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  1. #1

    Is WoW PVP more complicated than LoL in your opinion?

    For me there is absolutely no comparison. I enjoy World of Warcraft PVP, and League of Legends, but World of Warcraft has so much more crap going on. Like to even think about being good with your character in WoW it could take months of playing him over and over and learning all kinds of macros and keybinds, whereas most players can hop into LoL and have a fair amount of success because of how simple the game is.

    What is YOUR opinion? And why?

  2. #2
    Wow pvp is way more complicated than LoL pvp and it shouldn't be a question. Some LOL fanboy might tell you that this isnt true but they are wrong. I've played a lot of both game and I really think that wow pvp is harder than LoL pvp. I think the fact that the mouse is in about 60% of the gameplay helps a lot. The mouse in wow pvp is almost useless and is only used for the camera. But these are 2 totally different games so it is kinda hard to compare. It's like saying that Super mario Snes is harder than Nhl 1994.

  3. #3
    Individual skill wise I have to say wow but team work wise lol wins at 5v5. 3v3 in wow takes a good bit of strategy. League of legends has no 10 v 10 so I can say anything for rbg's. I mean every class in wow has at least 20 different skills you have to watch out for league only has 4.
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  4. #4
    Field Marshal Sothoth's Avatar
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    I think that Lol, and Mobas in general, are just dumbed down Rts games. So yeah, Wow is more complicated.
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  5. #5
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    WoW PvP is far more complicated due to ability bloat, which is why I don't PvP in WoW any more.
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  6. #6
    League is more complicated

    Wow suffers from a lot of ability bloat, which makes the meta pretty much: blow your cooldowns, burst them down

    League has 100+ champions, a HUGE diversity of spells and abilities, but this doesn't create bloat because only 10 champions are active at one time. The game rewards macro play, forward thinking and having a complete understanding of damage and circumstances.

    Wow pvp is nothing like this. Absolutely, it is more complicated in a 1v1 brawl, compared to a 1v1 brawl between league champions. But the meta game that is built up around the map and champions in league gives rise to a far more intellectually complicated game. And this isn't even taking into account how dependent league is on mechanics and precision.
    Last edited by soletaken; 2013-07-03 at 07:44 PM.

  7. #7
    WoW is definitely more complicated on an individual level.

    From a team strategy perspective (at the professional level), LoL takes a bit more. The effort on strong team composition and the picks/bans process makes it so.

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  8. #8
    It's a tough question. They are both arguably more complicated.

    If you grabbed 1 person who had never played computer games before, they'd be able to understand LoL a lot easier. The LoL skillcap is arguably harder, though, with 1000s of different builds and potential comps.

  9. #9
    I think it is hard to compare the two. They are completely different styles of pvp. But if I had to choose one that is harder in the current state of things, I would say LoL. Wow has become a contest of just blowing all your cd's and bursting someone down in 2 sec. LoL requires more strategy and teamwork to be successful.

    Yes, WoW has a ton of abilities for each class/spec. However LoL has 100+ champions right now with more being added on a regular basis. Each champion has unique abilities and to compete in ranked or just be successful in general you need to have a good understanding of what each champion is capable of at any given time and pretty much know what each champion's abilities do.

    I love both games pvp but I just think LoL is a little more difficult to master.

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  10. #10
    They are different kinds of pvp so comparing them is kind of pointless.... LoL has a lower entry level compared to WoW pvp, but I think LoL has a much higher skill cap
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by kynthrus View Post
    They are different kinds of pvp so comparing them is kind of pointless.... LoL has a lower entry level compared to WoW pvp, but I think LoL has a much higher skill cap
    I kind of agree, but my real life friends are always like "why do you play WoW? it takes no skill." and imply that LoL's PVP is way more intense. I disagree with them, but since they don't play WoW they don't understand. Everything in WoW is happening super freaking fast to the point where it feels like my mind is going 100 mph LOL.

  12. #12
    Pandaren Monk Forgettable's Avatar
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    WoW is more complicated in regards to gameplay, hands down. However one factor that should be noted in LoL is that there are a lot of different champions and lot a of different combinations of abilities - More so than WoW even. So it isn't an entirely simple game, it still has a lot of depth.
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  13. #13
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    I play both of them pretty well, I'm also a former semi-pro FPS player, and I used to compete in a lot of the LAN RTS tourneys in my region (I'd never win because my RL BF / former roommate is strictly an RTS player, and a world class one - but with his tutelage I often came 2nd). So I like to think I have a pretty good understanding of high end competition in a huge variety of competitive video gaming. Let me break down how I see it down into two components, the physical act - and the mental game:

    Physical:

    WoW - it requires some of the highest manual dexterity of all of them, playing my spriest (83 keybinds) and warlock (68 keybinds) in high end pvp is comparable to playing a piano concerto - it's ludicrous how many abilities we juggle, macros and targetting keys we cycle through: in terms of manual dexterity the only thing close is FPS - and that's mouse-twitch, not key control.

