1. #1

    [Resto] New Druid Help

    So basically i was playing a mistweaver monk before and decided to roll druid (monk too easy ).
    My 2 main questions are:
    1- SOTF or Incarnation
    2- Glyph of Wild Growth y or n?

    All these questions are relative to 10m raiding.

    Thanks in advance for your responses.

  2. #2
    To answer your questions:

    1. This tier is very subjective. Take what you think will benefit your playstyle the best, but know this: SotF is generally the biggest throughput increase. ToL only surpasses it when used during high damage phases reliably 2-3 times at least, and that just doesn't always happen. You won't need ToL every pull, I can assure you of that, and when you do, it's probably something you could heal through without ToL anyways. But if your raid needs another 3 min, or you just want an oshit button, Incarnation fits that pretty well. Force of Nature is also a solid choice, it's a free smart heal that does pretty well and can help raid stability. Lowest throughput gain, but nothing to laugh at.

    2. I would not recommend the glyph for 10 man. Personally, I think the faster CD over the course of a fight is going to benefit you, especially if you take the 6652 breakpoint and/or SotF. As someone who takes both, I do not use the glyph. I would recommend the Rebirth glyph instead.

    Any other questions?

  3. #3
    nope that covers pretty much what i wanted to know, thanks alot

  4. #4
    I agree that SotF/ToL is completely subjective, hell some people even take FoN and think that's good (personally I think they're worthless, but that's just me, some people use them). Personally I think SotF is better because you don't really need a CD like Incarnation that often. In 10man I can't think of a single fight where it would come in handy, SotF is better on every fight in 10man imo, there's just no need for another 3min CD.

    As for the glyph, I'd say it's absolutely worth it, 100%. The only other halfway decent glyph is Glyph of Stampeding Roar which is insanely situational, sure you could take it sometimes on some fight (Iron Qon for the tornadoes or something) but it's useless on the majority of fights. Glyph of Rebirth is really not necessary at all since Rebirth restores people to 60% health anyway, and odds are if something kills someone from 60% it would have killed them from 100%. Most AoE things effect the entire group, or at least more than 5, so Glyph of Wild Growth is very much worth it with SotF build.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    I agree that SotF/ToL is completely subjective, hell some people even take FoN and think that's good (personally I think they're worthless, but that's just me, some people use them). Personally I think SotF is better because you don't really need a CD like Incarnation that often. In 10man I can't think of a single fight where it would come in handy, SotF is better on every fight in 10man imo, there's just no need for another 3min CD.

    As for the glyph, I'd say it's absolutely worth it, 100%. The only other halfway decent glyph is Glyph of Stampeding Roar which is insanely situational, sure you could take it sometimes on some fight (Iron Qon for the tornadoes or something) but it's useless on the majority of fights. Glyph of Rebirth is really not necessary at all since Rebirth restores people to 60% health anyway, and odds are if something kills someone from 60% it would have killed them from 100%. Most AoE things effect the entire group, or at least more than 5, so Glyph of Wild Growth is very much worth it with SotF build.
    FoN doesn't fall that far behind in terms of throughput, and it's completely free. Not to mention using all 3 treants at once is a decent throughput burst during high damage phases like Rampages.

    Also the glyph is really debatable. My unbuffed WG does 37,317 overall on 1 target. So times that by 5, you get 186585, that's 1 WG w/o glyph. Adding 1 target to that would be a 37,317 increase (223902), but at the cost of 2 seconds on the CD. So we have to see if the seconds are justified. After 40 seconds, you'll be able to use the unglpyhed WG 5 times (5*8=40) and the glyphed WG 4 times (4*10=40). So we can easily see if it's worth it. (186585 * 5) = 932925 > 895608 = (4 * 223902).

    As you can see, in terms of throughput, the unglyphed pulls ahead. What gets hard to account for is all possible tick-crits of the extra target, and you'd still get the same number of SotF WGs in theory, so you'd be getting more SotF ticks off WG. Does that account for the difference in healing? Maybe, I'm too lazy to do any more math though.

    In my opinion what it comes down to is how fast you want to put WG out, and I prefer the older style of an 8 second CD. Just me. To each their own.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Aoroc View Post
    FoN doesn't fall that far behind in terms of throughput, and it's completely free. Not to mention using all 3 treants at once is a decent throughput burst during high damage phases like Rampages.

    Also the glyph is really debatable. My unbuffed WG does 37,317 overall on 1 target. So times that by 5, you get 186585, that's 1 WG w/o glyph. Adding 1 target to that would be a 37,317 increase (223902), but at the cost of 2 seconds on the CD. So we have to see if the seconds are justified. After 40 seconds, you'll be able to use the unglpyhed WG 5 times (5*8=40) and the glyphed WG 4 times (4*10=40). So we can easily see if it's worth it. (186585 * 5) = 932925 > 895608 = (4 * 223902).

    As you can see, in terms of throughput, the unglyphed pulls ahead. What gets hard to account for is all possible tick-crits of the extra target, and you'd still get the same number of SotF WGs in theory, so you'd be getting more SotF ticks off WG. Does that account for the difference in healing? Maybe, I'm too lazy to do any more math though.

    In my opinion what it comes down to is how fast you want to put WG out, and I prefer the older style of an 8 second CD. Just me. To each their own.
    Eh, you also need to consider how frequent the damage is coming out; 10 seconds or faster pulsing (but not life-threatening like 50%+ per pulse) raid damage I can see an argument being made for unglyphed as you'll be getting more casts off and, over time, hit more targets. Longer pulses or extremely heavy raid damage I'd take the glyph, especially if the raid needs to be topped off quickly.

  7. #7
    The idea behind using the WG glyph is that you fit in 2 more Rejuvs in the downtime between WG casts (when in a situation where you are using it on CD) - It was mathed out back when the glyph first came out, that using the glyph will still be more healing over the course of the fight. I'd highly recommend it.

    As for SoTF vs ToL vs FoN. They are all actually pretty close so pick which ever one works best for you and for the encounter in question.

    SoTF is prolly the best for constant damage though it somewhat restricts casting order since you want to use the buff with WG as much as possible.
    ToL the strongest for infrequent heavy damage (rejuv spam +SM + WG) - or if still undergeared can be used to save mana (LB spam +SM+WG+RG on proc)
    FoN is somewhere in between - since you can basically keep 1 Treant going 75% of the time for more constant damage, or save em up for a bit and blow all of them at once for a heavy burst phase. And they cost no mana so its mana free smart healing (though it wont save anyone near death)

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