 14. This was when executing the rotation pretty much perfectly. Also mangle makes the rotation a lot more forgiving. We have a player who is not playing feral properly (assuming this as his dps numbers look wrong compared to his gear) - therefore he should be using mangle. It will be a dps increase for him. You would switch to mangle as soon as you got the 2p bonus anyways.

    I do need to correct my statement though: Use mangle in stead of shred OUTSIDE of berserk and times with too much energy.
    Like I said above, use Shred with CC procs in the event that Thrash isn't needed. If it's free, you want to use the ability that damages the most and costs the most.

  9. #9
    Mechagnome Etapicx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zstr View Post
    for gear u use mangle only if u before boss, or in emergency when ur rip about to fall and u need fast to build cp for new one
    I don't even know if you spelled this correctly but.

    Mangle dose cost 12.5% less energy then Shred. Even thought Shred deals 20% more damage Mangle and Shred is still just a small portion of our total damage (On some random sim i looked 8,4% is mangle and 3.3% is Shred).



    * If you have 70+ Enegry Shred.
    *If you have OoC up and thrash is up Shred it(If you where to use mangle).
    *If you have berserk up use Shred.

    Othervise you Mangle basically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarazet View Post
    Below 30% stop using Rip and refresh it with Ferocious Bite instead.
    You should if you get the chance to reapply the Rip if you will make a stronger rip then the one currently on the target because as you see FB is still a minority of our Damage compared to strong Rips. (Randomly qouting something i think will be usefull (From the sticky ontop of this forum) You can either track bleed streanght with Affi DoTs (With the Druid bio addon) or WeakAuras or Dr00dfocus.

    #3.4 DoT mechanics
    When a dot is applied it snapshots all the current buffs, it won't be affected by buffs that are brought after the DoT is applied. Rip does not snapshot new buffs when we refresh it or extend it. If we get to our BitW phase try to stack up as many buffs possible to get a really strong Rip. Tiger's Fury, Trinket, Weapon procs and optimal, a potion would be the best scenario. When refreshing Rip with FB it does not snapshot new combo points either so if you refresh a 5CP applied Rip with a 3CP FB it will still be ticking as a 5CP Rip. And if you refresh a 3CP applied Rip with a 5CP FB it will still tick as a 3CP applied Rip.
    (I shamelessly bolded the important part)


    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    wut o.O ?
    Mangle was a 0.2 (?) % dps loss in tier 14. This was when executing the rotation pretty much perfectly. Also mangle makes the rotation a lot more forgiving. We have a player who is not playing feral properly (assuming this as his dps numbers look wrong compared to his gear) - therefore he should be using mangle. It will be a dps increase for him. You would switch to mangle as soon as you got the 2p bonus anyways.

    I do need to correct my statement though: Use mangle in stead of shred OUTSIDE of berserk and times with too much energy.
    Listen to this guy!
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarazet View Post
    Like I said above, use Shred with CC procs in the event that Thrash isn't needed. If it's free, you want to use the ability that damages the most and costs the most.
    We are talking min/maxing here. But yes you are correct in saying that is a dps increase. One shouldn't concern himself much with it though, as latency will often make you use a mangle which then consumes a new OOC proc. As soon as you are out of stuff to do and are playing at medium energy - that is where you can actively think about it.

    Talking about energy: OP. Don't spam your abilities too much outside of cooldowns. Feral is not a spec where you have to use every global cooldown. We apply our stuff and then we think about what we will do next.

    Listen to this guy!
    My pc which can play games broke.. I don't have anything to do but to prepare for holliday and being useful on forums. Holliday prep is boring.
    Last edited by Karlzone; 2013-07-04 at 05:59 PM.

  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Flawks's Avatar
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    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lodruid/simple
    Can only reach 125 k on dummy unbuffed, help pls.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Flawks View Post
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lodruid/simple
    Can only reach 125 k on dummy unbuffed, help pls.
    Sounds fine for dummy DPS.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Flawks View Post
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lodruid/simple
    Can only reach 125 k on dummy unbuffed, help pls.
    125k on the dummy is fine for your gear. However, you need to change the reforge on your Bracers. You're over hit cap, but you're reforging out of haste. Also, I don't see any ring enchants on your armory, but that may be a Blizzard error, as I've seen that before.

  14. #14
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ology/advanced

    Armory of the guy started tread.......
    For that gear sub 100k is rly low.

