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  1. #401
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    Blizz has a different definition of "viable" than players do. GC's Dev interview at the start of ToT pretty much confirms this. As a long as a spec performs well enough to not get sat, Blizz doesn't care if its dps is not good. GC has even said that players care too much about performance. Will Frost or Arcane be as good as Fire next patch? Probably not even close. Will Frost or Arcane be just good enough for progression? Probably. They simply don't care to make all the specs truly balanced. That's true for every class.

  2. #402
    High Overlord Vaelkder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unholyness View Post
    People whine all the time about Fire. As if Frost with a pet doing dmg for you takes any sort of skill. Arcane is 2-3 buttons and feels almost as face roll as last tier with scorch weaving. I am guessing they are rather bad at Fire so they whine about it so they dont have to play it.
    I didn't know if I should be angry, or just laugh at your accuracy. I started as Arcane, which I love, then was asked by my guild to switch to Fire, which was a complete disaster for me (the RNG gods HATE me... there was one instance when I went with 18 casts in a row without a single Crit, and that was about the norm for me!). I'm playing Frost now, because the numbers are really good with the crazy gemming and reforging to get it to work at a decent ilvl, but I will always miss Arcane, and I will always wonder what Fire is like if my RNG were better.

    Have a great weekend, everyone!

    "Never underestimate the depth of stupidity." Robert Heinlein

  3. #403
    I am guessing we'll see another ptr build mon or tues probably. That is my guess anyway. I'm sure we'll all be on the look out. I do want to say I am pleased with how the legnedary scales. It now scales with 100% sp as the dmg done over 4 seconds. On the ptr testing it ended up being about 2% ish of dmg done.

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by unholyness View Post
    People whine all the time about Fire. As if Frost with a pet doing dmg for you takes any sort of skill. Arcane is 2-3 buttons and feels almost as face roll as last tier with scorch weaving. I am guessing they are rather bad at Fire so they whine about it so they dont have to play it.
    Its true. I played frost for a while, and i just let my pet dps, and i was doing 1237128973618723612 DPS.
    Why the hell do you have to be such an elitist butthole?
    Like fire is that much harder.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelkder View Post
    I didn't know if I should be angry, or just laugh at your accuracy. I started as Arcane, which I love, then was asked by my guild to switch to Fire, which was a complete disaster for me (the RNG gods HATE me... there was one instance when I went with 18 casts in a row without a single Crit, and that was about the norm for me!). I'm playing Frost now, because the numbers are really good with the crazy gemming and reforging to get it to work at a decent ilvl, but I will always miss Arcane, and I will always wonder what Fire is like if my RNG were better.

    Have a great weekend, everyone!
    I'm sorry, but I feel you people who complain about fire being super rng and casting 15+ TIMES without a crit are either in 463 gear or just flat out liars. I watch plenty of streams a new a decent amount of fire mages, and these absurd amounts of cast you people proclaim without getting a crit is just highly doubtful. So much rng has been removed with this tier i don't see howit possible. There's no way you should go more than 10 cast without a crit nowadays. So I sorry, I'm gunna have to call bullshit on ur claim that 18 casts in a row was about the norm for you.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Shangalar; 2013-07-20 at 08:35 PM.

  6. #406
    High Overlord Vaelkder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aycheff View Post
    I'm sorry, but I feel you people who complain about fire being super rng and casting 15+ TIMES without a crit are either in 463 gear or just flat out liars. I watch plenty of streams a new a decent amount of fire mages, and these absurd amounts of cast you people proclaim without getting a crit is just highly doubtful. So much rng has been removed with this tier i don't see howit possible. There's no way you should go more than 10 cast without a crit nowadays. So I sorry, I'm gunna have to call bullshit on ur claim that 18 casts in a row was about the norm for you.
    Claim any- and everything that you desire, but facts are facts, and whether you have your head in the sand, or in some area of your anatomy, is irrelevant to me, as you weren't there and didn't experience it.

    I had a LOT of help from some of the amazing people who post regularly here on MMO Champion, with more than a few of them sending me private messages on how to help to learn to play Fire more efficiently and to USE what happens, with or without procs. Yes, there were some amazing numbers, but for some reason the majority of the time I didn't have the Crits which are so very important to produce those mind-boggling DPS numbers which have been reported for a very long time.

    I do realize that I played Fire for two months before switching to Frost, and that I didn't give myself enough time to learn about the ways to overcome a bad streak of luck and to still have a nice DPS output. Regardless of all of this, there is no reason at all to attack me or anyone else, using profanity to attempt to bolster your position, when that does nothing except to prove that you're just another tacky cyber bully who is the product of too many swirlies and is trying to get his nerd rage on.

    I will stick with the people who have been unfailingly helpful, with both wit and suggestions, who make this site what it is.

    "Never underestimate the depth of stupidity." Robert Heinlein

  7. #407
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    He did say that it was 18 casts in a row *one time* which is statistically quite possible, if somewhat unlikely. No reason for the hostility.

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    He did say that it was 18 casts in a row *one time* which is statistically quite possible, if somewhat unlikely. No reason for the hostility.
    Mm, when playing with chances, anything can happen, I mean I have had pulls with 19k crit rating + both HC TF trinkets proccing that my fireball just hasn't crited before first LB expires, even longer sometimes.. I mean that is no 18 spells, but it's goddamn unlikely, but yet it happens and ruins your pull dps..

