Still no Fire Nerfs and Frost Gets a New Mastery. Further updates at p22

[Polarthief]

What about haste evocation arcane for next patch, if there is that heavy movement then that would be higher dps and still is competitive, isn't it?

HasteVocation would be better (than Rune of Arcane) but probably still eh if it's heavy movement.

[Valanna]

HasteVocation would be better (than Rune of Arcane) but probably still eh if it's heavy movement.

Mastery build with IW would be more viable than haste/invocation build. The new set bonuses means arcane will be all about keeping high stacks together with high mana, very hard to do with inhibited regen.

[Polarthief]

Mastery build with IW would be more viable than haste/invocation build. The new set bonuses means arcane will be all about keeping high stacks together with high mana, very hard to do with inhibited regen.

Bah, right, forgot the set bonuses.

[SuperSirius]

Bah, right, forgot the set bonuses.

Yes, I think 1 stack of missiles 4set or 2set, w/e it is only takes off 8% mana from a 4 stack using arcane blast.

[ssviolett]

What I fear, with each such change introduced and scrapped the possibility of another hamfisted "hotfix 2.0" is growing and growing .. I hope frost changes will make it viable for a while (though it seems GC and co think that frost dps is "fine")

Frost dps is ok, its true, but the scaling is very bad. Make mastery more profitable, or increase cast time of frostbolt something. I like frost and I want to play frost in 5.4 if Blizzard will fix it.

[Polarthief]

Frost dps is ok, its true, but the scaling is very bad. Make mastery more profitable, or increase cast time of frostbolt something. I like frost and I want to play frost in 5.4 if Blizzard will fix it.

This, plus, I don't want to be forced to play Arcane to progress (because as we know, Blizzard LOVES to overnerf stuff [read: Fire] when they run out of time on PTR)

[ssviolett]

crit while we get crit, so our crits can crit and give us more crits.

This has blowed my mind.

[Vynestra]

I mean vykina, I'm in a 4/13 H guild, I thought arcane was useless on a fight like tortos tonight my first kill with them. (not their first kill) They put me on the boss and I did #3 on dmg for tortos, with movement, and with getting screwed over by the turtles in the first minute a crap ton.

Umm, idk about IW...Thats annoying. Lol...I think we could make RoP work on most of the fights, and IW on the rest if theres constant movement and dmg, pop IW stand in it for a second blink out, resume dps. It won't be viable as fire possibly, atleast on vykina's level of progression..But for the rest of us I think it'll just be like this tier dependent on how badly fire gets nerfed.

[Deleted]

Honestly, I think having such a big crit modifier is asking for problems.

what I'd do is:

Critical Mass reduced to 1.1X multiplier
AND
Pyromaniac now increases fire spells critical strike chance by 10%.

what this would mean is: if you now have 40% crit self buffed without critical mass, you'll have 52% with. after the chance, you have 55% crit, so a minor buff. but if you're lower itemlevel and only have 20% crit, you now would have 26% crit. after the change, you'd have 33% crit.

with this change, fire mages scale less exponentially. the increased crit chance is offset by the removal of the 10% damage buff from pyromaniac.

edit: this is a net buff until 55% crit before CM.

[voltaa]

Honestly, I think having such a big crit modifier is asking for problems.

what I'd do is:

Critical Mass reduced to 1.1X multiplier
AND
Pyromaniac now increases fire spells critical strike chance by 10%.

what this would mean is: if you now have 40% crit self buffed without critical mass, you'll have 52% with. after the chance, you have 55% crit, so a minor buff. but if you're lower itemlevel and only have 20% crit, you now would have 26% crit. after the change, you'd have 33% crit.

with this change, fire mages scale less exponentially. the increased crit chance is offset by the removal of the 10% damage buff from pyromaniac.

edit: this is a net buff until 55% crit before CM.

I like this idea, provided it would work the way you said and there isn't some unexpected issue that would arise from it, I'm actually kind of surprised blizz hasn't thought of something like this since it seems like a pretty simple fix

[Deleted]

You would buff fire till 55% then nerf "it a little bit"? What a punishment, what a fix for a fire mage to sit at 70% (67,2%) Crit. Really don´t think that would help. A static bonus yes, but get rid of the multiplier and overhaul the whole thing in 6.0.

[Deleted]

I will post here what I write in the French official forum :

I can't see what change is the most problematic :
-- PoM change is needed to make the other 2 more interesting. And how shit, you lost one Pyro every 180s. I'm think RNG have more impact than that.
-- glyph of combustion is DPS neutral as it increase both damage and cooldown.

And finally, balancing haven't started yet. So please, stop crying and make some useful comment.

[Deleted]

I mean vykina, I'm in a 4/13 H guild, I thought arcane was useless on a fight like tortos tonight my first kill with them. (not their first kill) They put me on the boss and I did #3 on dmg for tortos, with movement, and with getting screwed over by the turtles in the first minute a crap ton.

Umm, idk about IW...Thats annoying. Lol...I think we could make RoP work on most of the fights, and IW on the rest if theres constant movement and dmg, pop IW stand in it for a second blink out, resume dps. It won't be viable as fire possibly, atleast on vykina's level of progression..But for the rest of us I think it'll just be like this tier dependent on how badly fire gets nerfed.