    1st: of all upgrade your weapon with VP to 491 ilvl since weapon dps is main stat(unless something changed in past 2-3 months i stoped playing feral seriouslly)
    2nd: your haste is quite low altho reforges are decent enuff bit under cap of hit/exp(should be fixed but not a must)
    3rd: according to your trinkets try going with more haste and HotW untill you menage to execute rotation/cds perfectly and feel confortable with it to go for DoC. PLaying DoC is all about buffing rake/rip with DoC buff and it takes some time to get used to it and feel playstyle.
    4th: What addon you are using to track SR/bleeds? in lfr you mostly don't need to FFF to keep armor debuff up so you could actually not waste global for it. Also as mentioned above pooling energy is normal for feral these days to be able to buff rip/rake with DoC. If you are energy starved and spam abilities try with HotW you might do better.

    @Flawks: i would change reforges quite a bit mastery following with high haste but i was always fan of haste>mastery especially since you are using HotW and have legendary meta + rppm trinket(renataki) haste is quite strong stat and you are reforging out of it.......
    125 is qute fine altho i do average of 120k+ on http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rcina/advanced atm raiding on rogue tho.
    (mind any typing erors i'm at work)

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Macor View Post
    @Flawks: i would change reforges quite a bit mastery following with high haste but i was always fan of haste>mastery especially since you are using HotW and have legendary meta + rppm trinket(renataki) haste is quite strong stat and you are reforging out of it.......
    125 is qute fine altho i do average of 120k+ on http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rcina/advanced atm raiding on rogue tho.
    (mind any typing erors i'm at work)
    Haste over mastery? Not sure where you got that from..

    Rule of thumb afaik is: without Rune, mastery wins. With Rune, M/C/H should be in 1:1:1 configuration with mastery slightly higher.

  16. #16
    Ye mastery wins but not by 4x margin and hes trinks/meta procs are prolly quite low with ~2,8k haste he has.
    Also if you actually read what i sad: mastery "followed" with haste not haste>mastery and that i'm fan of haste>mastery not that we should do it that way atm atleast.
    And hes using HotW not DoC and he doesn't have RoR......

    Read b4 you quote next time plx ty

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Flawks View Post
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lodruid/simple
    Can only reach 125 k on dummy unbuffed, help pls.
    Even at 544 Ilvl I sit down around 160K on a dummy, sometimes a little more. Raid buffs are fairly significant for us. Consider that the mastery buff adds somewhere around 15% to our bleeds. So that buff alone is around an 8% damage increase. (Napkin math of course)

  18. #18
    Now, I haven't played for some time and I'm not really updated on all the newest nerfs and buffs. But this is how its always been.

    Shred vs Mangle: Unless there have been some changed that involves these skills Shred is the filler of choice, if simcraft says otherwise its wrong really as Shred is and has always been the filler of choice for a long time. I did some test myself on this both ingame and in simcraft and everything else really, and shred was always ahead. Especially ingame on a dummy.
    DoC is a dps increase if you use healing touch or anything that will make it "proc" and make sure to refresh rake when the proc is still active. If you can't execute the normal priority or rotation correctly you won't be able to execute properly with DoC either, so go for hearth of the wild. The other is still shit anyways so...
    Rip, Rake, savage roar and Faire Fire 100% (If someone else have Farie fire covered don't bother) Savage Roar is the most important of them all, reacast it even if you don't have a single combo point. (Given you have the glyph) Good Luck trying to get better dps without that atleast having 98% uptime.

    Haste vs Mastery: Haste is useless... Go mastery all out. Hit->Expertise(Soft cap, not hardcap as you will most of the time be behind the boss and the boss cant parry attacks from behind)->Mastery->Crit->Haste. Follow this when enchanting and gearing. (Agi and Wep dps is always first, but that is hopefully a no brainer for everyone here. If there are major differences lets say: +500 mastery and a 10 agi, then the rule is different, however it is not likely if not impossible that something like that will ever happen)

    Also saw a guy bashing on Noxxic. Check again, usually Noxxic and Icy Veins are pretty dead on. And if ever in doubt check around even more on other websites and forums. In worst case scenario try to get a hold of a feral raider in the best guild on your server(If all the raiding guilds sucks, change server...)