    FPS - this is the extremity of mouse-twitch targetting, it requires only a handful of keys (AWSD, Q, E, Z, X, C, V, 1, 2, 3, 4 ,5 - for even the most complex FPS, many are simpler, so 15 keys at the most) - the emphasis on any FPS is more on your mouse control, it juxtaposes very rapid twitch with precise target acquisition, and heavily penalizes failure of any kind relating to them (by contrast, I don't have to click anything with my mouse in WoW - I just hold right mouse the whole time, and use it to pan around and view the battle).

    RTS - this frequently has higher keybinds than FPS, and makes greater usage of them - but still pales next to the keybinding concertos of WoW - competitive RTS usually involves 20 to 30 keybinds at the very most, which puts it at like a third to a quarter that of my Spriest. RTS does however make greater use of the mouse than WoW, so it's more of a balance between MMO/FPS competition, at least physically.

    MOBA - LoL has 4 keybinds for any character, in terms of manual dexterity in your left hand, it's the simplest of them all by a mile. LoL makes more use of the mouse than I do in WoW, but it's simply nothing compared to what it takes to compete in FPS, or even what it requires to have a high APM in any RTS (a lot of map scanning and targeting via mouseclicks). In terms of the physicality of the contest, MOBA's, and LoL in particular - is trivial in complexity when compared to any other modern competitive genre.


    The mental competition:

    WoW - In WoW Arenas, a Lot is going on - and there is never any time for reprieve for strategy - it would be akin to an FPS where 3v3 people are in a firefight that doesn't end for 15 minutes, while also trying to do objectives (but being shot and having to cover/shoot the whole time). Or it would be like playing Starcraft or Dawn of War while being constantly engaged in a 3v3 battle, and having to manage your macro without ever being able to disengage your fronts temporarily to spend resources or juggle your resources/upgrade chains. In this sense, WoW is extremely complex mentally - people hate on GladiatorLoSSa - but just listen to how much stuff it's calling, and that's just the enemy teams cooldowns, it's not telling you their strategies or common tricks (interrupts, stuns, CCs, etc), it's not telling you any of the same stuff for your own team. At very high rating, no comp is faceroll - it might be straightforward to win it, but to get to very high ratings - you put the same level of thought into it whether you're playing Thugcleave or RPS (you just don't necessarily need to change your course of action as Thugcleave as often, but you have to be thinking about it constantly). The sheer amount of simultaneous information we need to process to understand WoW mentally, is very very high - but the strategy of it probably suffers for that, WoW is therefore tactically complex - but lacks strategic (long-term) plays, at least in modern PvP - in TBC strategies could play out over a 40 minute match, while tactics were almost immaterial.

    FPS - High end FPS is interesting in that it is actually an extremely strategic game, with FPS economy systems (Quake, Counter-strikes), as well as establishing false predictability in your behaviour - and then changing it once you believe the enemy expects it (ie. Long A, Long A, Split B (something completely different), Fake Long A - when they expect it to be the same Long A), or in Quake the strategy of map control was often a bigger determining factor than the twitch itself (at least between top end players, where twitch varies - but not very significantly). FPS mixes this long-term strategy, with a tactical complexity that parallels WoW's - but what's nice about FPS is it gives you lots of non-firefight time to discuss your strategy, and then drops you into a firefight, and then gives you more time for strategics - WoW expects you to do both simultaneously, albeit to a potentially less tactically complex degree.

    RTS - RTS obviously has a greater emphasis on strategy, it's important in RTS to be able to juggle your macro (strategy) and micro (tactics) fluidly, but it goes at a much slower pace than FPS or RTS - this is both positive and negative in terms of overall complexity. Because RTS generally give you less tactically complex gameplay than WoW or FPS, it appears simpler - but because you have more time to reflect, the head game of competing and deceptive strategic play becomes increasingly important, and robust as a result. RTS share with WoW a more complex knowledge base than FPS, and to a small degree to MOBA's as well - since in RTS you need to know the ratios for how many of each type of unit win versus each other time, depending on the upgrades between them all - while in WoW you need to know all the abilities of all the classes to have any predictive power needed to win at high rating.

    MOBA - LoL competition is mentally complex in terms of very fast paced tactics between 6-10 toons simultaneously, with everything occurring in split seconds - this sounds complex - compared to WoW - the GCD is lower in LoL and therefore more things appear to happen in the same timeframe, but what's different is that each of those 6-10 toons only has 4 abilities, some have even less - so the mental arithimetic of LoL is in some ways faster than WoW or RTS, but it's also much simpler to predict because there are fewer variables (3-4 abilities per toon, versus 20-50 abilities per toon in WoW). In LoL, you can size up both teams in the lane if you see all who are present - and a good player has a pretty solid idea of how the engagement will go down before the first poke is fired. This leads to the positional jousting you see in LoL a lot - because all of them are able to predict the outcome more or less if they engaged at any given moment/position, so they shuffle around until they have an advantage - and then they all leap essentially simultaneously, with little or no communication.



