Page 20 of 42 FirstFirst ...
10
18
19
20
21
22
30
... LastLast
  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost1129 View Post
    People should be able to look at the history of a class before picking to make it their main. Maybe then people would realize fire is the raid spec is status quo for mages, it's just the way it is.
    Really? I started raiding on my mage in cata. The spec to be was arcane until DS. So...How does that work really? arcane 2/3 of cata fire 1/3 of cata. Frost beat out fire at the start of this patch, then fire pulled ahead and got nerfed. Now fire and arcane are even split this patch. Then fire will be the best next patch.


    I wouldn't call that status quo, so keep your snarky remarks to yourself. You're deliberately aiming that at me, and pointing at me like I am an idiot because I want to play more than ONE spec for my class for raiding. It's a dumb philosophy if ONLY one spec can ever be "the raiding spec" It's stupid. That's why blizzard is trying very hard to balance the specs out. If not they just wouldn't bother balancing fire.

    If they didn't want to balance out mages, they wouldn't nerf fire. They wouldn't change frost. Also, what use does arcane have outside of raiding? Not pvp, frost is better at lower ilvls than arcane...You mentioned before each spec has a utility if it doesn't raid. Oh wait arcane has none. Your points are invalid, so stop trying to turn this into a "Fire mages is always, will always, has always been the best mage spec and should rightfully be so the best mage spec for ever and ever for raiding" argument. Because it's getting us NOWHERE.

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    Really? I started raiding on my mage in cata. The spec to be was arcane until DS. So...How does that work really? arcane 2/3 of cata fire 1/3 of cata. Frost beat out fire at the start of this patch, then fire pulled ahead and got nerfed. Now fire and arcane are even split this patch. Then fire will be the best next patch.
    In DS, at least if you happened to be a Gnome, arcane was better on most fights past fire nerf.. Also I wouldn't call fire and arcane even split this patch.

  3. #383
    Fire was still better than Frost at the start of this patch, tbh. It's just that we all had Mastery/Haste gear from T14, which lent itself more toward Frost.

  4. #384
    Mechagnome Frost1129's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    MD, USA
    Posts
    711
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    Really? I started raiding on my mage in cata. The spec to be was arcane until DS. So...How does that work really? arcane 2/3 of cata fire 1/3 of cata. Frost beat out fire at the start of this patch, then fire pulled ahead and got nerfed. Now fire and arcane are even split this patch. Then fire will be the best next patch.


    I wouldn't call that status quo, so keep your snarky remarks to yourself. You're deliberately aiming that at me, and pointing at me like I am an idiot because I want to play more than ONE spec for my class for raiding. It's a dumb philosophy if ONLY one spec can ever be "the raiding spec" It's stupid. That's why blizzard is trying very hard to balance the specs out. If not they just wouldn't bother balancing fire.

    If they didn't want to balance out mages, they wouldn't nerf fire. They wouldn't change frost. Also, what use does arcane have outside of raiding? Not pvp, frost is better at lower ilvls than arcane...You mentioned before each spec has a utility if it doesn't raid. Oh wait arcane has none. Your points are invalid, so stop trying to turn this into a "Fire mages is always, will always, has always been the best mage spec and should rightfully be so the best mage spec for ever and ever for raiding" argument. Because it's getting us NOWHERE.
    Vanilla post BWL was fire. BC was fire, ignoring the small point in time when you got to play arcane due to SCC/TK tier bonus, WoTLK was fire until you had ridiculous ICC gear, Cata was fire for a long time, with periods of arcane for certain fights (Like if you had the legendary / shard or woe, or were progression on heroic spine). MoP has been the only expansion where non-fire raiding (outside excursions in arcane) has been tolerated. And fire if still the spec people are trying to shoot for, even with Frost being acceptable and arcane being pretty decent this tier.

    My point is they've always had to balance mages around fire - just like they are now. And they've almost always failed. Being upset about being forced into fire because they are probably going to fail again makes no sense given our history with raiding and spec balance. I don't particularly care which spec they end up making the best, I'll play whichever brings my raid the most DPS. But being all - I can't believe frost/arcane is so bad and fire is so good is pretty fucking mindblowing given the context of our raiding history.