  19. #19
    @ Clonzoo: haste vs mastery...... you are a bit outadted no offence ofc since with new trinket/legendary meta gem system haste is increasing proc chance, or your attacks have chance to proc trink/meta so in general more hits=more procs= more dmg especially if you apply rip/rake/trash with trinket bonus of ~7k agi(juju hes gear). And talisman is rly sht trinket for ferals well for most classes this tier.
    And if he gets Rune of Reorigination stat should be 1:1:1 with mastery slightly ahead for proc(mentioned above already tho), making reforges perfect is rly hard tho i have mastery~200higher than crit(lowest) and around 100 above haste wich is decent enuff for ~518 gear i have on druid.

    O and i missed it it seams you don't have enchant on weapon or extra socket?????
    Bracers= 180 agi enchant not 170 mastery also its sub 1k gold anyway these days...... and no belt buckle, bit more effort in character wont hurt tbh.
    And no profesions except herbalism if you want to raid on that char fix these 1st i personally preffer static bonuses but engie boost on gloves is quite great+ leatherworking for free leg enchant+bracer(500 agi).
    About websites fluid druid is quite good also.
    I hope i helped a bit to new feral(looks like he is new to class)

    On side note i don't raid on druid for past 8 months so i might be little bit outdated but i do raid on rogue(10/13)and do some alt runs on drood.

    And ofc knowing encounter mechanics is basics for good dps output in raid envoirement.
    Last edited by Macor; 2013-07-18 at 06:50 AM.

  20. #20
    Mechagnome Etapicx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clonzoo View Post
    Shred vs Mangle: Unless there have been some changed that involves these skills Shred is the filler of choice, if simcraft says otherwise its wrong really as Shred is and has always been the filler of choice for a long time. I did some test myself on this both ingame and in simcraft and everything else really, and shred was always ahead. Especially ingame on a dummy.
    First of Mangle VS Shred; It is really easy to explain it, non wins they are so equal in general conditions so you'd never see a difference. But what we know for a fact is that if we did whole fights with either Mangle or Shred, you'd generate more combo points with Mangle but you would probably suffer energy starving. And if you used Shred for a whole fight you'd do a bit more damage but then again you'd had less attacks.

    The reason why most only uses Shred when
    * If you have 70+ Enegry.
    *If you have OoC up and thrash is up.
    *If you have berserk up use.

    Is because it gives a smoother rotation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clonzoo View Post
    Rip, Rake, savage roar and Faire Fire 100% (If someone else have Farie fire covered don't bother) Savage Roar is the most important of them all, reacast it even if you don't have a single combo point. (Given you have the glyph) Good Luck trying to get better dps without that atleast having 98% uptime.
    Nah this is not true. First of if you by using SofT ends up with 100% Rip and SR uptime you'r executing the rotation wrong. Secondly Savage Roar should never be casted on 0 combo points other then on the pre pull, you should get used to planning a head in combat. And yes i say never but it happends.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clonzoo View Post
    Haste is useless... Go mastery all out.
    I was tempted to stop reading your post here really but i gave it my best and continued.

    Haste Rating
    Increases our paw hit speed and our energy regeneration. With our paw speed affected we get higher chance of Omen of Clarity procs. It also increases the cast time of Wrath during HotW. Added: Now in 5.2 change and with RPPM procs it should be mentioned that haste will increase in value depending on how much RPPM procs you have. Because the more haste the higher uptime on RPPM procs. More info on how RPPM works click here

    And you don't prio secondary stats before Hit and Exp caps really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clonzoo View Post
    Also saw a guy bashing on Noxxic. Check again, usually Noxxic and Icy Veins are pretty dead on. And if ever in doubt check around even more on other websites and forums. In worst case scenario try to get a hold of a feral raider in the best guild on your server(If all the raiding guilds sucks, change server...)
    I don't personally bash Noxxic or Icy Veins for giving out false information, i bash them not mentiong a lot of things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clonzoo View Post
    Now, I haven't played for some time and I'm not really updated on all the newest nerfs and buffs. But this is how its always been.
    Alright i don't bash you for not raiding, but i would like to say that just because we haven't had any core abillity changes dosn't mean that we find out how to improve even futher, Just because we thought X and Y in 5.1 dosn't mean it will stay true the whole expansion... Gear scales and theorycrafting goes forward everyday thanks to a lot of players on Fluiddruid.net.

    And talisman is rly sht trinket for ferals well for most classes this tier.
    Have i missed something? I'm pretty sure it's the best 522/530 trinket exept Rune ofc.
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