That's all well and good for that fight Vynestra, but do you think when they were progressing on that boss they would have allowed you to just camp the boss? I'm a big believer of playing the spec you like most, hell I continued to play fire after the 5.1 + 3 nerfs as I wasn't holding back my guild by doing so. The guild I'm in now though I need to play the spec that's best for the encounters and Vykina would be in the same boat.

I have no doubt you could put out some decent numbers as Arcane, you may even finish mid-pack on the meters in your guild doing so. The point everyone is trying to make is that unless fire gets absolutely nerfed to the ground, a similar geared fire mage with the same skill level of a similar geared arcane mage would leave them in the dust as it is now on 5.4. As was also pointed out, if fire does get nerfed that badly, it will probably be to a point where top guilds wont take mages on progression as if Arcane is the only viable spec, the movement on these new fights will mean it's not optimal.

Seriously, look at the videos as was mentioned, the first boss you can stand still for a max of 3 seconds and you cannot go back to where you were until after a transition phase so RoP is impossible to use there. Unfortunately from the testing I've done, a lot of fights are like this.

- - - Updated - - -

I will post here what I write in the French official forum :

I can't see what change is the most problematic :
-- PoM change is needed to make the other 2 more interesting. And how shit, you lost one Pyro every 180s. I'm think RNG have more impact than that.
-- glyph of combustion is DPS neutral as it increase both damage and cooldown.

And finally, balancing haven't started yet. So please, stop crying and make some useful comment.

Yes, the PoM change was insignificant, but the Combustion one was not DPS neutral as it changed the alignment with CDs which is an extremely important part of the damage it does.

Also, why are you posting this crap? You realise the changes have been reverted right?

[Milamber]

what I'd do is:

Critical Mass reduced to 1.1X multiplier
AND
Pyromaniac now increases fire spells critical strike chance by 10%.

I would get rid of the multiplier completely, and only work with a flat additive Bonus to crit.

[Tobedeleted123]

I will post here what I write in the French official forum :

I can't see what change is the most problematic :
-- PoM change is needed to make the other 2 more interesting. And how shit, you lost one Pyro every 180s. I'm think RNG have more impact than that.
-- glyph of combustion is DPS neutral as it increase both damage and cooldown.

And finally, balancing haven't started yet. So please, stop crying and make some useful comment.

I generally hate the idea of nerfing one talent to make other 2 interesting. Just make those 2 goddamn talents better instead of nerfing the good one! But not gonna happen, because that requires some WORK and THINKING. Meh.

[Polarthief]

-- glyph of combustion is DPS neutral as it increase both damage and cooldown.

Nath, I'm a little disappointed in you for not thinking about this one. 1.5x (50% increase) of 45s is 67.5s (or 1 minute, 7.5 seconds), meaning it lines up worse with Alter Time and even PoM, as well as (usually) having less trinket uptime for Combustions.

To say the Combustion Glyph nerf is neutral isn't giving it a second thought.

[Deleted]

I never say it don't fuck up with star alignment but Blizzard have already respond to this.
The glyph in it-self is DPS neutral. If you want to keep it aligned, go without it and it will be aligned and you will have more combustion but less burst (I know it's a little dps loss).
They can change it back to combustion every 60s and 90s with glyph. Or 45s/90s, or simply remove the glyph.

It's not the first time that Blizzard break intentionally alignment. The Frost T14 change IV cooldown so it can only be aligned with AT one time per fight.

There's a great change that all of this change in few day.

(edit: And yes, I was trolling you. read my tweet, I have said the timer was strange, 2 day ago or something like this)

[awildpidgeyappears]

The first Combustion on the pull has everything procced. The glyph makes that buffed Combustion tick for twice as long. The glyph is not DPS-neutral.

[Huevos]

I never say it don't fuck up with star alignment but Blizzard have already respond to this.
The glyph in it-self is DPS neutral. If you want to keep it aligned, go without it and it will be aligned and you will have more combustion but less burst (I know it's a little dps loss).
They can change it back to combustion every 60s and 90s with glyph. Or 45s/90s, or simply remove the glyph.

It's not the first time that Blizzard break intentionally alignment. The Frost T14 change IV cooldown so it can only be aligned with AT one time per fight.

There's a great change that all of this change in few day.

(edit: And yes, I was trolling you. read my tweet, I have said the timer was strange, 2 day ago or something like this)

It's not a small dps loss to unglyph it, it is a very significant dps loss. Using the glyph shifts half of your combustion ticks pre-haste into the AT combustion sequences, which are substantially more powerful because they line up with 3 minute cooldowns (berserking for trolls) and your 1.5 minute cooldown, PoM, but also lets you get off longer pyro chains, make better use of potions, bloodlust, and other buffs, and makes your opener much stronger when you can essentially guarantee buffs.

If you think glyph of combustion is dps neutral you either don't play fire or you play fire very poorly.

[Deleted]

In fact, you explaining it badly.
The glyph is really really good because you can have a double damage combustion (for double cooldown) just after AT chain pyro resulting in Big ignite. The only 2 important thing is the fact that the glyph increase damage by 100% and that it can be lined with AT.

And this is why Blizzard want to cut it. Crit is so big in importance that even with only 2 minor change, the result is a huge nerf.
Why did you prefer?
having a big RNG resulting in very big damage or very bad result (max-min is around 130k for 200k+ dps) and having to wait for heroic gear for being playable.
or did you prefer to have less RNG with more average damage but the possibility to play fire from the start.

The second possibility is what lead Blizzard. They decide to revert all this change for something else. They do the same with Frost mastery, and we still waiting for the solution.