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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Snuggli View Post
    - Positioning is a major part of top end Arena too. Pushing even 5 yards too far and causing your healer to come out of LoS can lose you a game, much like pushing 5 yards too far on your lane and getting ganked will put you behind.

    - Awareness is huge in WoW. You have to keep track of what all 3 enemies are casting always, be aware of their positioning and be ready to recognise and react to any cooldowns they use in the same global they use them.

    - There is multiple reforge and talent choices in WoW, and they can have a pretty major impact on how that arena match pans out. Also, class playstyles depend on your comp, your rotation depends on what you're doing.

    - Healers track their mana, and nearly all classes have to track some sort of resource. Be it energy, orbs, chi, combo points or embers.

    - Saying teamwork isn't important in WoW is ridiculous. You need to be able to communicate between each other extremely well, and players who have played together for long periods of time know each others play styles and can focus more on the game. If teamwork wasn't part of WoW, people wouldn't need practice before tournaments playing together.

    - There is 1000s of tricks in WoW, you're just ignoring them because you're used to them. Stunning deterrences, faking kicks, blinking LoS, alter timing stuff, jumping off edges and shadowstepping/charging back up to fake enemies off, eating traps, deathing CC as a priest, displacing CC, eating CCs with pets, dispelling enemies on run-casts, md'ing blocks, using knockbacks on casts, gouging casts, shadowmelding CC. I could go on forever, there's a stupid amount of tricks in WoW, because of how many spells there are, infact, in a way, reacting to enemies using CDs could count as a 'skill move'.
    Your not wrong, its just in league there is a wider scope of things going wrong in terms of positioning. I could stand too near brush, or creeps for example.

    I'm not saying there's no awareness required for wow. Just saying its more important in league due to having the exact same thing plus what your team mates are casting, plus your creeps, plus your enemies creeps. Tracking CDs in wow isn't exactly hard.

    There are multiple choices but they are largely irrelevant. There is only one right way to reforge/gem enchant. And the majority of talents provide no choice. Unlike in league where various builds are viable.

    Healers yes, and I'll give you that about chi/energy etc. But some classes require no tracking. Mages don't have to worry about mana for example.

    Again, not saying teamwork in wow isnt important. Just saying its more important in league. In wow your team is as strong as the strongest player. In league your team is as strong as your weakest player.

    Fair point. I'll give you that.

    Going to add a few more points:

    Have to know the position of each champ and where they fit into the composition.A mage is a mage. I know exactly what hes going to do, whereas Teemo can be anywhere doing anything pretty much.

    Have to be more flexible. You can't all be an ad carry, you can't all be mid lane, you can't all be Teemo etc.

    More variety of matches in League. Never played the same game twice even against the same people/champions. Wows alot more rigid.

    Map objectives. Various buffs, npcs,etc.

    Counter picking/ being counter picked. (Ties into flexible point)

    Less about FotM. Various champs banned due to balance.

    Need to know when to fight, when to run, when to farm, when to team up, when to push and when to recall. In wow you only need to know when to fight and play offensive/defensive.

    No addons to help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post

    @Hammock, et al

    Imagine taking your mom (assuming your mom isn't some sort of video gaming savant, in which case use your grandmother) to two tournaments, first take her to the LoL Championship Series and try to explain the game to her - she's going to understand what's going on by the time the match ends, she might not be able to predict the outcome of conflicts - but everything you need to know about every toon on both teams you will comprehend to basic profiency by match end, versus skill-capped LoL players: you aren't skill capped by any means, but you comprehend their capabilities. Now take your mom and watch a top end WoW tournament - she could watch it all afternoon, and I bet she'll still have pretty much no idea what's going on.

    WoW's ability bloat is vastly more physically challenging than LoL's - that is a form of complexity. Predicting the interaction of that bloat also makes predicting the behaviour, and therefore the mental maths of WoW more complex. That WoW is more complex doesn't mean that WoW is a better game, but WoW is unequivocally more complex than LoL: it's not comparable.
    Wow looks deep and is deep. League looks shallow and is deeper. Your absolutely right in what your saying and its one of the great things about league that sadly wow has lost over the years. But I feel the skill ceiling in league is higher than wows due to the points I've made.