    So, not to be mean to LoL (or MOBA's in general, but LoL is my favourite MOBA anyway) - but the real strength that LoL has compared to MMO's, FPS or RTS - is that pretty much *anybody* can watch a LoL match and have a pretty reasonable understanding of what's going on: that's not a bad thing, it's the best thing for getting competitive gaming to a wider audience - LoL will accomplish that long before an FPS, MMO or RTS does. By contrast, it takes 2200+ experience in WoW specifically (no other MMO will do) to have even a modicum of understanding of who is winning a Rank 1 vs Rank 1 WoW match, if you are a Rank 1 equivalent Rift or SWTOR player - you probably have no idea who is winning in WoW.

    I have no idea who is winning in top end RTS, none - and I used to podium in RTS LAN's all the time. FPS appears easy to follow - but all lay-people see is the tactics - someone got shot, someone made a good shot - the strategy of it is completely lost on anyone who isn't Cal-M+ (thinking of CS1.6, but pick your equivalent) - people see Fatal1ty hop around with ~flawless twitch accuracy, but what they don't see is that everytime he wins, it's not a matter of twitch - but dominating strategic points and making his opponents come to him.

    So to answer your question, LoL is less complex both physically and mentally than WoW(MMO's in general), RTS, or FPS - it's true - but it's also not a bad thing. LoL's simplicity is what makes it accessible - and that it can achieve the level of complexity that it does while being so physically and mentally simple means that it is elegant. If we said that LoL is mentally 70% as complex as WoW or something (the percent is arbitrary), what's beautiful about it is that I only need to know ~300-400 abilities to fully understand any encounter in LoL - but in WoW I need to know ~600-1000 - the second-order interactions of say, Ezrael's teleport to escape, versus Katarina's teleport to re-engage is much simpler than knowing that a Priest's Fear can be countered a dozen ways by an unholy death knight, but only a few by a feral druid - once the gap is opening, there is again a dozen ways to close it or prevent it from being closed. WoW is messy and therefore overly complex, it is definitely more complex - but complexity isn't the sole measure of whether a game is good or not.


    Edit: ...in my head I was on like paragraph 3 or 4, how did this get so huge O.O
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2013-07-03 at 09:46 PM.
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  14. #14
    WoW definitally is more complicated, despite what a LoL fan will tell you.
    that's wow's downfall in the e-sport genre, too complicated for outsiders to understand :/

  15. #15
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
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    Most indie games are more difficult than LoL. So I dont know why WoW PvP is even being put in the same league as it.

  16. #16
    Always enjoy your posts Yvaelle. To quote someone well spoken, your posts are often elegant.

  17. #17
    Pandaren Monk Klutzington's Avatar
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    That question will only get biased answers on MMO-C - it's a WoW website.

  18. #18
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klutzington View Post
    That question will only get biased answers on MMO-C - it's a WoW website.
    Bias how? Every class in wow has 3 different specs with multitudes of spells, talent combinations, glyphs and various other factors depending on those classes. As well as extensive item management.

    LoL has on average 4 spells per hero + 2 extra's - very basic talents and glyphs and extremely easy item management. Not to mention its on the same map every time that you know like the back of your hand. WoW raiding changes rapidly.

    Theres literally nothing in LoL that is harder than WoW. Except finding players who arent completely toxic.

  19. #19
    Going to buck the trend and say League.

    Yes Lol only has 4 abilities and a passive for each champ but to play the game well you need to learn all of them. Every Champ.
    Whereas in wow you only need to learn a handful of important abilities for each class.

    Positioning is more important in league due to brush,los,teammates,enemies. Getting cornered in league is a bad idea, whereas its no problem at all in wow.

    Awareness more important in league. Have to be aware of teammates, enemies, your surroundings, creeps/last hitting etc.

    Multiple build orders in league. Some items are better against certain comps/champs/situations,which you need to know.And you need to make sure your playing the right play style for said items. No point stacking ability power if your mainly doing attack damage. You barely need to think about items/stats in wow at all.

    Have to track gold/mana in LoL. Don't have to track mana at all in wow(depending on class/spec).

    Teamwork is alot more important in LoL than wow. Don't need to expand on that really.

    More tricks/clever use of mechanics in League. Flash through walls, placement of abilities, skill shots etc.

  20. #20
    I basically typed up all of the general points that Hammock above me has posted, before I refreshed the page one more time.

    I enjoyed WoW for a longer period of time than LoL, and I no longer play either, but I think that the fact is that the way the sheer number of characters + items in MOBAs are implemented make it at least even with the number of abilities (and to a lesser extent comps) in WoW on top of the 4 abilities per champion in League is being underestimated.

    You can certainly learn characters + items in League just as easily as abilities+comps in WoW, but it is not to be forgotten. Most of what we're seeing is "ability bloat" in WoW wins out over 4 buttons in League.
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