1. #1

    Going Fire or Frost (NOT 5.4 speculation)

    So I decided to give fire a try, since I have about 38% crit buffed. However during jin'rokh I fell in dps considerably, 40-50k dps, from what I was doing as frost. Now granted I am still pretty new to fire so I expected a bit of a skill dip in dps until I got used to it, however that number seems to big of a loss from just not having fine tuned everything yet. Here's a link to my armory, and I wanted to get your opinions if I should stay frost or not. The armory has me set up in fire spec/gear.

    Note that I do NOT have 4 set or cha-ye's trinket. I know people say around 35%-40% crit go fire, but I don't know if not having these pieces of gear push back the possibility.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ntangel/simple
    Last edited by Tyrantangel; 2013-09-05 at 01:48 PM.

  2. #2
    I was in similar position a while ago (but with 40% crit buffed, t15 set and legendary meta) and switched back to frost - fire's dps was considerably lower than frost for me, let alone consistency. I recently went back fire with 48%+ crit buffed and its good now.
    IMHO, fire is worse than frost until you have 45%+ cit buffed.

  3. #3
    Thanks for the reply. Yea I feel like I might have enough crit if I had cha-ye's and the 4set to make it worth it, but it just seems lacking without it.

  4. #4
    It's frustrating that this is how it works. I've always wanted to play Fire but I'm really just LFR'ing it week to week. Some classes have specs that just start to shine at a certain iLvl/stat level and that's great, but Fire and Fury are the two I've experienced that are just not even remotely enjoyable when undergeared.

    Just a peeve. Good luck getting the last items to make Fire work for you! The loot gods have continued to frown on me, but I'm looking forward to the drop rate buff next week.

  5. #5
    Blademaster Velk's Avatar
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    This thread is basically my life story for the past 2 weeks.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Velkyn/simple

    I have about 44.70% Crit Buffed / 4P T15 / Meta, And I basically have my rotation down. Thing is, From my experience Fire does give some more DPS (Obviously) But man-oh-man, when you don't get lucky you hit the ground hard. I've been thinking about going back frost since It is more consistent, It's not that I don't get fire or don't know how to use my CD's, It's just a personal preference thing going on.

    But I mean in the end, People are saying Arcane might be the spec for 5.4 so I'll have to wait a week and see what I will be doing. All I know is I don't really like fires inconsistency

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Velk View Post
    This thread is basically my life story for the past 2 weeks.

    I have about 44.70% Crit Buffed / 4P T15 / Meta, And I basically have my rotation down. Thing is, From my experience Fire does give some more DPS (Obviously) But man-oh-man, when you don't get lucky you hit the ground hard. I've been thinking about going back frost since It is more consistent, It's not that I don't get fire or don't know how to use my CD's, It's just a personal preference thing going on.

    But I mean in the end, People are saying Arcane might be the spec for 5.4 so I'll have to wait a week and see what I will be doing. All I know is I don't really like fires inconsistency
    Fire on live right now is all about knowing how to use combustion really. If you get combustions that hit for 40K or less, you'll drop a lot. But when you get a 100K+ combustion which is normally what you should be getting in a decent amount of heroic gear you'll spike really high. For 5.4 pretty sure fire will still be the way to go. Just mastery will be trash now and combustion won't matter nearly as much. Arcane will be solid next tier, but a lot of fights require too much movement for it to be really effective over fire on progression.

    at the OP: link to armory didn't work for me. But keep in mind you should be going Fire<Haste until 5036 breakpoint<Mastery<Haste after breakpoint. Try to get 4pc ASAP aswell since it's a huge dps increase.
    Last edited by Fury; 2013-09-05 at 01:41 PM. Reason: edited it to give op some advice

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Fury View Post
    Fire on live right now is all about knowing how to use combustion really. If you get combustions that hit for 40K or less, you'll drop a lot. But when you get a 100K+ combustion which is normally what you should be getting in a decent amount of heroic gear you'll spike really high. For 5.4 pretty sure fire will still be the way to go. Just mastery will be trash now and combustion won't matter nearly as much. Arcane will be solid next tier, but a lot of fights require too much movement for it to be really effective over fire on progression.

    at the OP: link to armory didn't work for me. But keep in mind you should be going Fire<Haste until 5036 breakpoint<Mastery<Haste after breakpoint. Try to get 4pc ASAP aswell since it's a huge dps increase.
    I edited the armory link, seems to work now. I think I hate that the most about fire currently, with combustion being the make or break of the spec. But I play the spec that makes the numbers so I'm trying to work with it. 5.4 will probably end up being fire as the best spec, I just don't know at what gear point that becomes. I don't have the gear to really test that sort of outcome.