  5. #385
    Field Marshal
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Penacova, Portugal
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost1129 View Post
    Vanilla post BWL was fire. BC was fire, ignoring the small point in time when you got to play arcane due to SCC/TK tier bonus, WoTLK was fire until you had ridiculous ICC gear, Cata was fire for a long time, with periods of arcane for certain fights (Like if you had the legendary / shard or woe, or were progression on heroic spine). MoP has been the only expansion where non-fire raiding (outside excursions in arcane) has been tolerated. And fire if still the spec people are trying to shoot for, even with Frost being acceptable and arcane being pretty decent this tier.

    My point is they've always had to balance mages around fire - just like they are now. And they've almost always failed. Being upset about being forced into fire because they are probably going to fail again makes no sense given our history with raiding and spec balance. I don't particularly care which spec they end up making the best, I'll play whichever brings my raid the most DPS. But being all - I can't believe frost/arcane is so bad and fire is so good is pretty fucking mindblowing given the context of our raiding history.
    Its pretty easy to dispell that argument, look at hunters, rogues, and warlocks. Try to find out if they've always rolled the same spec.
    They're trying to make it so that all specs bring relatively close DPS, and that's what they should do. You shouldn't have to sit on your ass doing something you don't enjoy, in a game. Its bad enough some of us have to do it at our jobs.

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost1129 View Post
    Vanilla post BWL was fire. BC was fire, ignoring the small point in time when you got to play arcane due to SCC/TK tier bonus, WoTLK was fire until you had ridiculous ICC gear, Cata was fire for a long time, with periods of arcane for certain fights (Like if you had the legendary / shard or woe, or were progression on heroic spine). MoP has been the only expansion where non-fire raiding (outside excursions in arcane) has been tolerated. And fire if still the spec people are trying to shoot for, even with Frost being acceptable and arcane being pretty decent this tier.

    Yet pre-AQ it was all frost pretty much.. In BC playing fire was a waste of time really, it never got to a point of being good enough, your time was better served playing another class, In WotLK, If I remember it right it started with Arcane the go to spec, fire being decent in Ulduar, not super good though, then again arcane being better in ToC and Fire pulling ahead again in ICC due to all the crit. In cata it started with Frost in BoT/BWD/Throne then moved to fire for combustion cleave on some bosses to arcane when we got Shard, and then came arcane "fixes" and Arcane was the go to spec for Firelands, and in DS fire started strong due to the redic buffs it got, but after the nerf Fire was better in certain fights for sure, but if you weren't a troll Arcane was as good or better on all fights exept Madness, hagara and Yor'sahj..


    So ye your argument kinda goes out the window I guess, Arcane has been more used in raiding than fire since WotLK launched at least if you count MoP into it as well. Frost has been the real lackluster in raiding since forever though.

  7. #387
    The Patient Wiredmana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    247
    They really need not to recreate Frost Mastery, but to get rid of the damn Frostbolt debuff. It's terrible for fights we have to keep changing targets, there's adds or there's a lot of movement in one period of time.

  8. #388
    Pandaren Monk Archimand's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Gensokyo
    Posts
    1,816
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Which will then go through the cycle of Warlock KJC just in mage version. Nerfed then buffed before the ptr patch even go live and compensated by a buff to another spell for a nerf that didnt happen.
    fixed it for you ... sad but true
    "The speed of light is faster than the speed of sound.
    That's why so many people look smart until they start talking."
    Archimand - On Demand Breeding List Link
    FC-0404-6893-4293 Fire safari Larvesta/Growlithe/Braixen IGN: X Archimand, Y Shina.

