Actually Fire isn't that much RNG. RNG is maybe if u do WR 100 or 10. But it's not that big that it puts u from the top to the bottom of the meters. With the upcoming change, they'll take away some RNG for sure but skill cap as well and imo way more skill cap than RNG.
So much firemages simply do not know how to build up combustions right. And if they are randomly lucky they're calling it RNG. But for all the argueing only the maybe 10% or less of the players that are doing it constantly right are taken into account. For all the others the RNG with combustion won't change, just the numbers were lower. But as combustions will be less part of the overalldamge this won't count as much as before and therefore it's less rng for them.
Last edited by Abraxis; 2013-08-19 at 10:03 AM.
I kind of understand where the nerfs come from, but honestly I find it ridiculous to hit Fire that hard. I mean, hey it's mage, we are the definition of DPS, all they let us do in a raid is in fact Time Warp and damage, so we really should excel everything that's not mage in return.
Your rights as a consumer begin and end at the point where you choose not to consume, and not where you yourself influence the consumed goods.
Translation: if you don't like a game don't play it.
So u're definitly one of thoes who have no clue how it works..explain to me: how do 9 pyros fit in one ignite?9 Pyros before a Combustion
And who is telling u that u HAVE to fire all pyros before donig combustion?when the last few just won't crit.
So here is a perfect example...u call it rng, i call it not having an idea when/how to use combustion
q.e.d.without even knowing why
Last edited by Abraxis; 2013-08-19 at 10:30 AM.
Vynestra, your mages combustion done 13 million on twins?
Ive seen opening combustions do that on 1 target never mind when spreading to twins. (good rng ofc)
But thats the thing, that nerf doesnt hit the average combustions anywhere near as hard as it decimates the top end ones, its actually why that nerf in a roundabout way is quite effective.
Last edited by AjayxD; 2013-08-19 at 10:55 AM.
What if my opener goes completely south because my last fireball and first pyro in the alter time chain just don't crit, even with heroic cha'ye's and breath up? I'm fairly confident I can take advantage of good RNG if it happens, but what if it doesn't? I have honestly not been able to find any solid answers to that question since MoP released.
I would love to be more consistent with my damage, but I really don't see how I could possibly improve besides building a new computer so my frames don't tank so bad in 25 man. If you know something I don't then please share, because I feel I've run out of options.
Combustion is the only factor where RNG affects our dps though. Rest of the rotation doesn't rely on RNG at all when you're at 35% crit or higher.
That is some not fire specific, and for all classes the same.how do you control it with shit like RPPM
With HU/HS up + all Intproccs Pot & flask...this chance is very low..and even if, u will not end up at the bottom of meters if u playing the fight as intended.What if my opener goes completely south because my last fireball and first pyro in the alter time chain just don't crit
Also i've never claimed that there is no RNG. I said it isn't that much RNG as u often read here.
How can u have 6 Pyros with 0 crits or 8 Pyros with just 2? If u have 2 Pyrocrits in ur Ignite it'll be fine anyway.only crit 0-2 out of my 6-8 pyros
But for example if ur 2 first crit an u'll do all Pyros before hitting combustion so that at least one of those 2 crits, probably both won't count in that ignite, than it's ur fault and no bad RNG.
Last edited by Abraxis; 2013-08-19 at 11:33 AM.
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Yes they've big influence an i think the latest trinket changes whould've been almost enough nerf. But that's something u cannot influence by playstyle.You dodged the RPPM question.
What i meant for example is:
Be aware of crits while chaining Pyros
Have HU/HS up
Skip PoM Pyro if possible
Do combustion not after all Pyros but after crits
And that are things that lower the rng but many many don't even know about things like that.
Think of all raiding firemages out there, not just those who read forums. And the take the ones here that are here for tipps because of not knowing how it works.
Thats what i meant with 10% or less who doing it constantly right. And those i bet have way less rng in combustion than someone who just hit a makro and fire all pyros and then combust.
SOMEONE SEND ME A NEW PROCESSOR/MOBO.
Have a first gen i7, i know what u're talking about. But with some settings lowered and the other hardware being upgraded it's possible. But as u said. That's not RNG that hardware performance. And of course if u doing always all pyros and combust because of FPS, than that is a lack of skill that causes more RNG. (In this special case more lack of hardware as of skill) But u proved what i said.
But after that being said, so isn't it true that doing a good combustion is not just hitting a macro and hoping for good RNG it's something u have more in ur own hands than that.
And that's what i meant.
And if they nerf if that hard they're nerfing the value of doing it the right way constantly because the influence to the overalldamage becomes that much lower. And this is taking away skill cap (and some rng) as well. Because doing it the "simple" chain all pyros without brain and then hitting combustion doesn't really hurt anymore. Or the other way around doing it right wouldn't be rewarded that much anymore and the gap between average und top is getting really smaller which is sad.
Last edited by Abraxis; 2013-08-19 at 12:18 PM.
If Blizzard really needs to keep in combustion as a mechanic for fire, they should roll the Pyro dot and bomb damage back into combustion to help average out bad streaks, and just have ignite's role in combustion be nerfed to something like what is currently on the PTR. It should be rewarding to get the jackpot and take advantage of it, but not super punishing when the stars don't align.
Fat chance of that I guess.
How weak do you actually think combustion is in comparision to other people's cd's (in the ptr state), even at only 20% it does actually compete with others cd's its just that blizzard had made it so you didnt even have to maximise it to get the benefit you should have, so when you did maximise it was absoloutely mind blowingly stupid.
A lot of speccs are getting buffed. RPPM trinkets are getting nerfed, which while they effect everyone, hit Fire hardest due to the double dipping nature of Combustion.
As I've said fight mechanics are changing and need to be learned. Then there's the fact that Fire's crit scaling is leveling out AND there isn't as much crit to be gained this tier. Many changes I didn't even mention, and you want to just port over some numbers from ONE change like there is ANYTHING valid to conclude from it. Sorry, but this is a faulty example and shows us nothing useful.
I'm sure you cherry picked the Twins fight too because the numbers could better support your case.
That fight has a lot of adds that can have Combustion cleaved onto them and inflate the value of Combustion. I can sometimes get a huge chunk of my damage from Combustion if the stars align(trinket procs, HU+HS,AT, Pyro crits, tank pulling a fresh group of adds over).
Last edited by Methusula; 2013-08-19 at 06:08 PM.
13M damage combustion represents 50% of ignite. 100% of ignite would thus be 26M. And thus 20% = 5.2M, in other words 13M * 0.4
Methusala, you are giving me the impression that you are panicking about the situation. You speak of relevance, but then your comparisons are irrelevant. Truth be told, how other classes got buffed have no impact on our class. 99% of the mages will not change class for 5.4, they might switch specs, but they will still play a mage. It has 0 impact on our mage spec decision. All that matters to us is how Fire, Frost and Arcane compare to themselves in 5.4
And judging from the fights so far in SOO, they are very similar to TOT. So TOT stats are also very reliable.
Last edited by Solidpat; 2013-08-19 at 06:10 PM. Reason: typo