  8. #8
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrantangel View Post
    So I decided to give fire a try, since I have about 38% crit buffed. However during jin'rokh I fell in dps considerably, 40-50k dps, from what I was doing as frost. Now granted I am still pretty new to fire so I expected a bit of a skill dip in dps until I got used to it, however that number seems to big of a loss from just not having fine tuned everything yet. Here's a link to my armory, and I wanted to get your opinions if I should stay frost or not. The armory has me set up in fire spec/gear.

    Note that I do NOT have 4 set or cha-ye's trinket. I know people say around 35%-40% crit go fire, but I don't know if not having these pieces of gear push back the possibility.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ntangel/simple
    If you enjoy Frost and do better as Frost, why not stay Frost?

    If you're only looking to maximize DPS and nothing else, I'd probably say Arcane will be the absolute best next tier if you can actually manage the movement bullshit; Fire will be once you get well geared.

    I'm going Frost purely because:
    - I like it; it's fun to me
    - Consistent DPS; no stupid RNG bullshit on being first or worst
    - Being the absolute best DPS doesn't matter to me; Frost brings slows/root utility that actually helps out occasionally (You'd be surprised what a ranged pet Freeze does on some fights in your guilds...)
    *- It isn't Arcane

    * By far the most important one

    Retired Veteran Raider: [T14] 10/16H, [T15] 12/13H, [T16] 7/14H
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    If you enjoy Frost and do better as Frost, why not stay Frost?

    If you're only looking to maximize DPS and nothing else, I'd probably say Arcane will be the absolute best next tier if you can actually manage the movement bullshit; Fire will be once you get well geared.

    I'm going Frost purely because:
    - I like it; it's fun to me
    - Consistent DPS; no stupid RNG bullshit on being first or worst
    - Being the absolute best DPS doesn't matter to me; Frost brings slows/root utility that actually helps out occasionally (You'd be surprised what a ranged pet Freeze does on some fights in your guilds...)
    *- It isn't Arcane

    * By far the most important one
    I can enjoy the spec but I am a min/maxer, if I can scavenge 2-4k dps by making an alteration I usually will. I'd rather play a spec I dislike than under perform.

  10. #10
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrantangel View Post
    I can enjoy the spec but I am a min/maxer, if I can scavenge 2-4k dps by making an alteration I usually will. I'd rather play a spec I dislike than under perform.
    Then in your case, stick with Frost atm until you get a bit more gear, then try Arcane. Focus on Mastery>Haste pieces (as they'll help you while Frost anyways).

    If you get a lot more gear, try Fire. Even with the nerf to Combustion, it's overall still a high DPS spec because it scales great, just, Arcane will outscale it (its "nerf" is the amount of movement)

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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrantangel View Post
    I can enjoy the spec but I am a min/maxer, if I can scavenge 2-4k dps by making an alteration I usually will. I'd rather play a spec I dislike than under perform.
    At 526, unless you are super pro at fire, frost will be at the very least equivalent, possibly better, and almost definitely more consistent. I've gotten myself up to 540 and I still have some pretty bad luck streaks, and can't beat equally geared rogues.

    I will say spiking 1.15 million dps on council this week was pretty fun tho for that one second I was doing that much dps ^.^

  12. #12
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyromelter View Post
    At 526, unless you are super pro at fire
    Gonna stop you here because there is no "super pro at fire". Fire has one of, if not, THE lowest skill cap of any spec in the game; it's a mindless rotation that anyone can master. The only thing that really differentiates different (Fire) Mages is gear and pure dumb luck.

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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Gonna stop you here because there is no "super pro at fire". Fire has one of, if not, THE lowest skill cap of any spec in the game; it's a mindless rotation that anyone can master. The only thing that really differentiates different (Fire) Mages is gear and pure dumb luck.
    ROFL. Says the frost mage.

  14. #14
    Mechagnome Zenny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Gonna stop you here because there is no "super pro at fire". Fire has one of, if not, THE lowest skill cap of any spec in the game; it's a mindless rotation that anyone can master. The only thing that really differentiates different (Fire) Mages is gear and pure dumb luck.
    That's describes all the 3 Mage specs currently. (Except the luck part, that remains Fire)

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Gonna stop you here because there is no "super pro at fire". Fire has one of, if not, THE lowest skill cap of any spec in the game; it's a mindless rotation that anyone can master. The only thing that really differentiates different (Fire) Mages is gear and pure dumb luck.
    Not true. There are many things one can do to min max fire.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Gonna stop you here because there is no "super pro at fire". Fire has one of, if not, THE lowest skill cap of any spec in the game; it's a mindless rotation that anyone can master. The only thing that really differentiates different (Fire) Mages is gear and pure dumb luck.
    Alright, I'll bite on this. I went through your logs, and I'm going to go ahead and assume you don't care to try maxing your dps. To make a statment how "this and that is low skillcap" when you haven't spent the hours and gold practicing and tweaking things to squeeze every bit out of your spec and rotation, is dumb at best.

    Any mage spec is easy to do well with in comparison to some other classes, but if you want to go into skillcaps you better try actually getting there yourself before saying it's easy.

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