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  1. #361
    I really like the frost change, could we potentially see frost being viable next patch? I would ditch arcane for frosts new mastery in a heart beat aslong as it's viable.

  2. #362
    Nice to get combustion glyph and...POM back

  3. #363
    As main discussion goes here I'll provide a link to my calculations about new mastery here too: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post21797321
    Conclusion: from first view new mastery is a nerf to dps, not a buff.

  4. #364
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    We should probably pull the Frost discussion out of here. No point to have it in THREE threads when this thread was originally about Fire only.

    Free For All and New Mastery: Icicle! are both already discussing the Frost changes.

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  5. #365
    I dont think there will be a nerf to CM, when it went from 1.5 multiplier to 1.3 in 5.1 (or when it was, cant quite remember). It destroyed fresh (as in 5man HC running) Fire Mages. Straight up nerfing it to 1.2 or 1.1 will further ruin low geared fire mages.

    But like some of the ideas you have thrown out here concerning CM that is far better alternatives than a flat nerf to the multiplier. I think I lost around 7% crit when it went from 1.5 to 1.3, and thats a hard punch to the face for a fire mage.

    But I got a general question about CM aswell, Ive not managed to find an answer for this so I will ask here. Does the CM only affect your non-buffed crit, or do the buffs and such gain from it aswell? Should I multiply my 38% unbuffed crit with 1.3 to find my real crit % or should i multiply what my character sheet crit % shows me during raids, which is somewhere around 50%? Does Molten Armor and Arcane Brilliance give us 10% crit or 13% crit?

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaman View Post
    I dont think there will be a nerf to CM, when it went from 1.5 multiplier to 1.3 in 5.1 (or when it was, cant quite remember). It destroyed fresh (as in 5man HC running) Fire Mages. Straight up nerfing it to 1.2 or 1.1 will further ruin low geared fire mages.

    But like some of the ideas you have thrown out here concerning CM that is far better alternatives than a flat nerf to the multiplier. I think I lost around 7% crit when it went from 1.5 to 1.3, and thats a hard punch to the face for a fire mage.

    But I got a general question about CM aswell, Ive not managed to find an answer for this so I will ask here. Does the CM only affect your non-buffed crit, or do the buffs and such gain from it aswell? Should I multiply my 38% unbuffed crit with 1.3 to find my real crit % or should i multiply what my character sheet crit % shows me during raids, which is somewhere around 50%? Does Molten Armor and Arcane Brilliance give us 10% crit or 13% crit?
    Buffed crit, to find out your crit chance you would add up all buffs, set bonus etc, subtract 3% then multiply it by 1.3

  7. #367
    Thanks for clearing that up for me!, but wont the -3% be subtracted after multiplying it all by 1.3?

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaman View Post
    Thanks for clearing that up for me!, but wont the -3% be subtracted after multiplying it all by 1.3?
    Nope, as the multiplier only affects some of our spells..

  9. #369
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaman View Post
    I dont think there will be a nerf to CM, when it went from 1.5 multiplier to 1.3 in 5.1 (or when it was, cant quite remember). It destroyed fresh (as in 5man HC running) Fire Mages. Straight up nerfing it to 1.2 or 1.1 will further ruin low geared fire mages.
    It was actually 1.2 originally on the 5.1 Hotfix (3 days after 5.1 went Live, and that's why there was such an uproar from the Mage community because why in the fuck didn't they even TEST that?). They then buffed it back up a bit to 1.3, which it is now.

    Lower geared Fire Mages are already ruined. TBH I'm intrigued that GC cares about lower geared Fires at all now, despite both 5.1 and 5.2 gimping them to hell.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaman View Post
    Thanks for clearing that up for me!, but wont the -3% be subtracted after multiplying it all by 1.3?
    (Character Sheet Crit [X] -3%) * 1.3 = Your crit chance [Y]

    Y + 6.5% = Pyroblast's Crit [This is assuming you have 4P T15]

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  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post

    Lower geared Fire Mages are already ruined.
    Fire is ruined everytime there is Ilevel scaling involved... 463 is just laughable for fire nowdays.. and they seem to make every "skill based" and hard content scale to 463.. yay

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    Fire is ruined everytime there is Ilevel scaling involved... 463 is just laughable for fire nowdays.. and they seem to make every "skill based" and hard content scale to 463.. yay
    Yeah...that's a shame for fire mages, frost is the best at that ilvl by far lol.

  12. #372
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    Fire is ruined everytime there is Ilevel scaling involved... 463 is just laughable for fire nowdays.. and they seem to make every "skill based" and hard content scale to 463.. yay
    At least Frost shines super-bright at this level

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  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    First of all no it's not about me being a better player, it's about me being able to play the spec I like and it actually being viable. Right now as it stands fire is way too strong. If I want to be brought to my raids in 5.4 right now I'd have to be fire. If there are no changes or the changes are not that great, and nothing to balance out arcanes lack of movement I may be FORCED to go a spec I HATE because blizzard can't balance their damned classes.

    Let me ask you how would you feel if you played fire the whole expansion and absolutely HATE arcane and can't stand it, but arcane does over 100k more dps than fire, would you sit there and be like "Oh well dps doesn't matter when we're hitting enrage times, I am just gonna lolololohavefun and play the spec I want!" If you are a progression raider I HIGHLY doubt that'd be your response.
    Pretty sure I played Arcane for an entire tier this expansion. Also, nerfing Fire will not help Arcane's innate movement penalties.
    Last edited by Juddalenko; 2013-07-19 at 02:25 AM.

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Juddalenko View Post
    Pretty sure I played Arcane for an entire tier this expansion. Also, nerfing Fire will not help Arcane's innate movement penalties.
    I'm partially giving up on arcane being viable at all for next patch. Really relying on a fire nerf and a frost buff.

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by Juddalenko View Post
    Pretty sure I played Arcane for an entire tier this expansion. Also, nerfing Fire will not help Arcane's innate movement penalties.
    Make Rune of Power follow you around for Arcane and all spells castable while moving GG no movement issues.

  16. #376
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    Make Rune of Power follow you around for Arcane and all spells castable while moving GG no movement issues.

    Which will then go through the cycle of Warlock KJC. Nerfed then buffed back to normal with a lesser version.
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  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    Make Rune of Power follow you around for Arcane and all spells castable while moving GG no movement issues.
    Yeah not happening lol. Arcane is pretty much dead next patch. I am now working on the decision to go fire or frost. And I think I have known and know which it will be. Not sure why I keep holding on to a glimmer of hope that I could go frost or stay arcane. I am kind of exhausted of this whole waiting to see what I get to play in 5.4. I am really not happy by the fact I am pretty sure I'll be forced fire to be viable. Really unsettling and displeases me more than anything right now in the game. 5.4 will be ruined for my by the fact that I'll be forced to play the spec I hate so I can raid.

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Which will then go through the cycle of Warlock KJC. Nerfed then buffed back to normal with a lesser version.
    Exactly, arcane would be far too strong with movement. Fire is a great fun spec and Frost has always been the Pvp spec, I dont know what game people have been playing.

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by unholyness View Post
    Exactly, arcane would be far too strong with movement. Fire is a great fun spec and Frost has always been the Pvp spec, I dont know what game people have been playing.
    That is your opinion. I personally HATE fire. And frost doesn't need to be the pvp spec. It can be pve viable, in fact it was a little pve viable at the start of the xpac, up until about tot gear then fire pulls ahead.

    I don't want to be fucking forced fire because blizzard can't balance their damned classes. This whole situation has me pissed off to no end. I want arcane or frost, not fire. WHY is that a hard thing to ask? Why. Why is it hard to ask to have 2 specs viable for raiding. It's not, it happened this patch Frost was ALMOST as viable as arcane/fire, it just scales too poorly to keep up. So why should next patch we be forced into fire. Blizzard made the raid heavy movement and it doesn't look like anything is being done to fix arcanes movement issues. So I hope that's why they're trying to make frost more viable..But who the hell knows at this point.

  20. #380
    Mechagnome Frost1129's Avatar
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    People should be able to look at the history of a class before picking to make it their main. Maybe then people would realize fire is the raid spec is status quo for mages, it's just the way it is.

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