    Whats more complex; having to learn (random numbers here) 20 abilities or having to learn 4 abilities,a passive and 15 items (stats,auras,actives,everything)? What league lacks in ability bloat it makes up for it in terms of items/everything else I've mentioned. Your right in what your saying about wow requiring more mental maths but it's not about which game has more abilities its about so much more than that.(Points I've mentioned)

    Again, Wow looks deep and is deep. League looks shallow and is deeper. There is probably a better way of saying that.
    Last edited by hammock; 2013-07-04 at 11:49 PM.

  2. #62
    The Lightbringer TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    I'd say LoL requires more focus when it comes to anticipating the move of your opponent based on their play. WoW is definitely more complicated but I wouldn't say the complexity adds more depth to it, it just kinda makes things tedious.
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  3. #63
    Just played LoL for the first time and now I know why so many people play it. Its a joke to learn to play. Yes Im sure it gets harder but anyone with the correct number of working eyes and fingers can hop in and start playing. I would kill to pvp in WoW with only 6 abilities on my hotbar. You figure since Blizzard has been on the "lets make the game more casual friendly" spree since Cata that they would have learned that average joe isnt going to play with 50 keybinds. Maybe thats why wow PvP just gets worse and worse with every patch.

    Hell lets just go ahead and get rid of ability bloat in WoW. Every class gets the following abilites

    1. Small heal/damage no cooldown
    2. Medium heal/damage medium cooldown
    3. Big heal/damage long cooldown
    4. CC
    5. Defensive cooldown
    6. Burst cooldown
    7. Trinket

    There just made WoW pvp a lot more fun and a system that anyone can just jump right in to and start enjoying.
    Last edited by Dabrix32; 2013-07-05 at 01:13 AM.

  4. #64
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammock View Post
    There are multiple choices but they are largely irrelevant. There is only one right way to reforge/gem enchant. And the majority of talents provide no choice. Unlike in league where various builds are viable.
    They are and they aren't though. For example, Ashe adores Infinity Edge - because she has high AD, Crit % and Crit damage scaling - and Infinity edge is just gobs of all of those things. There is no top tier item for Ashe that is even remotely a comparable call to Infinity Edge, you could build Phantom Dancer first - but you'd be wrong - you could build Trinity Force - but you'd be wrong. The first few major items for any toon - within their role on their team is generally fixed - you can mix around the final ~2 items to your needs (utility, defense based on enemy composition) but that to me is akin to choosing the correct CC talents in WoW based on the enemy team (Void Tendrils vs Psyfiend, Glyph of Inner Will vs Glyph of Inner Fire).

    My Evelynn pretty much always rushes Rylai's, Lichbane and Hextech Gunblade - I mix up the order a bit depending on my enemies/teammates (ie. delay Rylai's if my team has a solid snare/enemy team doesn't have good mobility) - but outside of boots I always want those ASAP. If I'm anticipating a long game, my Morgana always wants a Seraph's Embrace, because black shield + seraphs shield + soul shackles = everybody eats chains. Pretty much every champion has items which are the right option, but sometimes champions can play multiple roles - that makes their order different, but fixed within that role. It's less flexible than you make it sound.


    Healers yes, and I'll give you that about chi/energy etc. But some classes require no tracking. Mages don't have to worry about mana for example.
    The parallel I see is that - neither does Katarina or Riven, they just press their I-win buttons whenever they are available and see how many enemies are still standing when it's over.


    Again, not saying teamwork in wow isnt important. Just saying its more important in league. In wow your team is as strong as the strongest player. In league your team is as strong as your weakest player.
    Not at all, IMO - a good carry in LoL can front for a weaker teammate who can support and play passive much easier I think. In WoW you end up queueing into the same people repeatedly and they look at your health and go "oh, that shaman has blue gear still on - we can kill him in our initial smokebomb no matter what they try to do to stop us". Very often when we notice an enemy mage or something playing poorly or frequently out of position - even though we almost never try to swap to mages - we'll sit on what looks like the weakest player on the enemy team because we know it makes them panic, and then they make mistakes. Both in terms of gear and ability, the weakest player in your arena team is almost always the first to die.