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    He did say that it was 18 casts in a row *one time* which is statistically quite possible, if somewhat unlikely. No reason for the hostility.
    He also said its "about the norm" for him, but ah. I'll just drop it there

  10. #410
    High Overlord Vaelkder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aycheff View Post
    He also said its "about the norm" for him, but ah. I'll just drop it there
    My "normal" was very bad most of the time. The 18 times when I had no Crits was the absolute worst, but there were many times when it was ten or more, and sometimes a bit worse. That is what MY "norm" was, even though it was not what the vast majority of people experienced playing the Fire Spec. In the eight weeks that I raided 25 man Normal as Fire, I had three times when everything lined up and I had phenomenal DPS numbers, topping the charts and leaving everyone wondering what happened that I suddenly blew the doors down on everyone. Those times were memorable and I will look at them as the "aha moment" when I thought that I had finally gotten the hang of Fire. I learned an amazing amount from the people here on MMO Champion, and I am hoping that I will learn even more, so that I might, someday, come back to Fire and have an enjoyable experience of it, as so many others do.

    Oh... To answer the "463 ilvl" charge, when I switched to Fire, I had an ilvl of 524 and was just about to get the 600 cape. My RNG was still horrible, and I'll always wonder what could have been, had I had a better time of it, especially with all of the encouragement from quite a few of the people here.

    "Never underestimate the depth of stupidity." Robert Heinlein

  11. #411
    It really isn't that bad RNG wise. It just isn't. Is it possible that sometimes something crappy will happen? Yes. Will it be often unless you're the most unlucky person to ever walk the earth? No. It's more likely player error than this 1 in a bajillion chance of this RNG happening consistently at least in my experiences of playing fire this expansion from the time I hit 90 to 496 ilvl before we went arcane and then from 500 ilvl to 544.

  12. #412
    High Overlord Vaelkder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkey One View Post
    It really isn't that bad RNG wise. It just isn't. Is it possible that sometimes something crappy will happen? Yes. Will it be often unless you're the most unlucky person to ever walk the earth? No. It's more likely player error than this 1 in a bajillion chance of this RNG happening consistently at least in my experiences of playing fire this expansion from the time I hit 90 to 496 ilvl before we went arcane and then from 500 ilvl to 544.
    I agree thoroughly with you about this. I was very ill-equipped in my knowledge when I switched from Arcane to Fire Spec, even though so very many people here on MMO Champion offered a great deal of advice and encouragement. Eight weeks simply wasn't enough time to learn everything which would have helped me to become much better, and I openly admit this. I do wish that it would have been otherwise, but when a guild is progressing, I personally feel that I should do what is best for the greater good, which is why I stopped playing Arcane in the first place.

    With 5.4 on the horizon, and the PTR being updated regularly, I'm hoping that there will be enough time to decide what Spec would be best for me to play in order to remain a contributing member of my guild, and that I will have the chance to practice and learn more, so that I might play with confidence.

    Again, I'm sure that the advice in the forums here will be of great help, and I thank everyone who has been so very generous with their time and knowledge.

    "Never underestimate the depth of stupidity." Robert Heinlein

  13. #413
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    I think people are using the wrong words when they say they don't like fire because of bad RNG.

    I think its more along the lines of: I don't like how the playstyle changes according to RNG and the getting of lots of big crits doesn't make up for those occasional bad streaks of RNG.

    I had bad luck a few times when I tried fire for a few days but it wasn't what made me dislike the spec. It was the overall playstyle and feeling of the spec that I found annoying.
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  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by jtmzac View Post
    I think people are using the wrong words when they say they don't like fire because of bad RNG.

    I think its more along the lines of: I don't like how the playstyle changes according to RNG and the getting of lots of big crits doesn't make up for those occasional bad streaks of RNG.

    I had bad luck a few times when I tried fire for a few days but it wasn't what made me dislike the spec. It was the overall playstyle and feeling of the spec that I found annoying.
    For my mage Fire is the only spec I live by. Its part of his/(my lore about him), his character, his style, and everything about him not just playstyle. I just wish they would stop giving everything to frost and show my favorite spec some visual love.

  15. #415
    I am starting to lose faith that frost or arcane are going to be viable next patch after the fire nerfs. I guess it's time to build a fire set. Le sigh.

  16. #416
    High Overlord Adeltor's Avatar
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    I'm starting to get tired of you and your constant QQ against one of your own class' specs.
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by zomgDPS View Post
    I want to feel the zomg in my dpspants when I throw pyros at someones face. How do you keep that feeling of 'zomg' in your pants while still nerfing throughput?

    Sig by Shyama!

  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by Adeltor View Post
    I'm starting to get tired of you and your constant QQ against one of your own class' specs.
    Ye well that's kinda the bad side of forums for you, you may not like what someone thinks, but they are entitled to post their own opinnions, as are you.

  18. #418
    But the thing is, vynesta has been posting the same thing every other day, that has to be counted as spam or something.
    Like we get it, you hate fire. We don't need you to remind us everyday no offense, just play any other expect but don't expect to be pulling the same numbers

  19. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    Ye well that's kinda the bad side of forums for you, you may not like what someone thinks, but they are entitled to post their own opinnions, as are you.
    This. If you don't agree, don't comment.

  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by Blugatti View Post
    But the thing is, vynesta has been posting the same thing every other day, that has to be counted as spam or something.
    Like we get it, you hate fire. We don't need you to remind us everyday no offense, just play any other expect but don't expect to be pulling the same numbers
    I've actually started to get some warped enjoyment out of how he tries to shoehorn his fire hate into any subject. My favorite so far is the OP that started a thread asking explicitly "Is the new frost mastery a buff or nerf to frost pve dps?" and his reply was

    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    Yeah, they need to change quite a few things to frost before it can be fully viable. Fire still does need a nerf.
    Like...

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