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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Vykina View Post
    RoP Arcane is practically unplayable on most encounters, you'd have to go with IW mostly which isn't gonna be better than Fire.
    Is it really that bad? How about haste invocation? I just can't see it being that much movement where it's that bad lol. I don't see how they can just neglect arcane like that. Q_Q.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    Is it really that bad? How about haste invocation? I just can't see it being that much movement where it's that bad lol. I don't see how they can just neglect arcane like that. Q_Q.
    Arcane has been neglected all expansion. A turret spec in a raid environment which is constantly demanding more movement and attention to abilities doesnt mesh well with it's playstyle.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost1129 View Post
    Arcane has been neglected all expansion. A turret spec in a raid environment which is constantly demanding more movement and attention to abilities doesnt mesh well with it's playstyle.
    I do fine in tot though...lol


    I feel like arcane will be the same as this current tier..It'll be viable if you can figure out how to minimize your movement on every fight.

    New blink glyph is 1 charge every 15 seconds up to 2 charges...with blazing speed it'll make getting from RoP A to RoP B much quicker. And be more viable for heavy movement fights.
    Last edited by Vynestra; 2013-07-15 at 07:38 PM.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    I do fine in tot though...lol
    Can you define "fine"?

    Are you putting up 230k dps on a fight like Durumu?
    Last edited by Scerick; 2013-07-15 at 07:48 PM.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Scerick View Post
    Can you define "fine"?

    Are you putting up 230k dps on Durumu?
    No but either is our fire mage. Because neither of us are at that gear level. I'm not in a 10/13 H guild. I'm in a 4/13 H guild. I just joined, and we've been having recruiting issues. So I don't really have a lot of heroic gear yet, or the i600 cloak just yet.

    I mean your singling out one of two fights that I underperform as arcane. Durumu and lei shen, and lei shen I do pretty well because of the aoe. Otherwise durumu is the only fight i'd say I don't do "fine" at.

    However most other fights I can compete with our fire mage except maybe council? Also our fire mage has 8 more ilvls than me, overall we end up pretty close dps wise, if not me beating him...So..

  6. #186
    Fair enough.

    What's your ilvl, dps on best fight, and logs comparing you to your Fire mage?

    Not looking to see you "put your money where your mouth is", would just like to see a fair comparison. We're only 6/13 heroic so not too far ahead of your guild.

    Edit:

    For the sake of comparison:

    Ji-Kun through Dark Animus: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8gcnn9zfdaqprano/
    My Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...erick/advanced

    Edit: Edit:

    I also picked Durumu because T16 is supposedly more movement heavy than T15 is.
    Last edited by Scerick; 2013-07-15 at 07:56 PM.

  7. #187
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    Since there are finally fire nerfs on the PTR, can I close this thread?

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    Since there are finally fire nerfs on the PTR, can I close this thread?
    Can you maybe change the title instead of having us move the current discussion to a new one?

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    Since there are finally fire nerfs on the PTR, can I close this thread?
    You could rename it to "Fire nerfs on PTR" instead.


    Quote Originally Posted by Scerick View Post
    Fair enough.

    What's your ilvl, dps on best fight, and logs comparing you to your Fire mage?

    Not looking to see you "put your money where your mouth is", would just like to see a fair comparison. We're only 6/13 heroic so not too far ahead of your guild.

    Edit:

    For the sake of comparison:

    Ji-Kun through Dark Animus: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8gcnn9zfdaqprano/
    My Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...erick/advanced

    Edit: Edit:

    I also picked Durumu because T16 is supposedly more movement heavy than T15 is.

    We aren't doing h ji-kun 25 yet lol. Since we haven't had the people. Theres not really any wol fights you linked I can compare since we've been doing normal ji-kun rather than heroic.

    While you did pull 230k on durumu is that a weekly thing or just a really really good parse? Because fire obviously because of rng can have a really good parse, that's out of the normal dps spectrum for a fire mage.
    Last edited by Vynestra; 2013-07-15 at 08:10 PM.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    While you did pull 230k on durumu is that a weekly thing or just a really really good parse? Because fire obviously because of rng can have a really good parse, that's out of the normal dps spectrum for a fire mage.
    That's pretty par for the course. I switched to 5036 Haste -> Mastery for this week, and had a marginal increase in DPS, but I'm nearly at 18k crit rating so the "RNG" aspect is nearly gone.

    Can you at least post your best fights vs the fire mage? I'm sure I can still pull useful information out of it.

    Edit: There are also 3 other normal fights linked there.
    Last edited by Scerick; 2013-07-15 at 08:17 PM.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Scerick View Post
    That's pretty par for the course. I switched to 5036 Haste -> Mastery for this week, and had a noticeable increase in DPS, but I'm nearly at 18k crit rating so the "RNG" aspect is nearly gone.

    Can you at least post your best fights vs the fire mage? I'm sure I can still pull useful information out of it.

    Here are a few however he wasn't there for this weeks normal clears (since we lacked people for heroics, again)

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...8346#Cherlloyd

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...5444#Cherlloyd

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...3400#Cherlloyd

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=4296&e=4609 (I was an idiot and didn't have mage armor up lol....)

    I'd post iron qon but I got screwed over with positioning in p2 and p3...so I ended up standing doing nothing out of range of the boss.

    He also raped me on twins this week, the other twins I linked was my better parse.

    Shouldn't have bothered linking primordius, that fight...is not a good dps indicator.


    Our gear hasn't changed too much between the parses, we had an off-week for 4th of july as well so. Not much changed. He is however 8 ilvls ahead at i537 to my i529.
    Last edited by Vynestra; 2013-07-15 at 08:22 PM.

  12. #192
    Thank you Vynestra.

    Not to discredit your performance - at all. Looking over your logs it looks like you do very well at a glance for Arcane.

    That being said, as I suspected the fire mage in your guild doesn't put up the numbers his character is capable of, which I think may have artificially boosted arcane's perceived performance. That being said, you are doing much more than our Frost mage (also why I asked for your logs) is doing on a lot of those fights.

  13. #193
    Seriously, I'd love them to just do a flat nerf on CM instead of this bullcrap. Huge QoL nerf. As if we didn't have enough un-fun bullshit in our class already (I'm looking at you, invocation).

  14. #194
    Close this thread please... since there are fire nerf's on ptr this make no sence...

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by invictusordead View Post
    Close this thread please... since there are fire nerf's on ptr this make no sence...

    Or rename it to "Fire nerfs on PTR" lol


    Quote Originally Posted by Scerick View Post
    Thank you Vynestra.

    Not to discredit your performance - at all. Looking over your logs it looks like you do very well at a glance for Arcane.

    That being said, as I suspected the fire mage in your guild doesn't put up the numbers his character is capable of, which I think may have artificially boosted arcane's perceived performance. That being said, you are doing much more than our Frost mage (also why I asked for your logs) is doing on a lot of those fights.

    I must say you are basically a full tier of gear ahead of me (13 ilvls) While you seem to do very well, I believe if I had your kind of gear, I could be pulling really high numbers as well, I wouldn't be pulling 230k on durumu no. But I would say I could throw up very competitive numbers on other fights.

    I think arcane can compete with fire, top mages have said that overall their dps is about the same. Fire just seems to be more popular really. I don't think it's a question of if arcane can compete this tier, it's a question of if arcane can compete NEXT tier.



    EDIT: Also I used to be fire, and switched to arcane because I just couldn't pull the numbers I needed, I can't be 100% amazing at fire, I find I do better dps as arcane. Fire has a higher skill cap in the rotation and more rng, where arcane is important to do your rotation correctly, arcane is more about minimizing your movement. Which I can do better than maximizing fire's skill cap dps.
    Last edited by Vynestra; 2013-07-15 at 08:39 PM.

  16. #196
    Thread complaining about fire mages?

    How did I know it was you, Cher? :P

    Also as others said there's been no tuning pass yet.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    I must say you are basically a full tier of gear ahead of me (13 ilvls) While you seem to do very well, I believe if I had your kind of gear, I could be pulling really high numbers as well, I wouldn't be pulling 230k on durumu no. But I would say I could throw up very competitive numbers on other fights.

    I think arcane can compete with fire, top mages have said that overall their dps is about the same. Fire just seems to be more popular really. I don't think it's a question of if arcane can compete this tier, it's a question of if arcane can compete NEXT tier.
    Yep, completely agree. Unless something crazy changes for Arcane I have a sneaky suspicion that the gap will narrow or Arcane may even slightly pull ahead.

    Like I said at a first glance you definitely put up some good numbers, especially for your iLvL. I mainly wanted to see your logs to see what the Fire mage was doing (you are by far the better mage).

    Would love to chat sometime, in real time to theorycraft if you're up for it, PM me your battle tag and I'll add you when I get home.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Saiyoran View Post
    Thread complaining about fire mages?

    How did I know it was you, Cher? :P

    Also as others said there's been no tuning pass yet.
    Nope, but there was a fire nerf today =P. Let the nerfs begin ! And buff arcane!

  19. #199
    So have we missed the "spell change" phase of the PTR? I mean, is there still hope they will change some of our spells or do we only have the number twicking patch to look forward to? Looking at the patch note mages have gotten the least amount of attention, no question about it. Still hoping for a lvl 90 talent redesign.

  20. #200
    we're not getting a lvl90 redesign this patch.

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