    Have to know the position of each champ and where they fit into the composition.A mage is a mage. I know exactly what hes going to do, whereas Teemo can be anywhere doing anything pretty much.
    Teemo's are like Ferals. Maybe they are stealthed behind that pillar waiting to drop their mushrooms on you and burst, or maybe they are on the other side of the map healing up their allies - you never know. Mages are more like asking where Brand is and what he is going to do - if you see him, he's going to try to hit you with a fireball and then hit you with some more fireballs (the mage equivalent is deep freeze), IMO mages are less predictable than pure mage carries in LoL.


    Have to be more flexible. You can't all be an ad carry, you can't all be mid lane, you can't all be Teemo etc.
    I definitely like that part of LoL, but it's true of WoW comps as well - you can't all be hunters (well, maybe on Live - but not normally), you can't all be Ferals.


    More variety of matches in League. Never played the same game twice even against the same people/champions. Wows alot more rigid.
    That's more an issue of formatting I think, wow arena matches end in like ~5 minutes usually - you die and it's done. An arena match is more comparable to a single team lane battle in LoL - if WoW arenas used a match system the way FPS do, or even WoW tournaments do - you would notice the differentiation in strats each match in the series more.


    Map objectives. Various buffs, npcs,etc.
    You see this in RBGs, Arenas is more like ARAM in that it's focused solely on team vs. team conflict.

    Counter picking/ being counter picked. (Ties into flexible point)
    This is also due to the formatting I think, in wow we can't counter-pick, we just get counter-comped and then have to requeue and pray for a non-counter - WoW is a blind pick sudden death situation.


    Less about FotM. Various champs banned due to balance.
    Riot is far more responsive to balance issues (they patch every week, every day - if they have to - Blizzard routinely leaves things broken until season end). Since they have far fewer abilities to consider - they are also far better at recognizing where the problem is. WoW Tournaments have used spec bans in the past though, it's just not implemented in the arena level yet.

    Need to know when to fight, when to run, when to farm, when to team up, when to push and when to recall. In wow you only need to know when to fight and play offensive/defensive.
    Arenas are a microcosm of 5v5 mid-lane battles, but everything you listed is completely true of RBGs.


    No addons to help.
    Tournaments often ban addons, but the popularity of addons is more to compensate for out-dated UI of basic WoW - that tells you nothing of what you need to know to play arenas well. You can visually and easily see every cooldown and ability every champion uses in LoL, in WoW we pop cooldowns like a kid with a pez dispenser - trying to track which ones are active on who would drive us nuts without better buff/debuff/cd frames.



    Wow looks deep and is deep. League looks shallow and is deeper. Your absolutely right in what your saying and its one of the great things about league that sadly wow has lost over the years. But I feel the skill ceiling in league is higher than wows due to the points I've made.
    I get what you are saying completely - on the positioning of the skill ceiling I guess we just disagree, but not to a huge extent really: they aren't vastly different - I just think all the complexity bloat in WoW puts it in the lead. I'd say that because LoL is paced better - with time to think rather than the constant poke exchanges of WoW - you get the same effect as what occurs in high end RTS - where the downtime between micro gives more opportunity for repose and strategy - so the head game may go a bit deeper. The challenge in WoW is in trying to manage the headgame, while overcoming the increasingly annoying complexity of the standard and practiced exchanges of fire: move and counter-move. WoW is like doing math in your head, in the middle of a construction site - part of the challenge is trying futilely to blot out the roar of jackhammers and the sputtering of generators all around you.

    Whats more complex; having to learn (random numbers here) 20 abilities or having to learn 4 abilities,a passive and 15 items (stats,auras,actives,everything)? What league lacks in ability bloat it makes up for it in terms of items/everything else I've mentioned. Your right in what your saying about wow requiring more mental maths but it's not about which game has more abilities its about so much more than that.(Points I've mentioned)
    The head game is deeper in LoL, I could maybe agree to that - but the complexity is the thread topic, and I think that still goes to WoW: I wouldn't say that the complexity is a good thing - LoL accomplishes almost as much with 1/17th the keybinds I use in WoW - by giving us greater opportunity to make the game more a contest of will and strategy, and less a contest of ability knowledge and tactics.

    Again, Wow looks deep and is deep. League looks shallow and is deeper. There is probably a better way of saying that.
    In so far as the headgame goes, I could agree - but I guess I define complexity to include a larger part of former appearance (deep/shallow), and not solely the function of the mental complexity (deep/deeper): so that I would list it as deep/deep, shallow/deep.

    I'm enjoying this discussion
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2013-07-05 at 02:52 AM.
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  5. #65
    I hope you do realise the post was made in 2009 right? Heck even I got 2450 backpedeling and using 5 keybinds back then during early wrath. You can't compare current wow skill cap with one 4 years ago.

    I'm rather sure you read whole threat so you've seen reasons why backpedeling is actually bad so I'll copy paste anyway

    "Its worse since its gonna take you longer to get to a wall. Im runningat 145% speed, you backpeddaling away really isnt gonna cost me any shreds at all. Especially with an aditional slow on you.

    If im getting slowed all the time, yeh im not gonna shred you. But if you would actually strafe i wouldnt even be in melee range

    The thing you said would be right, IF a feral had a perma energy bar, and well, we dont!"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-j4Q...tailpage#t=56s --> I don't see you backpedel in order to avoid rogue backstab or feral shred it's just randomly slowing yourself for no reason what so ever.

    "Conal spells like Dragon's Breath and Cone of Cold are frequently backpedaled just before use to make the cone go in the right direction" Mind giving example of CURRENT top rated mage backpedeling in order to use CoC or DB? You can do it faster by holding right click and moving left and right and at the same time jumping.

    PS: what are those last 14 keybinds?

    I'm enjoying this discussion

  6. #66
    Totally different games, you can't compare them at all.

  7. #67
    Pandaren Monk MaxJr's Avatar
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    Why are you asking this question? Theres nothing complicated about LoL. In the other hand being a good pvper in wow is hard as f, the amount of buttons you have to press and how fast you have to react to everything, just that makes wow pvp a thousand times more complicated that LoL.

  8. #68
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Fighting games take the most skill. They require years of practice and study to be good at and at the highest levels its all about genetics. It's the reason why there's no white people who win fighting game tournaments. Whites are inferior when compared to Blacks and Asians. Don't believe me? Watch some of the tournaments online.

    Most of being the best at something requires a natural ability. Everyone has their limits. Gifted people can push limits farther than 90% of people.

  9. #69
    Stood in the Fire LummyBear's Avatar
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    The people saying wow pvp is about killing someone in 2 second burst. Playing at 1200 rating makes this invalid.

    Ok so lol has items + 4 buttons. But item builds are basicly one way unless you want to gimp your self.. yes you have a few side options but thats about it. And for high end pvp in wow you got in some cases 4 orore action bars full . Mainly macros. And for items. There are a few different stat builds you can go. Not to mention swapping talents snd glyphs around depending on what your vs.

  10. #70
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebi View Post
    I hope you do realise the post was made in 2009 right? Heck even I got 2450 backpedeling and using 5 keybinds back then during early wrath. You can't compare current wow skill cap with one 4 years ago.
    You can - especcially since you're implying it was way easier back then, when I'd say the opposite might be true back in WotLK. I didn't realize cardinal directions went out of vogue in Cataclysm, please - do tell me more about what keybinds are no longer fashionable *popcorn*


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-j4QbMkXEg&list=UU1EzorgKMsjm0rQYS1D8pTA&feature=player_detailpage#t=56s--> I don't see you backpedel in order to avoid rogue backstab or feral shred it's just randomly slowing yourself for no reason what so ever.
    You caught me! I totally backpedaled during that Psychic Scream GCD, what a massive misplay on my part! All it did was put me more in range of the two of them... wait actually that last part was something good about backpedaling? Quick! Disregard logic, burn the evidence!


    "Conal spells like Dragon's Breath and Cone of Cold are frequently backpedaled just before use to make the cone go in the right direction" Mind giving example of CURRENT top rated mage backpedeling in order to use CoC or DB? You can do it faster by holding right click and moving left and right and at the same time jumping.
    You can press Right Mouse Button + A + D + Space + Cone of Cold, faster than you can press S + Cone of Cold? You make me want to link that Willy Wonka meme picture.

    PS: what are those last 14 keybinds?
    In the post where I listed 70, and then said "huh, guess I have 70 now - so what is your point, in the context of LoL/FPS/RTS/MMO's?" and you still have yet to say anything remotely on topic.

    I'm enjoying this discussion
    I said that to Hammock, with whom I'm actually having a good discussion. You're trying to troll me and failing, keep practicing though - maybe one day when your troll skills are better you can retake the Echo Isles from those meanie level 5 mobs who took it from you

    Lets not start trolling, ok? ~Nibe
    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-07-05 at 07:53 PM.
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  11. #71
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
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    I cant believe this is still going, if LoL is harder than WoW PvP then by that logic Dota is twice as hard. Which is rubbish. You cant compare Dota games to an MMO like WoW. Its on a different level.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post


    RTS - this frequently has higher keybinds than FPS, and makes greater usage of them - but still pales next to the keybinding concertos of WoW - competitive RTS usually involves 20 to 30 keybinds at the very most, which puts it at like a third to a quarter that of my Spriest.
    Lol what? Good starcraft player get way over 120 apms, you dont even have enough globals in wow to compete.

  13. #73
    The games that require the most skill at the highest level imo although less knowledge on MOBA as I refuse to play them but I still watch them competitively:

    SC: Brood War >>>>>>>>>> SC2 > Quake > CS 1.6 > Natural Selection 1/2 > DOTA2 > HoN > LoL > AvP2 > Halo > WoW > Call of Duty

    Comments on some of the games:

    - Brood War is so brutally tough compared to the rest. Only SC2 can compete with how complex, mechanically demanding, intellectually stimulating, memory dependent, mind games involved, emotionally dependent, meta development and strategy refinement of which these factors decide the overall complication of the game that even MOBAs are an utter joke in comparison.

    - Quake is up there as well. It's like StarCraft but FPS. Accuracy of twitch aim and tracking, movement, dodge, twitch reflexes, positioning, memory, map control, engagement terms and understanding, knowing your enemy and map specific strategy. Very fast paced gameplay with surprisingly intricate depth.

    - CS 1.6. More team oriented but still tough. Requires more accuracy and twitch reflexes than Quake overall except for railgun twitch. Lacks the individual depth of Quake but still stimulating for team play.

    - Natural Selection 1/2. A game most haven't heard of but by god is it hard. A unique game that employs the team play of a MOBA, the accuracy and positioning of Quake, the strategy of StarCraft and asymmetry of AvP2. You have to know how to play a flawlessly in multiple styles of play. Marine rifle, marine shotgun, fade, lerk, skulk, onos. All are different and all are difficult. You have to know how to play them all as teams swap races every round. Both races have a huge amount of depth. Teamwork is the forefront, possibly more teamwork and strategy than DOTA.

    - AvP2. An older game but one that I played for years. Asymmetry with multiple styles of play, less emphasis on teamwork but individually, it has a huge skill cap with the more tougher weapons. Nothing is quite like the speargun, combi, predalien or sniper in any other game. I'd possibly rank speargun even harder to use than railgun or LG from Quake despite it being a high damage weapon. It has a travel time and twitchy model movement make it difficult to hit fast and evasive targets. This game didn't have much of a competitive scene so the level of depth has never been explored fully.

    - LoL. I can't see how people would find this as a high skill cap game compared to most others on the list, even if you include teamplay. The only depth is how many variation of champions and builds there would be but this isn't even close to the depth than StarCraft would have. It's not a mechanically demanding game in the least. The only complication is the team play but I'd be willing to bet that it's lower than NS2, DOTA and CS 1.6. The only reason it's popular is because it's more casual and easier than the other MOBAs and it's genre is currently the "big thing" right now just how RTS was popular in the 90s but is virtually extinct now. There's a reason why lesser SC2 players switch to LoL.

    - Halo. Don't know too much about Halo as I never liked the multiplayer but I do know that this is a game where accuracy matters. Quite surprising for a console shooter. Being able to land consistent headshots is important. More of a duel based FPS where shots matter. Map control leads to weapons and buffs but due to helath regen, lacks the depth of engagement choice and stacking. A mix between Quake and CS 1.6.

    - WoW. At the highest highest highest level, I would say yeah that WoW is definitely tough. Despite what people think, there's more than 1shot macros and instant CC. A very imbalanced game that is highly dependent on class/comp but it still requires a lot of mechanical strength, knowledge of class spells, twitch reflexes and especially positioning. Coordination like a MOBA is probably the most important concept to grasp.

    - Call of Duty is imo, an absolute joke. Only promod for CoD4 is comparable. The main game is so easy that if you have half a working brain and some bare essentials then you can be a pub stomper. At the highest level, accuracy doesn't matter since it's a non issue to track your target, usually it's influenced by your connection and weapon/perks. The only individual skill I see in CoD is positioning. Team play falls short of anything on this list. The only communication that is used is to call out enemies, strategising on individual positions or for group assaults which is bare bones compared to NS2. CS 1.6 and Quake has all of this, a shit tonne more depth and a HUGE accuracy requirement to be competitive.

    My opinion. Some of it wrong but I do believe most is applicable, especially where RTS is defined as the most complex and most difficult. Nothing compares to it and is the only genre that is relatable to the complexity of Chess.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by RaZDaZ View Post
    The games that require the most skill at the highest level imo although less knowledge on MOBA as I refuse to play them but I still watch them competitively:

    SC: Brood War >>>>>>>>>> SC2 > Quake > CS 1.6 > Natural Selection 1/2 > DOTA2 > HoN > LoL > AvP2 > Halo > WoW > Call of Duty

    Comments on some of the games:

    - Brood War is so brutally tough compared to the rest. Only SC2 can compete with how complex, mechanically demanding, intellectually stimulating, memory dependent, mind games involved, emotionally dependent, meta development and strategy refinement of which these factors decide the overall complication of the game that even MOBAs are an utter joke in comparison.

    - Quake is up there as well. It's like StarCraft but FPS. Accuracy of twitch aim and tracking, movement, dodge, twitch reflexes, positioning, memory, map control, engagement terms and understanding, knowing your enemy and map specific strategy. Very fast paced gameplay with surprisingly intricate depth.

    - CS 1.6. More team oriented but still tough. Requires more accuracy and twitch reflexes than Quake overall except for railgun twitch. Lacks the individual depth of Quake but still stimulating for team play.

    - Natural Selection 1/2. A game most haven't heard of but by god is it hard. A unique game that employs the team play of a MOBA, the accuracy and positioning of Quake, the strategy of StarCraft and asymmetry of AvP2. You have to know how to play a flawlessly in multiple styles of play. Marine rifle, marine shotgun, fade, lerk, skulk, onos. All are different and all are difficult. You have to know how to play them all as teams swap races every round. Both races have a huge amount of depth. Teamwork is the forefront, possibly more teamwork and strategy than DOTA.

    - AvP2. An older game but one that I played for years. Asymmetry with multiple styles of play, less emphasis on teamwork but individually, it has a huge skill cap with the more tougher weapons. Nothing is quite like the speargun, combi, predalien or sniper in any other game. I'd possibly rank speargun even harder to use than railgun or LG from Quake despite it being a high damage weapon. It has a travel time and twitchy model movement make it difficult to hit fast and evasive targets. This game didn't have much of a competitive scene so the level of depth has never been explored fully.

    - LoL. I can't see how people would find this as a high skill cap game compared to most others on the list, even if you include teamplay. The only depth is how many variation of champions and builds there would be but this isn't even close to the depth than StarCraft would have. It's not a mechanically demanding game in the least. The only complication is the team play but I'd be willing to bet that it's lower than NS2, DOTA and CS 1.6. The only reason it's popular is because it's more casual and easier than the other MOBAs and it's genre is currently the "big thing" right now just how RTS was popular in the 90s but is virtually extinct now. There's a reason why lesser SC2 players switch to LoL.

    - Halo. Don't know too much about Halo as I never liked the multiplayer but I do know that this is a game where accuracy matters. Quite surprising for a console shooter. Being able to land consistent headshots is important. More of a duel based FPS where shots matter. Map control leads to weapons and buffs but due to helath regen, lacks the depth of engagement choice and stacking. A mix between Quake and CS 1.6.

    - WoW. At the highest highest highest level, I would say yeah that WoW is definitely tough. Despite what people think, there's more than 1shot macros and instant CC. A very imbalanced game that is highly dependent on class/comp but it still requires a lot of mechanical strength, knowledge of class spells, twitch reflexes and especially positioning. Coordination like a MOBA is probably the most important concept to grasp.

    - Call of Duty is imo, an absolute joke. Only promod for CoD4 is comparable. The main game is so easy that if you have half a working brain and some bare essentials then you can be a pub stomper. At the highest level, accuracy doesn't matter since it's a non issue to track your target, usually it's influenced by your connection and weapon/perks. The only individual skill I see in CoD is positioning. Team play falls short of anything on this list. The only communication that is used is to call out enemies, strategising on individual positions or for group assaults which is bare bones compared to NS2. CS 1.6 and Quake has all of this, a shit tonne more depth and a HUGE accuracy requirement to be competitive.

    My opinion. Some of it wrong but I do believe most is applicable, especially where RTS is defined as the most complex and most difficult. Nothing compares to it and is the only genre that is relatable to the complexity of Chess.

    Finally someone who seem to be reasonable. I don't understand how anyone could possibly compare the complexity of WoW to SC2 and BW.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by hammock View Post
    Going to buck the trend and say League.

    Yes Lol only has 4 abilities and a passive for each champ but to play the game well you need to learn all of them. Every Champ.
    Whereas in wow you only need to learn a handful of important abilities for each class.

    Positioning is more important in league due to brush,los,teammates,enemies. Getting cornered in league is a bad idea, whereas its no problem at all in wow.

    Awareness more important in league. Have to be aware of teammates, enemies, your surroundings, creeps/last hitting etc.

    Multiple build orders in league. Some items are better against certain comps/champs/situations,which you need to know.And you need to make sure your playing the right play style for said items. No point stacking ability power if your mainly doing attack damage. You barely need to think about items/stats in wow at all.

    Have to track gold/mana in LoL. Don't have to track mana at all in wow(depending on class/spec).

    Teamwork is alot more important in LoL than wow. Don't need to expand on that really.

    More tricks/clever use of mechanics in League. Flash through walls, placement of abilities, skill shots etc.
    I disagree completely.

    Some heros have abilities that you don't really need to know about. Ashe's arrow that makes things visible. you'll probably never say, "shit I wish I knew she could shoot that arrow and see me running here." It's probably more important to know how long AMS lasts. Memorizing DRs on Polly / Trap / hex. What CC's share DRs the fact some shamans can teleport totems.

    60% of all WoW Arena matches are lost to bad positioning. Healer or DPS wasn't in a good spot and ate CC / burst.

    Awareness is just as important. If you see an ele shaman blow Ascendance it's not smart to just stand still and let him cast. This also puts us back at positioning. Bad awareness = bad positioning.

    Multiple build orders, common you have "tanks" Support, All carry, AD, and a few others. It's not like a whole lot really changes whether you play Gangplank or Ashe you're going to stack a good ammount of AD. Ever try gearing a Shadowpriest and using the same shadow gear to heal at higher levels without the spirit. Unless you win in the first 2 min. You'll OOM.

    track gold/mana, common that's like saying I have to track my conquest points. I've seen people on massive spree's at the pro level float 1800g because they have just gotten 3 -4 kills in a row and haven't been able to port back.

    Teamwork is not more important. If anything I've been carried plenty of times in 5v5 matches while I was learning the game by friends who were gold/silver league. At the mid range of 1700+ on the bigger battle groups you won't be able to carry a 3rd person.

    With there being almost double the amount of spells in WoW I doubt you have more tricks / clever use of mechanics.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Lirina View Post
    I disagree completely.

    Some heros have abilities that you don't really need to know about. Ashe's arrow that makes things visible. you'll probably never say, "shit I wish I knew she could shoot that arrow and see me running here." It's probably more important to know how long AMS lasts. Memorizing DRs on Polly / Trap / hex. What CC's share DRs the fact some shamans can teleport totems.

    60% of all WoW Arena matches are lost to bad positioning. Healer or DPS wasn't in a good spot and ate CC / burst.

    Awareness is just as important. If you see an ele shaman blow Ascendance it's not smart to just stand still and let him cast. This also puts us back at positioning. Bad awareness = bad positioning.

    Multiple build orders, common you have "tanks" Support, All carry, AD, and a few others. It's not like a whole lot really changes whether you play Gangplank or Ashe you're going to stack a good ammount of AD. Ever try gearing a Shadowpriest and using the same shadow gear to heal at higher levels without the spirit. Unless you win in the first 2 min. You'll OOM.

    track gold/mana, common that's like saying I have to track my conquest points. I've seen people on massive spree's at the pro level float 1800g because they have just gotten 3 -4 kills in a row and haven't been able to port back.