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    Yet pre-AQ it was all frost pretty much.. In BC playing fire was a waste of time really, it never got to a point of being good enough, your time was better served playing another class, In WotLK, If I remember it right it started with Arcane the go to spec, fire being decent in Ulduar, not super good though, then again arcane being better in ToC and Fire pulling ahead again in ICC due to all the crit. In cata it started with Frost in BoT/BWD/Throne then moved to fire for combustion cleave on some bosses to arcane when we got Shard, and then came arcane "fixes" and Arcane was the go to spec for Firelands, and in DS fire started strong due to the redic buffs it got, but after the nerf Fire was better in certain fights for sure, but if you weren't a troll Arcane was as good or better on all fights exept Madness, hagara and Yor'sahj..

    So ye your argument kinda goes out the window I guess, Arcane has been more used in raiding than fire since WotLK launched at least if you count MoP into it as well. Frost has been the real lackluster in raiding since forever though.
    Despite your discussion of pre-AQ Vanilla, Vanilla was all Fire when you actually had a choice between the two specs. Fire was not an option in MC/BWL--and not just a "this does less DPS so it's not as viable" not-an-option, but an "all the mobs are immune to all of my spells so I actually do 0 damage" not-an-option. Viscidus is a similar situation.

    And the beginning of WotLK was FFB, not Arcane, until 3.0.8 when they buffed Arcane (first too much, if anyone remembers double dipping AB charges with Missile Barrage and ABarr, and then they hotfixed it), and then Fire took over again in Ulduar.

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Morpheuspt View Post
    Its pretty easy to dispell that argument, look at hunters, rogues, and warlocks. Try to find out if they've always rolled the same spec.
    They're trying to make it so that all specs bring relatively close DPS, and that's what they should do. You shouldn't have to sit on your ass doing something you don't enjoy, in a game. Its bad enough some of us have to do it at our jobs.
    I'm glad someone see's it from my point of view. And in cata arcane pulled higher than fire everytime I ran with fire anyway. Until DS which is when I stopped raiding mid FL.

    I just want frost to do around what fire does. Not really hard to ask lol. I don't care if fire does 5k or 10k more. Just bring them AROUND the same dps. So I can shine as frost or fire. Or arcane...But we know how that is looking next patch

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by awildpidgeyappears View Post
    Despite your discussion of pre-AQ Vanilla, Vanilla was all Fire when you actually had a choice between the two specs. Fire was not an option in MC/BWL--and not just a "this does less DPS so it's not as viable" not-an-option, but an "all the mobs are immune to all of my spells so I actually do 0 damage" not-an-option. Viscidus is a similar situation.

    And the beginning of WotLK was FFB, not Arcane, until 3.0.8 when they buffed Arcane (first too much, if anyone remembers double dipping AB charges with Missile Barrage and ABarr, and then they hotfixed it), and then Fire took over again in Ulduar.
    Mm, I suppose, but fire did work on some bosses in BWL and MC, and you could frostbolt spam if not anything else as fire, so it kinda worked even before they moved away from the immune bosses..

    And I don't really remember anything from WotLK, I really couldn't care abt the rehashed Naxx and played my rogue in Ulduar, I just remember mages being fire in ulduar, and when I geared and switched to my mage as a main again, in ToC incanter's pushed Arcane infront again.. but really it's such a long time ago, and my post was just to say that we have played arcane just as fire much if not more since they decided to make arcane a real spec.. Now a whole another topic is why have other mage specs been awful whenever 1 has been good or really good

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post

    I just want frost to do around what fire does. Not really hard to ask lol. I don't care if fire does 5k or 10k more. Just bring them AROUND the same dps. So I can shine as frost or fire. Or arcane...But we know how that is looking next patch
    Mm, though they need to fix some things from every spec.. to make it truly a choice on what spec to play. Fire has cleave and mobility, but really weak AoE, target swithing and multitarget. Arcane has multitarget, somewhat decent cleave, substained AoE and target switching, but has mobility issues. Frost has bursty AoE, a bit lower multitarget, and worse target switching than arcane, but no mobility problems.

    So it really won't be play any spec, rather play spec that suits the encounter.. And I kinda hate that aspect atm, it's fine for progress(if you have the gear), but when you start farming easyer stuff, you are expected to clear to progress in few hours and there really ain't time to respec 5 times in between.