    Teamwork is not more important. If anything I've been carried plenty of times in 5v5 matches while I was learning the game by friends who were gold/silver league. At the mid range of 1700+ on the bigger battle groups you won't be able to carry a 3rd person.

    With there being almost double the amount of spells in WoW I doubt you have more tricks / clever use of mechanics.
    You know, I was going to go point to point and refute all of your claims. However, when you used "common" in place of "come on" for the second time and compared two obviously dissimilar things to each other, like comparing checkers to robotic fuck machines, for example, I just decided to call you a fucking retard and leave it at that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    I cant believe this is still going, if LoL is harder than WoW PvP then by that logic Dota is twice as hard. You cant compare Dota games to an MMO like WoW. Its on a different level.
    I agree with this though, slightly fixed.

    Infracted
    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-07-05 at 11:35 PM.

  17. #77
    cant believe forums have sunk this low comparing wow to LOL, the two arent even close

  18. #78
    Might as well ask if an RTS is harder master than an FPS. Or if chess is harder than poker. Is soccer easier than basketball?

    And posts claiming one side shows the players bias IMO.

  19. #79
    I played LoL for a short amount of time and quit. It was extremely boring and very easy as soon as I played the green ninja girl with scythes. WoW PvP has way more going on. Not to mention it actually has game types.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    You can - especcially since you're implying it was way easier back then, when I'd say the opposite might be true back in WotLK. I didn't realize cardinal directions went out of vogue in Cataclysm, please - do tell me more about what keybinds are no longer fashionable *popcorn*




    You caught me! I totally backpedaled during that Psychic Scream GCD, what a massive misplay on my part! All it did was put me more in range of the two of them... wait actually that last part was something good about backpedaling? Quick! Disregard logic, burn the evidence!




    You can press Right Mouse Button + A + D + Space + Cone of Cold, faster than you can press S + Cone of Cold? You make me want to link that Willy Wonka meme picture.



    In the post where I listed 70, and then said "huh, guess I have 70 now - so what is your point, in the context of LoL/FPS/RTS/MMO's?" and you still have yet to say anything remotely on topic.



    I said that to Hammock, with whom I'm actually having a good discussion. You're trying to troll me and failing, keep practicing though - maybe one day when your troll skills are better you can retake the Echo Isles from those meanie level 5 mobs who took it from you

    Lets not start trolling, ok? ~Nibe
    1. "so what is your point, in the context of LoL/FPS/RTS/MMO's?" and you still have yet to say anything remotely on topic. " I did say something about the topic, if you check all my posts in this threat you'll see I did.

    2. "You caught me! I totally backpedaled during that Psychic Scream GCD, what a massive misplay on my part! All it did was put me more in range of the two of them... wait actually that last part was something good about backpedaling" There are multiple occasions where you backpedel for 1-2 seconds for no reason what so ever.

    3. "You can press Right Mouse Button + A + D + Space + Cone of Cold, faster than you can press S + Cone of Cold? You make me want to link that Willy Wonka meme picture." For second time mind tell me name of 1 good current mage who backpedels for CoC or DB. You just listed those keybinds just so it seems it's hard and takes more time. You always hod right mouse button, you press either A(Q in my case) or D(E in my case) and you use CoC you don't even have to jump. And what you said backpedel and use CoC that doesn't make any sense lol. So if enemy is on your right or left side you'll just backpedel 2-3 seconds until he's in range of edge of cone?

    4. "In the post where I listed 70, and then said "huh, guess I have 70 now"" no you listed 69 and that's far behind 83. So you actually lied to prove that WoW takes more skill than LoL but why did you lie?

    Just because you're a mod that doesn't mean you know more about the game than other people around here. Now you're making it as a joke with all sarcastic messages to avoid the fact that you lied and that you're wrong.

    PS: 1 name of currently high rated mage who backpedels for Cone of Cold or Dragon's Breath and you got yourself 20k on Outland or 15 eu on paypal.
    Last edited by Rebi; 2013-07-06 at 06:17 AM.

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