    They would really need to fix AoE, target switching and multitarget for fire. Mobility for Arcane, and frost needs to get rid of the frostbolt ramp up. And then bring the specs to around same single target damage. Maybe even give frost cleave. So you could truly choose a spec and stick with it rather than feeling that you could do the job better as another spec, but you cba, have no gear, have no desire, don't have time or money to respec for that given fight.

    I mean sure it's good that specs have weaknesses, but atm those too big to overcome atm. Fire is naturally the strongest atm, cause most of the fights are based on mobility or single target damage possibly with cleave or some other mechanics that suits fire and fairly rarely have some sort of mechanic that makes fire bad cause of it's weaknesses.. or that was how ToT was at least.

    But hey that is just what I think abt the issues. Not to mention terrible talents, mandatory glyphs to certain specs and not enough useful glyphs.

  12. #392
    Brewmaster
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,292
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimand View Post
    fixed it for you ... sad but true
    I'd love to hear all about the times this happened.

  13. #393
    I think Fire's abysmal AoE is the only thing that upsets me about an otherwise very enjoyable spec. — Especially looking toward SoO, where there are lots of fights with lots of adds (Nazgrim and KDS immediately spring to mind), in which our lock will just Immo Aura his way to a kajillion DPS while I ... Flamestrike once in a while?

  14. #394
    High Overlord Adeltor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    K 1914 AX
    Posts
    139
    Guys help please. Where could i find the new glyphs on the PTR? Is there a vendor or something, or only the Inscribers? I really really wanna see the Unbound Elemental glyph, but sadly i just can't seem to find it. There are none in the AH aswell. Sorry for stupid question.
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by zomgDPS View Post
    I want to feel the zomg in my dpspants when I throw pyros at someones face. How do you keep that feeling of 'zomg' in your pants while still nerfing throughput?

    Sig by Shyama!

  15. #395
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    France
    Posts
    1,168
    Quote Originally Posted by Adeltor View Post
    Guys help please. Where could i find the new glyphs on the PTR? Is there a vendor or something, or only the Inscribers? I really really wanna see the Unbound Elemental glyph, but sadly i just can't seem to find it. There are none in the AH aswell. Sorry for stupid question.
    not a stupid question.
    because it's a PTR, nobody farm and the only way to craft them is by transferring an Inscriber.
    The answers is 42
    -------------------------
    Nathyiel, TempteÐ (sargeras-EU) - @Nathyiel

  16. #396
    Dreadlord
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Germany/BW
    Posts
    901
    Our Incriber can`t learn the new glyph : /

  17. #397
    High Overlord Adeltor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    K 1914 AX
    Posts
    139
    I transferred my DK who is an Inscriber 600 with all possible glyphs in-game already learned. I even crafted a Scroll of Wisdom (the pandaria research tool) ON the PTR and I didn't get any of the new glyphs. How can Blizz recieve feedback on say the elemental, when noone is able to see it? This is retarded.
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by zomgDPS View Post
    I want to feel the zomg in my dpspants when I throw pyros at someones face. How do you keep that feeling of 'zomg' in your pants while still nerfing throughput?

    Sig by Shyama!

  18. #398
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    The Frozen North
    Posts
    1,988
    Glyph item parts aren't implemented yet. You literally cannot get them this build. Just wait.

  19. #399
    Epic! Valanna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    1,642
    So who else is tired of Vynestra's rambling in this thread about fire nerfs? Isn't 20 off topic post enough? Make another thread already, hate on fire all you want.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Trolling will result in the loss of your forum posting privileges, and the removal of your genitals with my teeth while I hum Oasis songs.

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Valanna View Post
    So who else is tired of Vynestra's rambling in this thread about fire nerfs? Isn't 20 off topic post enough? Make another thread already, hate on fire all you want.
    People whine all the time about Fire. As if Frost with a pet doing dmg for you takes any sort of skill. Arcane is 2-3 buttons and feels almost as face roll as last tier with scorch weaving. I am guessing they are rather bad at Fire so they whine about it so they dont have to play it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •